HF Habs: Trade Proposal Thread #88: 2024-25 Season

[salbutera]

He scored 50 points as a 19 years old and still on a 50 points pace this year with people whining about him and not playing his best. He is on par with most 19-20 years old high picks in the league. How can someone think he ‘’stalled’’ in becoming more than a 50 points guy lol.

MacKinnon 4-years into his NHL career was called a 1OA bust because he couldn’t match his rookie year of 63pts….

Instant gratification society = zero patience

 

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

What are you talkimg about? There is nothing to ride out yet. he has only played 24 games and many with guys playing like crap. He may not be 100% and he is only 20 years old. If he looks the same in a couple of years it is time to worry.

Couple years?

If he continues this will be the 2nd year of him being underwhelming. Well, almost 2.5 years out of the 3 as an NHLer.

There's no real concern at this point, but in another 58 games if he's still as underwhelming then there's some concern.

If he's still the same player in next season, too then there should be a huge concern.

Habs are closing in on where he started to get going last year, so hopefully he does.

Would be nice to not need 1/3rd of the season before he gets going, but it is what it is.

 

[Habssince89]

MacKinnon 4-years into his NHL career was called a 1OA bust because he couldn’t match his rookie year of 63pts….

Instant gratification society = zero patience

100% agree. We need to learn our lesson and stop burning young players at the stake for being less than ppg monsters

 

[SlafySZN]

I don't remember ever reading that about Bedard by any insider or scout publicly. He was always projected to be a tier below him.

The kid was called generational.

But that’s besides the point. A projection is just that, most time. Doesn’t mean some can’t surpass it or become less.

 

[Runner77]

I'd do that too. I would be ok with a Dach - Kaako swap, too, although we'd have too many wingers.

Yes on Newhook, no on Dach for me.

I think he can still be the player he was pre-injury. However, patience is not a Habs fan trademark. If Habs can get Kaako for a Newhook, that's the ticket but Rags would probably want to bleed Gorton so there would have to be a premium added.

 

[Kobe Armstrong]

100% agree. We need to learn our lesson and stop burning young players at the stake for being less than ppg monsters

Remember last year when nobody here would give up a 2nd + for Lafreniere

 

[Rapala]

Yes on Newhook, no on Dach for me.

I think he can still be the player he was pre-injury. However, patience is not a Habs fan trademark. If Habs can get Kaako for a Newhook, that's the ticket but Rags would probably want to bleed Gorton so there would have to be a premium added.

I'm so on the fence with Kirby.
We've seen far too many players never gain the level of explosiveness they had prior to knee surgery.
I'm hoping he can re-invent his game a bit to overcome some of those issues.
It's too early to tell in his case if he'll remain hobbled but the stops and starts are killing him right now.
The thing is he should have the vision and aptitude to overcome his handicap.
Maybe get him to watch some of the later career Jagr and Vanek videos to show how they cut down the ice to make plays despite being slow.

 

[Rapala]

Remember last year when nobody here would give up a 2nd + for Lafreniere

No

 

[Runner77]

I'm so on the fence with Kirby.
We've seen far too many players never gain the level of explosiveness they had prior to knee surgery.
I'm hoping he can re-invent his game a bit to overcome some of those issues.
It's too early to tell in his case if he'll remain hobbled but the stops and starts are killing him right now.
The thing is he should have the vision and aptitude to overcome his handicap.
Maybe get him to watch some of the later career Jagr and Vanek videos to show how they cut down the ice despite being slow.

Didn't we say Markov would never get back to his pre-injury form after major knee surgery and yet ... he was much older than Dach when he went through it. Not all surgeries or their fallouts are created equal but there has been a lot of progress made in that specialization, so outcomes should be more favorable than at Markov's time.

Regardless, Dach does not appear to have any physical limitations (that were made public as far as I'm aware) and one reporter who has been observing Dach closely (Patrick Friolet, who watches him at practise, from the press box during games and who speaks to him in the dressing room) opined that his issues are mental, not physical. He may be playing scared or have a fear of re-injury, which takes time to overcome, but that's just an observation -- we don't know for sure.

 

[Kobe Armstrong]

No

Ask your boy @WeThreeKings

 

[vokiel]

Yes on Newhook, no on Dach for me.

I think he can still be the player he was pre-injury. However, patience is not a Habs fan trademark. If Habs can get Kaako for a Newhook, that's the ticket but Rags would probably want to bleed Gorton so there would have to be a premium added.

Funny thing is I think Newhook is the one that has the most chances of translating potential into progress. Dach seems to be too lazy and not committed enough to ever have another stretch of games where he looks like his draft rank' promises.

 

[Runner77]

Funny thing is I think Newhook is the one that has the most chances of translating potential into progress. Dach seems to be too lazy and not committed enough to ever have another stretch of games where he looks like his draft rank' promises.

I like Dach's upside more, if he returns to pre-injury form. That's the X-Factor, whether he can get there. I don't have illusions based on his draft rank but am just looking for what we saw two years ago. Dach has a size and reach advantage over Newhook, who looks to me to just be a north-south player who can motor but who doesn't slot well in any particular line.

 

[Kobe Armstrong]

Funny thing is I think Newhook is the one that has the most chances of translating potential into progress. Dach seems to be too lazy and not committed enough to ever have another stretch of games where he looks like his draft rank' promises.

Dach has a bad wrist and a bad knee. Any expectations of what he could be during his draft year or his first year with us should be thrown out the window now.

He will need to relearn how to play the game in order to be effective with less agility and strength, something Monahan could’ve helped with.

 

[morhilane]

Exactly the difference between Slaf and Tkachuk is Slaf wants to and is being asked to have a defensive consciousness.
I'm not surprised Slaf is having difficulty balancing his game between the loose game of last season and accountability this year.
I see signs of improvement and once he trusts and has confidence in his own instincts he will play faster hockey.

The first thing Slaf needs to fix his is shift length. He looked the best this season when his average shifts were around 40 seconds. With Dach/Laine, he's at 1 minutes shift on average and he's totally spent the 2nd half of it. So are his linemates, who could also do with shorter shifts...

Tkachuk's shift length are on average 35-40 seconds long. That's what big guy like that are supposed to be playing. As a whole, Ottawa all plays shorter shifts, it's a real problem with the Habs and they don't have the excuse of being stuck in their own end anymore.

 

[ReHabs]

The first thing Slaf needs to fix his is shift length. He looked the best this season when his average shifts were around 40 seconds. With Dach/Laine, he's at 1 minutes shift on average and he's totally spent the 2nd half of it. So are his linemates, who could also do with shorter shifts...

Tkachuk's shift length are on average 35-40 seconds long. That's what big guy like that are supposed to be playing. As a whole, Ottawa all plays shorter shifts, it's a real problem with the Habs and they don't have the excuse of being stuck in their own end anymore.

That’s on coaching and team discipline as much as it is on the player

I think it’s also on the defenders. We have bad defenders in aggregate.

 

[vokiel]

I like Dach's upside more, if he returns to pre-injury form. That's the X-Factor, whether he can get there. I don't have illusions based on his draft rank but am just looking for what we saw two years ago. Dach has a size and reach advantage over Newhook, who looks to me to just be a north-south player who can motor but who doesn't slot well in any particular line.

What you saw then seems to be an exception due to line configurations advantaging him. Other than this bleep, Dach has always looked like he had questionable IQ, not enough to be a center to be precise. Probability of reaching his upside is much lower also due to repeated injuries.

Well in any case, it's up to the fanbase trying to acquire either of them.

 

[Paddy17]

The first thing Slaf needs to fix his is shift length. He looked the best this season when his average shifts were around 40 seconds. With Dach/Laine, he's at 1 minutes shift on average and he's totally spent the 2nd half of it. So are his linemates, who could also do with shorter shifts...

Tkachuk's shift length are on average 35-40 seconds long. That's what big guy like that are supposed to be playing. As a whole, Ottawa all plays shorter shifts, it's a real problem with the Habs and they don't have the excuse of being stuck in their own end anymore.

The shifts are long because they're hemmed in their zone for most of it.

 

[Paddy17]

Didn't we say Markov would never get back to his pre-injury form after major knee surgery and yet ... he was much older than Dach when he went through it. Not all surgeries or their fallouts are created equal but there has been a lot of progress made in that specialization, so outcomes should be more favorable than at Markov's time.

Regardless, Dach does not appear to have any physical limitations (that were made public as far as I'm aware) and one reporter who has been observing Dach closely (Patrick Friolet, who watches him at practise, from the press box during games and who speaks to him in the dressing room) opined that his issues are mental, not physical. He may be playing scared or have a fear of re-injury, which takes time to overcome, but that's just an observation -- we don't know for sure.

If you watch Dach play, the only "physical problem" he has may be slower foot speed and lateral agility. That can affect your game, but his problems are much bigger than that. He used to be a puck hound and really tenacious. He isn't anymore. He has trouble receving passes, fumbles and mishandles the puck a lot, and can't seem to make good passes either. That's all confidence.

He looks nothing like the player he was. That's concerning but we'll give it 20 more games before getting really worried.

 

[RationalExpectations]

100% agree. We need to learn our lesson and stop burning young players at the stake for being less than ppg monsters

Which young player on the Habs was burnt because he was not a PPG guy over the years ?

 

[HuGort]

I'd swap Newhook for Kaako if NYR were interested.

I would probably go this trade.

 

[morhilane]

That’s on coaching and team discipline as much as it is on the player

I think it’s also on the defenders. We have bad defenders in aggregate.

Slaf was taking shorter shift while playing with Gallagher, he's pretty much just following his linemates. And I think it's clear the coaches don't give a crap by now, Habs line-change have been ridiculous since the season started.

Anyway, this is the trade thread. Althougth, it bring up an interesting point, regardless of the acquisition the Habs might do, if the line-change continue to be crap, nobody will really look good unless they have amazing stamina.

 

[Heffyhoof]

Ottawa totally should’ve traded Tkachuk at 20 years old, when he scored 44 points or when he scored 36 points in 56 games. Was totally destined to not be better.

Every team develop and let their young players mature, the habs needs to be different and trade them all before they’re even close to their peak!

But then would want to ‘’bet’’ on a player from another team that had a similar season at 21 that Slaf had as a 19 years old… doesn’t make much sense.

I'd ignore anyone that wants to dump Slaf (haters happy to pretend to be right), but doubly so anyone who says Slaf for Byfield. He's got more points on a worse team. Trolls abound.

 

[Andy]

Two weeks ago someone proposed Hutson in a trade, now I see Slaf proposal. Y,all are some of the most impatient people imaginable

 

[vokiel]

Two weeks ago someone proposed Hutson in a trade, now I see Slaf proposal. Y,all are some of the most impatient people imaginable

Folks aren't asking to trade them, they're gauging their worth in hypothetical proposals. It's not the same.

 

[CHfan1]

Montreal currently has the 5th best penalty kill this season, but what does it look like next season.

Currently their top 3 penalty kill forwards (by time on ice per game) are Evans, Dvorak, and Armia, who are all unrestricted free agents. I think they might resign Evans but let Dvorak and Armia go (maybe at the trade deadline). Savard, their leading defenceman for penalty kill time on ice is also a UFA (but I think Guhle’s ice time will be increased next season on the PK).

Who plays the PK next season at forward, especially if all 3 forwards move on? Will it be Anderson, Beck, and Suzuki, or are they going to have to add someone in the offseason.