HF Habs: Trade Proposal Thread #87: 2024 Season Finale

[HabbyGuy]

Just so you know I've always scrutinized your posts excessively when I come across them...


Just Sayin

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[Rapala]

LOLOLOL
Zappa perfect just perfect.

 

[417]

My posts have become the object of excess scrutiny and that translates into limited posting freedom. If the individual or individuals doing this want(s) to contact me, I’d love to know what I’ve been doing wrong.

#FreeRunner77

 

[jaffy27]

Liquid bad assets, make a trade for the future, develop kids.

Start clearing the bottom 6.
None of this should be from the UFA

What’s your time frame for success?

I like your idea of cleaning out the bottom 6…I like Roy, Newhook and Evans there…..I’d hope Florian, Tuch and Beck could round out that part of the roster….

Dvorak, Armia and Savard will be shown the door by trade deadline I’m sure.

I’m not too keen on trading Matheson for a pick, Matheson is a proven commodity and could certainly fetch us a top 6 forward if KH chooses to go this path.

This team needs to start progressing and winning or we will be stuck in Arizona purgatory of loser mentality and always picking between 5 and 15 without ever moving forward.

 

[417]

Our rebuild is going well, but if we want to reach the upper echelon of teams in 3-5 years from now we can’t afford to mess up this draft and we also can’t afford to pass up on an opportunity to unload a quality veteran that can land you a piece that will better fit your core’s championship window.

Agreed.,,all the more reason to make sure you're not selling him for cents on the dollar.

The Tampa Bay Lightnig, desperate for a top 4 Dman to extend their window, just traded a 2nd & 7th round pick for the corpse of Ryan McDonagh.

Matheson's an important trade chip, he should be viewed as such...not someone we're just trying to discard cause we really, really, really want Demidov AND Catton/Iginla/Sennecke.

 

[The Great Weal]

1) McGroarty was drafted 14th OA last year and had a great year. We aren't getting him with 26+Harris/Barron.
2) There is no reason for New Jersey to trade for Matheson. One team that would make sense is Utah but I'm not sure what they would realistically offer.

 

[McGuires Corndog]

Agreed.,,all the more reason to make sure you're not selling him for cents on the dollar.

The Tampa Bay Lightnig, desperate for a top 4 Dman to extend their window, just traded a 2nd & 7th round pick for the corpse of Ryan McDonagh.

Matheson's an important trade chip, he should be viewed as such...not someone we're just trying to discard cause we really, really, really want Demidov AND Catton/Iginla/Sennecke.

I think Hughes is smart, and likely holds the same opinion.

I can’t see him just straight up swapping him for a pick. I imagine he’ll look to go for more NHL-ready and assured assets.

 

[jaffy27]

Trading Matheson is part of the next step, whether that’s this offseason , the trade deadline or next offseason.. you have to trade him. He’s going to be 32 by the time he needs to be re-signed and if our prospects are as good as we all hope and need them to be, there isn’t room for him.

If you opt not to trade him this offseason to shelter the young D men for another season, I can give that a pass.

But guess what, if you get to the end of the season and you think you need to keep Matheson because Hutson or Reinbacher aren’t taking the next steps… your rebuild may already be in danger.

Not only do you have to make the right moves, you also have to have a bit of luck. Right now all of our eggs are in the D basket, and if those “big 3” bust it sets us back. A lot.

Our rebuild is going well, but if we want to reach the upper echelon of teams in 3-5 years from now we can’t afford to mess up this draft and we also can’t afford to pass up on an opportunity to unload a quality veteran that can land you a piece that will better fit your core’s championship window.

Nice …

You mention that our young D could possibly bust, not progress and this spells danger as they are not progressing ….. yet, you are ready to trade Matheson for a pick that’s also not a proven player and could potentially bust, especially in that 10-15 range.

Matheson will need to be moved, sure, but not for a pick. Move a proven player for a ….proven player.

 

[habsfan891]

1) McGroarty was drafted 14th OA last year and had a great year. We aren't getting him with 26+Harris/Barron.
2) There is no reason for New Jersey to trade for Matheson. One team that would make sense is Utah but I'm not sure what they would realistically offer.

I agree it will take more than that but I'd love to grab him this week before the draft to open options at 5 a little bit more

 

[SwiftyHab]

Here but no longer posting regularly and it’s probably for the best.

You and others are doing a great job keeping exchanges interesting and that’s all that really matters.

Hope everything’s ok

 

[Sterling Archer]

1) McGroarty was drafted 14th OA last year and had a great year. We aren't getting him with 26+Harris/Barron.
2) There is no reason for New Jersey to trade for Matheson. One team that would make sense is Utah but I'm not sure what they would realistically offer.

Apparently Pesce going to Devils. No need or place for Matheson there.

 

[BoneHutson]

Nice …

You mention that our young D could possibly bust, not progress and this spells danger as they are not progressing ….. yet, you are ready to trade Matheson for a pick that’s also not a proven player and could potentially bust, especially in that 10-15 range.

Matheson will need to be moved, sure, but not for a pick. Move a proven player for a ….proven player.

You can just sign Alex Carrier if you trade Matheson. No need to pass on the opportunity to add another core F only for the sake of keeping a veteran on the team jc. Its freaking ridiculous how people overrate the importance of vets. Savard, Carrier would be enough. Even Savard alone imo. Its way more essential for this team’s future to add an extra top 6 player.

And how can you be so sure that Matheson is an awesome vet to have with your young players? Ffs he wouldnt even pass the puck to our most important young player on the pp because he seemingly thought shooting through 3 sets of shinpad was more of winning move.

And theres absolutely no upside in keeping Matheson until his term is finished. You either lose him for nothing OR overpay him and ruin your cap structure for the next 6-7 years. People are falling in love with players and its plain idiotic.

 

[Captain Mountain]

Yes, the Penguins completely misevaluated not only Jeff Petry, but Mike Matheson. Hughes fleeced the Pens, I don't think that's necessarily reflective of Matheson's value or what he's become for the Habs.

You don't like the Chiarot example, use the host of other Dmen who have been traded in recent years. Hell, just look at this past deadline, Chris Tanev, Erik Johnson, Joel Edmunson went for a 3rd and a 5th for God's sake lol.

I'm not sure what you're arguing here, that the difference between a top 10 pick and a 3rd and 5th is insignificant? That Tanev is analogous to Matheson.

Except this season past season, looked a lot like Matheson's first year in Montreal and I suspect that if he's here again this year and is healthy, his numbers are going to look very similar.

Of course, most NHL teams wouldn't look at Matheson as a 25+ min, 60+ point Dman they need, but I think there's quite a bit who would say that there's a player I can plug into my top 4, who won't cost me a lot in salary, whose productive, is one of the NHL's best skaters.

Like come on man lol i'm not Matheson's biggest fan...but we're watching a Stanley Cup Final where there's guys like Philip Broberg, Darnell Nurse, Dmitry Kulikov, OEL and Mikkola playing top 4 mins.

Can we stop acting like Matheson is some scrub please?

In the playoffs, Philip Broberg is averaging 15:55 minutes a game, Darnell Nurse is averaging 18:53 minutes a game, Dmitry Kulikov is averaging 13:51 minutes a game, OEL is averaging 15:23 minutes a game and Mikkola is averaging 18:42 minutes a game. Only two of those guys are actually playing top-4 minutes and those are play a style of game that Matheson does not play.

And I am one of the more pro-Matheson posters on this board and have consistently defended both his on-ice play and keeping him on the team. I am not treating him as a scrub, I'm looking around and practically considering teams that would seriously value him. Because he's not going to be acquired because of the minutes he plays in Montreal and teams tend to pay more in trades for D who are strong defenders.

Of course not, but there was some track record...and furthermore, the Habs didn't trade an established top pairing (whether you think he is or not, that's what he is in Montreal) to acquire either player.

Matter of fact, Kent Hughes traded Alex Romanov and a 4th round pick to acquire a 13th overall pick that he flipped for Dach, and somehow, you think Matheson AND a 1st round pick is worth a 10th overall?

All due respect, but something not adding up there.

30ish points with poor impacts by eye test or tracking is not "some track record".

And the point is what is the long term plan. You planning to re-sign Matheson? Compete for the cup in the next two seasons? What was the point of trading any team trading any veteran? Its a consideration of who you have, who you want and where you're going.

But more importantly, this Matheson plus 26th for 10th (or a young established NHLer) is your hypothetical. New Jersey doesn't need Matheson anyways so its a moot point.

Also, not all drafts are equal. This is by all accounts a draft with better prospects in the 6-12 range than most years. If you believe you can get a guy you really like there, then comparing it to 2022 doesn't mean anything.

Again, I think the gap here is that I think Matheson is a huge trade chip, he's an established player...he's not a "hopeful" player, he's not a prospect. He's a top 4 Dman on a great contract, whether you rate Matheson or not, there is huge value for that.

If the Habs are so thirsty for another 1st round pick, they can pull off a trade like they did with Romanov for the 13th overall.

While Romanov has turned into a nice player, to suggest he had more value 2 years ago vs what Matheson is worth today, is completely ridiculous, all due respect.

Tell me which teams you think need a player like Matheson and would/can pay a ton for him. Because I don't think the list is nearly as long as you think it is.

And who do you think Montreal actually has that fits a Romanov mold? Because its not any of the young D (save Guhle).

 

[McGuires Corndog]

Nice …

You mention that our young D could possibly bust, not progress and this spells danger as they are not progressing ….. yet, you are ready to trade Matheson for a pick that’s also not a proven player and could potentially bust, especially in that 10-15 range.

Matheson will need to be moved, sure, but not for a pick. Move a proven player for a ….proven player.

I didn’t say to move him for a pick, though.

With that being said, I’m still in the honeymoon phase with these guys, they have yet to do anything that impedes my opinion on their judgement. The only small slight , I didn’t love that they took Reinbacher over Michkov… but it’s early and way to early to judge whether or not it was the right move. So for now I just trust and hope that was the right move.

So if Hughes wants to trade Matheson for a pick that turns into Catton, or Buium, or whomever they like… I’ll trust they identified that player has the ability to bring more to the team moving forward than MM can.

The point isn’t to mitigate all risk, it’s impossible. The point is to try to identify a player you believe can help you 3-5-7 years from now to help the core be competitive. Matheson will be long past his expiration date by then, so it’s kind of irrelevant.

 

[Weltschmerz]

Unless Dubois comes back on the market.

or the Laine stuff takes longer

 

[HuGo Sham]

Here but no longer posting regularly and it’s probably for the best.

You and others are doing a great job keeping exchanges interesting and that’s all that really matters.

what the

 

[McGuires Corndog]

Unless Dubois comes back on the market.

I never want to hear that name again lol

Just so you know I've always scrutinized your posts excessively when I come across them...


Just Sayin

Probably the worst poster on here if we’re all being honest with one another.

 

[417]

I'm not sure what you're arguing here, that the difference between a top 10 pick and a 3rd and 5th is insignificant? That Tanev is analogous to Matheson.

What i'm arguing seems fairly obvious, that if a washed up Joel Edmunson can net as high as a 3rd round pick, trading a Mike Matheson, in his prime, still signed to a great contract, for a 10th overall pick, while not terrible in a vacuum, is actually terrible when it comes to maximizing Matheson's value as a player.

The trades I referenced should illustrate that pretty clearly.

In the playoffs, Philip Broberg is averaging 15:55 minutes a game, Darnell Nurse is averaging 18:53 minutes a game, Dmitry Kulikov is averaging 13:51 minutes a game, OEL is averaging 15:23 minutes a game and Mikkola is averaging 18:42 minutes a game. Only two of those guys are actually playing top-4 minutes and those are play a style of game that Matheson does not play.

Broberg is replacing the guy who was 3rd on the Oilers in TOI/g, which was Codi Ceci, he was so bad, he's been in and out of the lineup and is currently on their 3rd pair.

4th in TOI/g is Darnell Nurse, and his struggles are well known

As for the Panthers, after Forsling, Montour and Ekblad (who have both struggled this post season)...Mikkola is 4th in TOI/g and it's less to do with play style and more to do with them just not having no other choice.

The whole point here is to illustrate that Mike Matheson could easily fit in either of those teams lineups, as well as a host of other teams.

He's a quality Dman, anyone saying otherwise is taking the piss

And I am one of the more pro-Matheson posters on this board and have consistently defended both his on-ice play and keeping him on the team. I am not treating him as a scrub, I'm looking around and practically considering teams that would seriously value him. Because he's not going to be acquired because of the minutes he plays in Montreal and teams tend to pay more in trades for D who are strong defenders.

I think the mistake you and alot of people make, is thinking there's a ton quality Dmen out there...there just isn't.

Mike Matheson fits in on pretty much any team in the NHL...and if 2 Stanley Cup teams can afford to play the guys they're currently playing in key roles, there's certainly room for Mike Matheson to do the same.

30ish points with poor impacts by eye test or tracking is not "some track record".

And the point is what is the long term plan. You planning to re-sign Matheson? Compete for the cup in the next two seasons? What was the point of trading any team trading any veteran? Its a consideration of who you have, who you want and where you're going.

But more importantly, this Matheson plus 26th for 10th (or a young established NHLer) is your hypothetical. New Jersey doesn't need Matheson anyways so its a moot point.

But yes it IS some track record lol...both Dach/Newhook had proven to be ACTUAL NHL players. I'm not sure how you can say otherwise, it's not up for debate.

But that's the hypothetical being discussed lol you're free to discuss your own but the reason I brought it up is because I've seen it mentioned several times here and it was discussed once more on twitter this morning and it peaked my interest.

Also, not all drafts are equal. This is by all accounts a draft with better prospects in the 6-12 range than most years. If you believe you can get a guy you really like there, then comparing it to 2022 doesn't mean anything.

I understand that not all drafts are equal...but take a look at all picks in the 10th overall range the last decade or so (I started in 2021 since it's probably too early to look at anything before).

It's 50/50 on even if you can draft a player as good as Mike Matheson with that 10th pick.

Tell me which teams you think need a player like Matheson and would/can pay a ton for him. Because I don't think the list is nearly as long as you think it is.

Let's put it this way, you could plug Mike Matheson into the lineup of either team playing tonight and they wouldn't miss a beat. Both could fit him under their cap without having to do hurdles,

So i'd suggest if he's good enough to play on the 2 teams playing in Game 7 of the Stanley Cup finals, i'm sure he could find a spot on one of the other 29 teams, don't you think?

And who do you think Montreal actually has that fits a Romanov mold? Because its not any of the young D (save Guhle).

well in ADDITION to Guhle, Harris/Xhekaj...

 

[sampollock]

Trading Matheson is part of the next step, whether that’s this offseason , the trade deadline or next offseason.. you have to trade him. He’s going to be 32 by the time he needs to be re-signed and if our prospects are as good as we all hope and need them to be, there isn’t room for him.

If you opt not to trade him this offseason to shelter the young D men for another season, I can give that a pass.

But guess what, if you get to the end of the season and you think you need to keep Matheson because Hutson or Reinbacher aren’t taking the next steps… your rebuild may already be in danger.

Not only do you have to make the right moves, you also have to have a bit of luck. Right now all of our eggs are in the D basket, and if those “big 3” bust it sets us back. A lot.

Our rebuild is going well, but if we want to reach the upper echelon of teams in 3-5 years from now we can’t afford to mess up this draft and we also can’t afford to pass up on an opportunity to unload a quality veteran that can land you a piece that will better fit your core’s championship window.

Matheson value is high now

 

[NewDef]

It’s going to be interesting to see what the return is, tbh.

He was a mid-1st who’s performed pretty much as you’d expect for a mid-1st, maybe a tad better..

So you know from Winnipeg’s POV, it’s the 26th ++ from our end.

My initial thought is they’ll put value towards a similarly aged or slightly older prospect that is going to help them immediately before their window closes. So that being said, not sure we have the horses for that race.

Ylonen + 26th would fit the bill. Could even add a 4th or 5th?

Ylonen ain't sh**, i dont feel he's future core but he's got 1 full nhl year and is learning the lessons. He could end up a pretty solid 3rd liner in a year or two if he puts it all together.

 

[Hins77]

Ylonen + 26th would fit the bill. Could even add a 4th or 5th?

Ylonen ain't sh**, i dont feel he's future core but he's got 1 full nhl year and is learning the lessons. He could end up a pretty solid 3rd liner in a year or two if he puts it all together.

Ylonen is playing on the second line in the AHL, for a contender club. Teams have dime and dozens tweener like him in the AHL.

 

[The Great Weal]

I agree it will take more than that but I'd love to grab him this week before the draft to open options at 5 a little bit more

It will probably cost Mailloux+. It's hard to give up on Mailloux, the tools/size/skating is super intriguing but I don't see how we get him otherwise. I get the feeling that we'd really only be interested if Demidov/Lindstrom are unavailable and we intend on picking a dman.

Apparently Pesce going to Devils. No need or place for Matheson there.

Totally different players anyways but man the Devils got so much better already. Add in the fact that they were killed by injuries last year and they should easily make the playoffs this time.

 

[Sterling Archer]

It will probably cost Mailloux+. It's hard to give up on Mailloux, the tools/size/skating is super intriguing but I don't see how we get him otherwise. I get the feeling that we'd really only be interested if Demidov/Lindstrom are unavailable and we intend on picking a dman.

Totally different players anyways but man the Devils got so much better already. Add in the fact that they were killed by injuries last year and they should easily make the playoffs this time.

They are and I wasn’t comparing. Just saying they already have a ton of good D and might be adding more. Matheson not a need and they wouldn’t have space anyways.

 

[The Great Weal]

They are and I wasn’t comparing. Just saying they already have a ton of good D and might be adding more. Matheson not a need and they wouldn’t have space anyways.

I didn't mean to make it seem like you were comparing, I was building on your post. They needed a more defensive dman and Pesce make a lot more sense. Plus they don't have to give up anything for him.

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

What’s your time frame for success?

I like your idea of cleaning out the bottom 6…I like Roy, Newhook and Evans there…..I’d hope Florian, Tuch and Beck could round out that part of the roster….

Dvorak, Armia and Savard will be shown the door by trade deadline I’m sure.

I’m not too keen on trading Matheson for a pick, Matheson is a proven commodity and could certainly fetch us a top 6 forward if KH chooses to go this path.

This team needs to start progressing and winning or we will be stuck in Arizona purgatory of loser mentality and always picking between 5 and 15 without ever moving forward.

This is why i would rather overpay for a need at this moment.

Use mid picks to get rid of some contracts .

The goal is to progress you are 100% correct.

Let's see where we are right now( future and now)

Caufield - Suzuki - Slaf
???-Dach*-??? (* If the kid can stay healthy.)
Newhook-???-Roy ( I think Roy can start on the third to see where hes at)
RHP-Evans-??? Need to find a better 4th line player

Need to get rid of
Armia Dvorak Anderson Gallagher, use mid picks to make some spot or use the last retain on 1 of them.

Guhle - ????
???-???
Xhekaj-Harris
Savard and Matheson can be traded for assets.
Habs gotta focus on Mailloux Struble Reinbacher and Hutson to fill those empty spots overtime.

Our 5th OA needs to be a future top 6 player.

You insert a kid progressively during the season . Don't rush things but keep staying competitive.

By the end of the season half of this team could be brand new. This year is really important for the future.