HF Habs: Trade Proposal Thread #87: 2024 Season Finale

[sampollock]

hey ECK you said Laine was a E4 you clown

 

[ReHabs]

Christian Dvorak ($4.45 million through 2025) has an eight-team no-trade clause and he could have Columbus on it. Josh Anderson, who came to the Canadiens from Columbus, might also have the Blue Jackets as one of the eight teams he’d be unwilling to spend his final three seasons under contract (at $5.5M per) with. And Brendan Gallagher (three more years at $6.5M) has a no-movement clause and a six-team no-trade list.

I guess it's too much to ask for the Habs beat reporter to actually do his job and ask around and find out the answer to these very basic questions.

 

[Captain Mountain]

I guess it's too much to ask for the Habs beat reporter to actually do his job and ask around and find out the answer to these very basic questions.

You really think these are basic questions? There is almost nothing NHL Players/Agents want getting out less than NTC lists. No one knows the full contents on these lists even when players are being actively and aggressively shopped.

 

[ReHabs]

This feels like an incredibly reductive interpretation of multiple different opinions, but:

-Guhle being traded for a forward would set Montreal further back in the near term, which is counterproductive if the goal is to win now. You also don't need to trade him to take a D, Montreal's prospect pools isn't so strong
-Xhekaj isn't going to return a difference maker at forward.
-Matheson isn't going to return a Zegras/Necas difference maker at forward AND his role is incredibly hard to replace if the goal is to be competitive now.

I also think you're overestimating how conservative most on here are.

And I'm sorry, but Ducks, Bolts AND Stars have "dogged it" for longer stretches of time than the Habs ever have. What those teams know is that you need star talent to win and there generally has to be pain to get them. Whereas Montreal was previously perfectly content with being mediocre as long as they could sell being "competitive" and making the playoffs where "anything can happen".

You can dream in whatever shades you want, but patience and being realistic is a virtue for where Montreal is. That doesn't mean they're being conservative (making trades for the likes of Dach and Newhook certainly isn't that).

Won't reply point by point, so bear with me.

I didn't say 'win now' and that's a strange condition to put on these proposals that are clearly meant to improve the team. Nothing more than that. Improving the team means taking the "natural" (expected) growth and supplementing it with additional talent/abilities. Dach and Newhook are obviously two clear cases but I would push back on the notion either was a bold move. Dach... maybe, but he's made of glass and was a reclamation project. Newhook is not expected to ever be a needle-mover, he replaced Drouin/Hoffman with a slight upgrade: a solid middle6 player who's good on his skates (with upside for more, maybe).

I'm talking about a category of acquisition above this. Players who're expected to hit 65pts a season, for example.

 

[General Fanager]

I guess it's too much to ask for the Habs beat reporter to actually do his job and ask around and find out the answer to these very basic questions.

In what fantasyland would a player or his agent want these lists available to the public?

 

[ReHabs]

In what fantasyland would a player or his agent want these lists available to the public?

It's not about what the player or his agent want, it's about what the reporter can find out and report. Their interests are meant to be at odds.

In some sports the reporters take pride in their work as third-parties. Engels is the Habs *beat* reporter and he cannot produce or reveal a single bit of news.

I guess it is too much to ask for.

Players who don't want to move somewhere have no shame or fear in revealing through the media a certain franchise's name on their NTC list. They do it with Eliot Friedman all the time.

Engels could ask and be told "no, I won't tell you" but I don't think he even thought to ask. It's beyond him. That's the rub.

 

[Captain Mountain]

Won't reply point by point, so bear with me.

I didn't say 'win now' and that's a strange condition to put on these proposals that are clearly meant to improve the team. Nothing more than that. Improving the team means taking the "natural" (expected) growth and supplementing it with additional talent/abilities. Dach and Newhook are obviously two clear cases but I would push back on the notion either was a bold move. Dach... maybe, but he's made of glass and was a reclamation project. Newhook is not expected to ever be a needle-mover, he replaced Drouin/Hoffman with a slight upgrade: a solid middle6 player who's good on his skates (with upside for more, maybe).

I'm talking about a category of acquisition above this. Players who're expected to hit 65pts a season, for example.

And who is that? Because no one should reasonably expect Necas, Zegras, Laine, etc. to hit 65 points a season. Based on your previous characterizations, Laine is "made of glass" and is "a reclamation project". Zegras benefited from serious offensive usage that Montreal (and Anahiem) can't give him now and is also "made of glass". Newhook had a better D+5 season than Necas, who has eclipsed 55 points (not even 65) once. If you want the production your looking for, then look at Marner or maybe Ehlers.

If you don't like "win now", how about "see material improvement next season like compete for a playoff spot without damaging potential growth in the long run".

But maybe its hard to understand your expectations, because you seem to higher on Montreal's potential growth, but low on the players that would see the growth. Which is a strange inconsistency.

 

[BehindTheTimes]

1. SJ - Celebrini
2. Chicago - Dickinson
3. Anaheim - Levshunov
4. Columbus - Silyayev
5. Habs - Sennecke
6. Habs - Eiserman
7. Habs - Parekh

Something like that.

Wow if we had 5-7 and selected those players what a terrible result that would be.

 

[Kosseca]

hey ECK you said Laine was a E4 you clown

cant be E-anything. Laine is still in the program and no team can speak to him until he's out, and no team will make an offer to CLB until they speak to him.... so yeah. massive BS

 

[sampollock]

cant be E-anything. Laine is still in the program and no team can speak to him until he's out, and no team will make an offer to CLB until they speak to him.... so yeah. massive BS

yup
shows that hacks on the on the internet

 

[BaseballCoach]

If people are giving Matheson Norris votes based on the above criteria, they should have their voting rights revoked. He was 9th in Defenseman scoring and is, let's be honest, very much a one-way, offensive defenseman. Many of the guys above him play both sides of the puck and i'd take quite a few guys below him that also play better D.

He's a good player with obvious trade value, but he is not a Norris caliber player no matter what his +/- says.

I do like that you stated "Not from our writers" though. I am guessing this implies we know better?

People see the flaws in their own back yard more easily than elsewhere.

About 15 to 20 guys get Norris votes per year.

I'm sue MM would be one of them at 60 points and positive plus minus playing against the top lines.

 

[Archijerej]

I've proposed to trade Guhle for a forward and to use the 5OA to draft one of the very good LD prospects. Poo-pooed, Guhle is too good to trade.

Why not just trade the pick for a forward, instead of further increasing the age gap between our forwards and defensemen? How does trading Guhle speed things up if you're creating a hole on defense that's only going to be filled in 3-5 years? (hopefully).

Now, is Necas or Zegras worth the 5OA pick? In my opinion they likely aren't. You get a handful of those high picks during a rebuild, so you should aim at franchise-altering talent.

Hughes has brought in a young forward every offseason so far, so there's really not much reason to criticize him on that front. But it also doesn't mean that a similar opportunity in terms of price and reward will present itself again this offseason.

For what it's worth, I would love them to take a shot at Laine.

 

[Vachon23]

If Joel Farabee is really available, he would be my #1 target

 

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

I guess it's too much to ask for the Habs beat reporter to actually do his job and ask around and find out the answer to these very basic questions.

Eric Engels is to Montreal as Waylon Smithers is to Mr. Burns

The vast majority of Montreal media is f***ing ass which is impressive considering there's possibly double the amount because of language.

 

[Habricot]

Demidov, Dickinson, Lindstrom, Buium.

First pairing Buium/Dickinson - Reinbacher will be good for a tons of years and they are better than Guhle/Hutson.

Demidov and Lindstrom cause they have 1st line potential

Not sure where you get that they are better then Ghule but that is reeeealy far fetched. They migth apear to have a higher ceiling but its definitly not a certainty...and not warranty on weather they can reach it.

 

[Skip Bayless]

If Joel Farabee is really available, he would be my #1 target

He'd be a great fit with Dach and Demidov.

 

[Vachon23]

He'd be a great fit with Dach and Demidov.

If we draft Demidov, I would like him with Suzuki and Slaf

 

[sampollock]

Eric Engels is to Montreal as Waylon Smithers is to Mr. Burns

The vast majority of Montreal media is f***ing ass which is impressive considering there's possibly double the amount because of language.

 

[vokiel]

I guess it's too much to ask for the Habs beat reporter to actually do his job and ask around and find out the answer to these very basic questions.

Doesn't seem to be their jobs to inform people anymore. It's their job to just answer their questions with more questions or empty answers.

 

[sampollock]

Doesn't seem to be their jobs to inform people anymore. It's their job to just answer their questions with more questions or empty answers.

We speculate and report to each other here just like they do but they get paid for it

 

[ZUKI]

And who is that? Because no one should reasonably expect Necas, Zegras, Laine, etc. to hit 65 points a season. Based on your previous characterizations, Laine is "made of glass" and is "a reclamation project". Zegras benefited from serious offensive usage that Montreal (and Anahiem) can't give him now and is also "made of glass". Newhook had a better D+5 season than Necas, who has eclipsed 55 points (not even 65) once. If you want the production your looking for, then look at Marner or maybe Ehlers.

If you don't like "win now", how about "see material improvement next season like compete for a playoff spot without damaging potential growth in the long run".

But maybe its hard to understand your expectations, because you seem to higher on Montreal's potential growth, but low on the players that would see the growth. Which is a strange inconsistency.

I have read that Necas is good and spectacular but that he's on a team loaded with very good offensive players, so his ice time, his line mates weren't the best to inflate his stats. Well, maybe it's the same with Newhook

 

[sampollock]

Can't wait till Kent gets a guy and we all go where did that come from

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

Can't wait till Kent gets a guy and we all go where did that come from

last time with Newhook , wasnt really impressed , hope its someone who has top 6 skills

 

[Milhouse40]

last time with Newhook , wasnt really impressed , hope its someone who has top 6 skills

It goes with what's available but I think people are hugely underestimating Newhook

Newhook ended up the season at 0,61pts per game (50pts season and on pace for 22 goals)
Playing from wing to center and spending a giant chunk of ice-time with Armia and Anderson.

Necas is at 0.69pts per game this season and some are ready to give a 60+pts D on a sweet deal for him to be a top 6 guy.

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

It goes with what's available but I think people are hugely underestimating Newhook

Newhook ended up the season at 0,61pts per game (50pts season and on pace for 22 goals)
Playing from wing to center and spending a giant chunk of ice-time with Armia and Anderson.

Necas is at 0.69pts per game this season and some are ready to give a 60+pts D on a sweet deal for him to be a top 6 guy.

It's 1 season where he had alot of icetime . Pace stats are just projecting. I still don't see Newhook as a second liner if we want to go further. I think he can plays there for a couple of games if needed but not much more.

You can't base a season of a career , like Matheson is a great example. He won't repeat that if we want to go further since he's not in the big plan. I think we if we trade for those kind of players should be the '' time to win and compete'' .

Reclamation projects are cool but i wouldn't build a team on that.
NewHook still incertain , Dach is still a question mark to this day , whos also made of glass. What if it's not working in long term with Dach or Newhook? Team goes back to Suzuki does it all.

Id rather get a 23-24 year olds player with already good success but want more money or a change so we can build around him.
I don't think building a reclamation project is a good vision.

We'll see , I don't think we are gonna draft twice in the first round anyways