HF Habs: Trade Proposal Thread #86: 2023-2024 Season

[Lafleurs Guy]

Are Jake Allen's struggles going to make him difficult to move? I see a goalie that isn't going to interest too many teams.

Yes. He had some value but I’d say it’s gone. He’s not going to garner much anymore.

 

[CrAzYNiNe]

Yes. He had some value but I’d say it’s gone. He’s not going to garner much anymore.

I don't believe his play has much say on his value. At some point a few teams will get desperate and the return will depend on who is more desperate.

If he was playing like a #1 goalie, I don't think that would change his value all that much (for argument sake he goes for a 3rd now, but if he was playing "great" he get's a 3rd and a 7th).

I struggle to reason with myself thinking that any team trading for him is looking for an upgrade at starting goalie.

 

[CrAzYNiNe]

I am also very curious about having 6 D that can be considered NHL ready that are 23 or younger. (added Mailloux to make a bigger number). Also have Reinbacher and Hutson.

Can't wait for that ball to start rolling.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I am also very curious about having 6 D that can be considered NHL ready that are 23 or younger. (added Mailloux to make a bigger number). Also have Reinbacher and Hutson.

Can't wait for that ball to start rolling.

Our D is pretty crazy. If we can keep Guehle, RB, Mailloux and Hutson… that’s a great group to build on. Struble, Baron, Wifi, Engstrom, Harris etc… Lots to trade with.

 

[BaseballCoach]

What was that Allen for a 6th rumor?
I don't remember hearing that one.

News came out this week that Toronto may have offered a 6th recently for Jake and that Hughes is looking for more.

My point is that I wanted us to keep deSmith, and so far, that appears to have made some sense. His lifetime stats are better than any of the goalies we already had, so his results this year so far do not surprise me.

 

[vokiel]

Are Jake Allen's struggles going to make him difficult to move? I see a goalie that isn't going to interest too many teams.

Even if he would, he's no Halak. The return would be tame.

 

[Miller Time]

He just never shows up in bigger games. Early in the series he gets points and then as things get further on he goes away. I’ve watched a lot of him. I honestly think the Leafs should’ve traded him long ago for some defensive help.

He’s still young and Uber talented. His career isn’t written yet and he can always turn it around. If he wins a cup with a good run everyone will forget that other stuff.

But I hate what I’ve seen from him. I wouldn’t want to be depending on him for us to win anything. I’m not a fan.

I think it's hyperbole to say he "never" shows up in bigger games.
50 PO games.
47 points
3 GWG (3 of 20 wins for his team in PO wins)
22min/game

Hockey is a team game, as fun as it is to watch the Laffs po failures and dump on their star players for failing to advance, I think the dumping on Marner (and matthews) is exaggerated.

don't really know what you mean by "depending on him to win anything"... hockey is a team game, no winning team depends on one player (aside from the rare goalie that carries a team further than otherwise possible), but imo there isn't a winger in our organization I'd rather have in the lineup going into a must win game... a must-score shift? Maybe CC.

His career thus far makes him a first ballot HOF if he simply maintains his level, let alone if he finds a way to elevate his post season impact. That's a weird thing to "hate".

the laffs roster construction I don't disagree with, and I'm not a fan of his off-ice personality and approach, but I'm not about to start pretending he's anything short of one of the best wingers in the game today, that's a bad assessment imo

 

[McGees]

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Look at all these teams who do t wanna pay up for a goalie.

View attachment 798515

Unfortunately most are non contenders.

 

[Hins77]

Look at all these teams who do t wanna pay up for a goalie.

View attachment 798515

tesms are all the same now with a cap tight since 3/4 years ago…. Those with a better goalie won most of the time. One day I was switching between 2 teams at tva sport and rds. I had the impression it was the same game. Teams looks the same, parity is next level

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I think it's hyperbole to say he "never" shows up in bigger games.
50 PO games.
47 points
3 GWG (3 of 20 wins for his team in PO wins)
22min/game

Hockey is a team game, as fun as it is to watch the Laffs po failures and dump on their star players for failing to advance, I think the dumping on Marner (and matthews) is exaggerated.

don't really know what you mean by "depending on him to win anything"... hockey is a team game, no winning team depends on one player (aside from the rare goalie that carries a team further than otherwise possible), but imo there isn't a winger in our organization I'd rather have in the lineup going into a must win game... a must-score shift? Maybe CC.

His career thus far makes him a first ballot HOF if he simply maintains his level, let alone if he finds a way to elevate his post season impact. That's a weird thing to "hate".

the laffs roster construction I don't disagree with, and I'm not a fan of his off-ice personality and approach, but I'm not about to start pretending he's anything short of one of the best wingers in the game today, that's a bad assessment imo

10 goals in 50 playoff games. That’s horrific for a player of his talents. It’s 16 goals averaged out over an 82 game season.

I’m… not a fan.

Edit: I’m trying to find it but his numbers in the last two games of a playoff series are mind bogglingly bad. I’ll keep searching because it was a crazy stat.

 

[McGees]

Unfortunately most are non contenders.

Sens, Devils, Canes, Oilers, Sabres...I'd be pissed if my GM kept riding their goalies when they should all be in playoffs this year.

 

[Miller Time]

10 goals in 50 playoff games. That’s horrific for a player of his talents. It’s 16 goals averaged out over an 82 game season.

I’m… not a fan.

?
I thought you said you watched him play... apparently not so much lol

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

?
I thought you said you watched him play... apparently not so much lol

Oh I have. As per my edited post above, I’m trying to find his stats in the last two games of a series. It’s appallingly bad and gets pulled up every year.

And a guy who scores at like 30 goals a year to average 16 is so bad.

You can pull up my thoughts on Marner over the years. I’ve never been a fan. Nylander on the other hand has been mostly ferric in the playoffs. Even when he doesn’t score he’s good. Reminds me of Alfredsson and Hossa. Hossa was always dangerous but Alfredsson would just slide away.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Here we go:

Marner

Game 1: 4G 5A in 8 games
Game 2: 4G 7A in 8 games
Game 3: 0G 8A in 8 games
Game 4: 0G 9A in 7 games
Game 5: 0G 4A in 7 games
Game 6: 1G 1A in 6 games
Game 7: 0G 2A in 4 games

As the games get bigger he really shrinks away. He was terrible against us in game 7, same with last year in Florida… I want nothing to do with this guy.

Again, he’s young. He can flip the script and this will be forgotten. But I’ve watched him a long time. Coach scolded him and had to walk it back. He’s a Primma Donna and I want nothing to do with him. Has all the Skill in the world - no Will. One goal in 24 games past game three of a series is disgraceful.

PK Subban. That’s the kind of guy you want in the playoffs. An absolute beast.

 

[Miller Time]

Oh I have. As per my edited post above, I’m trying to find his stats in the last two games of a series. It’s appallingly bad and gets pulled up every year.

And a guy who scores at like 30 goals a year to average 16 is so bad.

You can pull up my thoughts on Marner over the years. I’ve never been a fan. Nylander on the other hand has been mostly ferric in the playoffs. Even when he doesn’t score he’s good. Reminds me of Alfredsson and Hossa. Hossa was always dangerous but Alfredsson would just slide away.

I'm well aware of your tendency to stick to a narrative regardless of evidence to the contrary. No need to highlight that.

telling that you bring up a HOF player as a comparison... I guess you don't value player's of that caliber if they don't fit your script.

I don't think there's a deal that makes sense to bring Marner to Montreal. And, I hope the habs have the "problem" of icing a HOF caliber winger at some point in the near future. I'm a fan of talent, apparently you aren't. So be it.

No point discussing this one any further.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I'm well aware of your tendency to stick to a narrative regardless of evidence to the contrary. No need to highlight that.

telling that you bring up a HOF player as a comparison... I guess you don't value player's of that caliber if they don't fit your script.

I don't think there's a deal that makes sense to bring Marner to Montreal. And, I hope the habs have the "problem" of icing a HOF caliber winger at some point in the near future. I'm a fan of talent, apparently you aren't. So be it.

No point discussing this one any further.

I just posted the stats. Is it a narrative? Have a look.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Btw, if you guys aren’t watching the Bills game you’re missing out.

 

[Beendair Donedat]

I think Hughes will have a busy upcoming deadline day:

Kovacevic will almost certainly be dealt, as he went from being our steadiest defenseman to being a professional bench warmer. I honestly don’t want to move him but it sure seems like the writing is on the wall there. Kovacevic should be worth a 2nd or 3rd, cheap depth and physical right hand shot defensemen are always at a premium at the deadline.

Monahan should either get a top prospect, or a first and a middle prospect from a contender. Colorado and Winnipeg are two teams that should be in the mix. I’d prefer Winnipeg as they have more top prospects in their pool.

Savard is a wildcard. IF the Habs retain 50 percent on his contract? He will get return a first round pick plus. He’s won a cup and he’s a stabilizing force on the back end. Someone will pay up to have him for two playoff runs. If the Habs don’t retain? I doubt Hughes is offered much and will probably keep him, to be dealt at the 2025 trade deadline.

Allen - again a wildcard. There is a market for goalies out there but does anyone want him? I don’t think he’s done much to improve his value. Doubt he returns anything of real value.

Where things get really interesting is in the summer - the Habs have a ton of cap space already and if they move some of the aforementioned players at the deadline, they’ll have even more cap space to offer some attractive UFAs - potentially signing one of Elias Lindholm or Sam Reinhart to deals. Probably look at re-signing Monahan as well.

I like the idea of signing Reinhart particularly,
because it would give us another goal scorer with great passing ability. Plus he can slot in at center if there are injuries.

2024-2025 lineup

Caufield - Suzuki - Slafkovsky
Newhook - Dach - Reinhart
Roy - Monahan - Anderson
Pezzetta - Evans - Gallagher

Matheson - Guhle
Struble - Barron
Xhekaj - Reinbacher/Harris/Mailloux

Montembeault
Primeau

 

[Miller Time]

I just posted the stats. Is it a narrative? Have a look.

cherry picked stats to feed a narrative reflects a poor understanding of statistics, nothing to look at there... same in the Suzuki thread. not wasting my time with that silliness.

You don't like Marner. Great. move on.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

cherry picked stats to feed a narrative reflects a poor understanding of statistics, nothing to look at there... same in the Suzuki thread. not wasting my time with that silliness.

You don't like Marner. Great. move on.

Dude I don’t get why you get so upset with this stuff.

Those aren’t cherry picked numbers. Those are ALL his numbers and how he’s done situationally.

Again, he’s young and could turn it around as early as this year. I just don’t have faith in him.

And it’s not just the lack of scoring. He plays really badly. Remember the puck over the glass that lead to the winning goal? His rush up the ice that led to the winning goal? Twice in our series he not only didn’t produce but directly helped us. Did you see him in game 7 last year?

I just… can’t with him. I don’t believe him. All the skill in the world but I can’t get past the warts.

Good night to you my friend.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I think Hughes will have a busy upcoming deadline day:

Kovacevic will almost certainly be dealt, as he went from being our steadiest defenseman to being a professional bench warmer. I honestly don’t want to move him but it sure seems like the writing is on the wall there. Kovacevic should be worth a 2nd or 3rd, cheap depth and physical right hand shot defensemen are always at a premium at the deadline.

Monahan should either get a top prospect, or a first and a middle prospect from a contender. Colorado and Winnipeg are two teams that should be in the mix. I’d prefer Winnipeg as they have more top prospects in their pool.

Savard is a wildcard. IF the Habs retain 50 percent on his contract? He will get return a first round pick plus. He’s won a cup and he’s a stabilizing force on the back end. Someone will pay up to have him for two playoff runs. If the Habs don’t retain? I doubt Hughes is offered much and will probably keep him, to be dealt at the 2025 trade deadline.

Allen - again a wildcard. There is a market for goalies out there but does anyone want him? I don’t think he’s done much to improve his value. Doubt he returns anything of real value.

Where things get really interesting is in the summer - the Habs have a ton of cap space already and if they move some of the aforementioned players at the deadline, they’ll have even more cap space to offer some attractive UFAs - potentially signing one of Elias Lindholm or Sam Reinhart to deals. Probably look at re-signing Monahan as well.

I like the idea of signing Reinhart particularly,
because it would give us another goal scorer with great passing ability. Plus he can slot in at center if there are injuries.

2024-2025 lineup

Caufield - Suzuki - Slafkovsky
Newhook - Dach - Reinhart
Roy - Monahan - Anderson
Pezzetta - Evans - Gallagher

Matheson - Guhle
Struble - Barron
Xhekaj - Reinbacher/Harris/Mailloux

Montembeault
Primeau

We have a lot to trade with and it’s a great draft year. If we got a top five and offered up a bunch of blueliners a team like the Hawks might trade down. It’d speed up their rebuild and they’d still get a stud.

It’s going to be interesting for sure.

 

[The Great Weal]

At some point we will have to move defensemen, Hutson, Engstrom and Reinbacher will push for a regular spot in the near future, trading Savard would be heart broken since he is a real warrior and a home kid, but we need to start moving contracts.

I just have a hard time seeing us only have one vet on the backend.

 

[Garry Valk]

Here we go:

Marner

Game 1: 4G 5A in 8 games
Game 2: 4G 7A in 8 games
Game 3: 0G 8A in 8 games
Game 4: 0G 9A in 7 games
Game 5: 0G 4A in 7 games
Game 6: 1G 1A in 6 games
Game 7: 0G 2A in 4 games

As the games get bigger he really shrinks away. He was terrible against us in game 7, same with last year in Florida… I want nothing to do with this guy.

Again, he’s young. He can flip the script and this will be forgotten. But I’ve watched him a long time. Coach scolded him and had to walk it back. He’s a Primma Donna and I want nothing to do with him. Has all the Skill in the world - no Will. One goal in 24 games past game three of a series is disgraceful.

PK Subban. That’s the kind of guy you want in the playoffs. An absolute beast

Here we go:

Marner

Game 1: 4G 5A in 8 games
Game 2: 4G 7A in 8 games
Game 3: 0G 8A in 8 games
Game 4: 0G 9A in 7 games
Game 5: 0G 4A in 7 games
Game 6: 1G 1A in 6 games
Game 7: 0G 2A in 4 games

As the games get bigger he really shrinks away. He was terrible against us in game 7, same with last year in Florida… I want nothing to do with this guy.

Again, he’s young. He can flip the script and this will be forgotten. But I’ve watched him a long time. Coach scolded him and had to walk it back. He’s a Primma Donna and I want nothing to do with him. Has all the Skill in the world - no Will. One goal in 24 games past game three of a series is disgraceful.

PK Subban. That’s the kind of guy you want in the playoffs. An absolute beast.

people have forgotten how good Subban was in the playoffs. He elevated to another level. It was incredible.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

people have forgotten how good Subban was in the playoffs. He elevated to another level. It was incredible.

He was amazing. A higher point per game in the playoffs than in the regular season. Not by much, but still… To put it in perspective, he racked up more points in the playoffs for us per game than Clutch Claude Lemieux did. That’s amazing for a defenseman and he did it in a lower scoring era.

I can’t believe we didn’t win a cup with TWO guys who were incredible playoff performers.