HF Habs: Trade Proposal Thread #86: 2023-2024 Season

[Miller Time]

Dude I don’t get why you get so upset with this stuff.

Those aren’t cherry picked numbers. Those are ALL his numbers and how he’s done situationally.

Again, he’s young and could turn it around as early as this year. I just don’t have faith in him.

And it’s not just the lack of scoring. He plays really badly. Remember the puck over the glass that lead to the winning goal? His rush up the ice that led to the winning goal? Twice in our series he not only didn’t produce but directly helped us. Did you see him in game 7 last year?

I just… can’t with him. I don’t believe him. All the skill in the world but I can’t get past the warts.

Good night to you my friend.

whose upset?

His numbers are HOF numbers. You don't like it, so be it. I'm not suggesting you should.

His age really is pretty irrelevant to your preferences... Alfredsson got old, didn't he?

I recall every elite player I've ever watched making mistakes in key games, it's called elite sports. Pretty sure there's a Jordan quote about just that ("I've missed 40,000 shots...").

You watched the Bills tonight. Do you like Josh Allen for his 300+ yards and multiple TDs, or hate him because of his 3 turnovers in the red zone?

Conflating preference with fact is silly. That's all I'm suggesting. You don't like Marner. Great. Enjoy disliking him.

I've seen him do more good and great things than bad things... That's kinda what HOF type careers look like... and, like Alfredsson, Marner plays for a team I dislike, so I too enjoy watching his missteps. I just don't mistake that for meaning that he's a bad player, nor fool myself into thinking I wouldn't love to have a player of that ability in our lineup. Marner is, and has been, better than any forward we've had in our lineup since he got into the league. As of today, it'll be a big stretch to see any of our current players match, let alone exceed his level of play.

Hate on that all you want, not sure what purpose it serves.

Great night to you, hope you're in as good mood as I am, sincerely! (thanks to Josh and his mistake filled teammates

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

whose upset?

Well…

His numbers are HOF numbers. You don't like it, so be it. I'm not suggesting you should.

His age really is pretty irrelevant to your preferences... Alfredsson got old, didn't he?

I recall every elite player I've ever watched making mistakes in key games, it's called elite sports. Pretty sure there's a Jordan quote about just that ("I've missed 40,000 shots...").

You watched the Bills tonight. Do you like Josh Allen for his 300+ yards and multiple TDs, or hate him because of his 3 turnovers in the red zone?

Conflating preference with fact is silly. That's all I'm suggesting. You don't like Marner. Great. Enjoy disliking him.

I've seen him do more good and great things than bad things... That's kinda what HOF type careers look like... and, like Alfredsson, Marner plays for a team I dislike, so I too enjoy watching his missteps. I just don't mistake that for meaning that he's a bad player, nor fool myself into thinking I wouldn't love to have a player of that ability in our lineup. Marner is, and has been, better than any forward we've had in our lineup since he got into the league. As of today, it'll be a big stretch to see any of our current players match, let alone exceed his level of play.

Hate on that all you want, not sure what purpose it serves.

Great night to you, hope you're in as good mood as I am, sincerely! (thanks to Josh and his mistake filled teammates

Dude’s a HOFer no doubt. But so is Joe Thornton. I wouldn’t want to build my team around him either.

As for conflating facts… I posted them for all to see. That’s not a guy I want leading my club. Even just looking at those numbers it’s bad. But his mistakes in big games are too frequent to ignore.

I mean I hated tons of guys but would love them on my club. Kucherov for example. Guy is money in the playoffs but I can’t stand him.

 

[Deus ex machina]

News came out this week that Toronto may have offered a 6th recently for Jake and that Hughes is looking for more.

My point is that I wanted us to keep deSmith, and so far, that appears to have made some sense. His lifetime stats are better than any of the goalies we already had, so his results this year so far do not surprise me.

That rumor come out over 2 months after the DeSmith trade.
I don't think that Allen was tradable at the time of that trade.
People are freaking out because they still have 3 goalies. Imagine what it would be like with 4 for 2 months...lol

Hugues made a promise to DeSmith that he would try to trade him quickly. That's what he did.

I'm not sure how you can criticize Hugues when you're basing yourself on rumors and conjectures.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

That rumor come out over 2 months after the DeSmith trade.
I don't think that Allen was tradable at the time of that trade.
People are freaking out because they still have 3 goalies. Imagine what it would be like with 4 for 2 months...lol

Hugues made a promise to DeSmith that he would try to trade him quickly. That's what he did.

I'm not sure how you can criticize Hugues when you're basing yourself on rumors and conjectures.

Adding another goalie would be hilarious. It’d be like us getting all the Pitlicks.

 

[themilosh]

You don’t think the best goal scorer is benefitting playing with one of the best playmakers?

Call him soft all you want, he would still easily be the Habs best forward since Naslund. Don’t really care about his dad. Hoffman has a crazy wife, that didn’t change anything.

He thinks he's worth Matthews money.. unless we have two of the best Cs in the league, Marner would be no different than a Newhook on oyr team.

 

[Miller Time]

Well…


Dude’s a HOFer no doubt. But so is Joe Thornton. I wouldn’t want to build my team around him either.

As for conflating facts… I posted them for all to see. That’s not a guy I want leading my club. Even just looking at those numbers it’s bad. But his mistakes in big games are too frequent to ignore.

I mean I hated tons of guys but would love them on my club. Kucherov for example. Guy is money in the playoffs but I can’t stand him.

And you wouldn't have wanted Thornton?

To each their own.

I hated Dan Marino. He never one a title. Remains one of the best ever, better than Kelly. To je to

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

And you wouldn't have wanted Thornton?

To each their own.

I hated Dan Marino. He never one a title. Remains one of the best ever, better than Kelly. To je to

I’d DeRozan Marner if I were TO.

It worked for the Raptors.

 

[BaseballCoach]

Adding another goalie would be hilarious. It’d be like us getting all the Pitlicks.

We had 3+1 NHL goalies and 5 contracted goalies all together. We did not want to go into the season with only 3.

The obvious best play hockey-wise was to go into training camp and have a competition or the jobs. I do think Allen could have been traded for a pittance even then. We also could have moved Primeau for a waiver-exempt B goalie for TR, or a B prospect, and waive Allen.

The $2.7M hit for Allen is less than the Pearson hit.

The "promise" to trade the best goalie was only given because of Hughes' excessive loyalty to Allen. He could not bring himself to assure Casey he would keep him if he earned the role because he was already committed to Allen even if Jake would not earn the role.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

He thinks he's worth Matthews money.. unless we have two of the best Cs in the league, Marner would be no different than a Newhook on oyr team.

I think Marner’s uber talented. I don’t think it matters who his center is, he’s a HOFer.

But he’s not a killer the way Subban, Kucherov, Gilmour are/were. And in the playoffs he just shrinks as the games get harder. The Leafs already have Matthews and Nylander is actually their best playoff guy. I’d deal Marner++ for a guy like Matthew Tkachuk if I could. That guy’s a killer.

 

[HuGort]

I am also very curious about having 6 D that can be considered NHL ready that are 23 or younger. (added Mailloux to make a bigger number). Also have Reinbacher and Hutson.

Can't wait for that ball to start rolling.

I would trade one of our young LD for a young first line forward. Habs need a big time goal scorer up front. Also gives more options at draft. This draft is stacked with first pairing right D. Patekh would look nice at 10-12th. Yakemchuk I like also. Jiricek I don't know about but most draft pundits on here like him.

If we draft around 10-12th, probably best forward be Ritchie or Connelly. Who might be fine player but doubt first linet

 

[Deus ex machina]

We had 3+1 NHL goalies and 5 contracted goalies all together. We did not want to go into the season with only 3.

The obvious best play hockey-wise was to go into training camp and have a competition or the jobs. I do think Allen could have been traded for a pittance even then. We also could have moved Primeau for a waiver-exempt B goalie for TR, or a B prospect, and waive Allen.

The $2.7M hit for Allen is less than the Pearson hit.

The "promise" to trade the best goalie was only given because of Hughes' excessive loyalty to Allen. He could not bring himself to assure Casey he would keep him if he earned the role because he was already committed to Allen even if Jake would not earn the role.

You're probably right about the last part.
But Hughes treats players like human beings. It's the right thing to do and it might pay off later.

Again, you're making assumptions that Allen was tradable at the beginning of the year. You just don't know.
I have serious doubts. Cap space was very scarce around the league. MTL got a 3rd just for taking on 1.45M in the Pearson trade.

Not sure it's as simple as comparing the two cap hits, but it doesn't matter. They have plenty of cap space.

Is DeSmith that much better than Allen?
That's debatable. They don't play for the same team.
But there's a reason Pittsburgh got rid of him. And it probably wasn't just to gain 300K in cap space.

 

[TheBuriedHab]

I would trade one of our young LD for a young first line forward. Habs need a big time goal scorer up front. Also gives more options at draft. This draft is stacked with first pairing right D

The problem is none of our young LHD have that type of value, unless they trade Guhle.

You have to wait another year and hope some of them breakout. Until then you are selling low on all our young D.

 

[HuGort]

The problem is none of our young LHD have that type of value, unless they trade Guhle.

You have to wait another year and hope some of them breakout. Until then you are selling low on all our young D.

Probably another Dach caliber player I had in mind. We Move a left D. Be good trade for Montreal. Makes us more inclined to draft a D this June. Helps us in 2 areas

 

[nhlfan9191]

I think Marner’s uber talented. I don’t think it matters who his center is, he’s a HOFer.

But he’s not a killer the way Subban, Kucherov, Gilmour are/were. And in the playoffs he just shrinks as the games get harder. The Leafs already have Matthews and Nylander is actually their best playoff guy. I’d deal Marner++ for a guy like Matthew Tkachuk if I could. That guy’s a killer.

It seems like the Leafs are doubling down on Matthews, Marner and Nylander. There are no Tkachuk’s available. They’re essentially doing what we did during the Price era only with forwards. I don’t see it ending well for them. They have to many holes.

 

[TheBuriedHab]

Probably another Dach caliber player I had in mind. We Move a left D. Be good trade for Montreal. Makes us more inclined to draft a D this June. Helps us in 2 areas

Guhle is the only one that holds that type of value right now though.

 

[Miller Time]

I’d DeRozan Marner if I were TO.

It worked for the Raptors.

I'm sure if they could move Marner for McDavid, they would... Kinda a no brainer, no?

 

[HuGort]

Guhle is the only one that holds that type of value right now though.

I don't know about that? Guhle ice time has slide behind Struble at the moment

 

[TheBuriedHab]

I don't know about that? Guhle ice time has slide behind Struble at the moment

You are talking about one game dude.

Romanov was traded for the 13th overall pick. You think Struble could fetch that right now?

I think if the Devils put Dawson Mercer on the block that fits into that Dach mold, the only Habs D that could get him would be Guhle.

 

[le_sean]

You are talking about one game dude.

Romanov was traded for the 13th overall pick. You think Struble could fetch that right now?

I think if the Devils put Dawson Mercer on the block that fits into that Dach mold, the only Habs D that could get him would be Guhle.

I don’t see the Devils making that trade. They don’t need more defencemen with the likes of Hughes, Nemec and Hamilton already on their team. Meanwhile they are going to lose Toffoli to free agency, they need Mercer’s offence. I think the only thing holding them back is a top goaltender.

 

[TheBuriedHab]

I don’t see the Devils making that trade. They don’t need more defencemen with the likes of Hughes, Nemec and Hamilton already on their team. Meanwhile they are going to lose Toffoli to free agency, they need Mercer’s offence. I think the only thing holding them back is a top goaltender.

Yeah probably not, value wise though it makes the most sense in a vacuum.

 

[Pat Riot]

You are talking about one game dude.

Romanov was traded for the 13th overall pick. You think Struble could fetch that right now?

I think if the Devils put Dawson Mercer on the block that fits into that Dach mold, the only Habs D that could get him would be Guhle.

I think Struble or Harris attached to Calgary first round pick could be a sufficient combo to trade for a young offensive player. I would prefer to trade Harris personally

The Kings need a goalie. Maybe we could send them Allen with picks or Harris and try to get Kaliyev. We need a RW and he has untapped potential

 

[le_sean]

Yeah probably not, value wise though it makes the most sense in a vacuum.

Definitely does make sense in a vacuum. The Habs offence would be pretty good (assuming everyone is healthy).

 

[TheBuriedHab]

I really doubt the Stars would trade him but Mavrik Bourque has taken off in the AHL. 41 points in 31 games. He's 22 and fits our timeline. The Stars are just stacked everywhere.

We have a glut of defenseman. I don't even know if they need a defenseman but Struble for Bourque is an idea.

 

[BaseballCoach]

You're probably right about the last part.
But Hughes treats players like human beings. It's the right thing to do and it might pay off later.

Sure, but performance plays into it. I'm pretty sure Hughes dikd not foresee that almost halfway through the seasonm we would be 4 games above .500 with Monty and 4 games under .500 with Allen, and Primeau at .500, while deSMith would have a .917 SVP.

I did foresee those things. In this case I was right (so far) and those of you thought Hughes was right have to hope for a turnaround (don't get me wrong, I would love for Allen to start winning games and up his trade value. My ego can handle it.

Again, you're making assumptions that Allen was tradable at the beginning of the year. You just don't know.

I have serious doubts. Cap space was very scarce around the league. MTL got a 3rd just for taking on 1.45M in the Pearson trade.

So take on Pearson if you have to.

Not sure it's as simple as comparing the two cap hits, but it doesn't matter. They have plenty of cap space.

The goal would have been to be rid of Allen for next year so we can reinvest in talent, while competing much better this year. Yes, it's a non-tanking strategy, but:

a. that's the only strategy we are allowed to use in this thread
b. Hughes was not aiming to purposely lose more games, no matter what the tank crowd thought.

Is DeSmith that much better than Allen?
That's debatable. They don't play for the same team.

Yes, clearly better. 5 year sample size.

But there's a reason Pittsburgh got rid of him. And it probably wasn't just to gain 300K in cap space.

Double-edged argument to make.

Am I allowed to say "There's a reason Saint Louis got rid of Allen"?

My actual take is that PIT wanted to go younger and had goalies capable of saving over .910. OTOH, we had Monty and Primeau, with less proven track records than Jarry, and a vet was good to have. Allen filled that role, but deSmith is better, cheaper, and could be let go after the season if he did not meet expectations if Primeau proved he could do the job long term with Monty.

 

[Pat Riot]

I really doubt the Stars would trade him but Mavrik Bourque has taken off in the AHL. 41 points in 31 games. He's 22 and fits our timeline. The Stars are just stacked everywhere.

We have a glut of defenseman. I don't even know if they need a defenseman but Struble for Bourque is an idea.

Ideally we would need a center who shoots left.