HF Habs: Trade Proposal Thread #85 - Offseason Editon

[Lockin17]

Maybe I’m too optimistic here…but I think Hoffman could put up 20-25 goals and get us a return if we retain half at the tdl….

Is it worth playing him over an nhl ready prospect….no

I do agree , Hoffman is a great player when put in a good spot with decent player.
Much better then Armia .
Newhook-Monahan-Hoffman on a third line could get him going

 

[Lockin17]

I don't really get the obsession with Laf.

If you have 3 full seasons under your belt and your 3rd isn't even any different really than your 1st, I think it screams plateau not hidden potential.

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Laf started playing in the NHL at 18 year old ,, keep that in mind
Most of great prospect starts in the NHL at 20 or 21 , of course they get a better start in the NHL.
But almost at 0.5 pg at 20 years old is not bad at all.
Next year he will hit 50 points with 20 goals then the next 70 with 30 goals mark my words

 

[Deebs]

Laf started playing in the NHL at 18 year old ,, keep that in mind
Most of great prospect starts in the NHL at 20 or 21 , of course they get a better start in the NHL.
But almost at 0.5 pg at 20 years old is not bad at all.
Next year he will hit 50 points with 20 goals then the next 70 with 30 goals mark my words

Who between Panarin or Kreider is he going to replace to get those points?

 

[sampollock]

I'm surprised we haven't had 100 pages of Lafreniere yet...

Sorry, I just started it...

hahahaha
don't worry a thread will start soon......

 

[Lockin17]

Who between Panarin or Kreider is he going to replace to get those points?

Kreider is going down on the third line

 

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

I don't really get the obsession with Laf.

If you have 3 full seasons under your belt and your 3rd isn't even any different really than your 1st, I think it screams plateau not hidden potential.

View attachment 731656

I mean, Newhook has only played 2 seasons, but his 1st season was slightly better than his 2nd season.

They're in the same boat, maybe there's more they can give.

At least this way Laf will have a 4th season to know if those assets would have been wasted, or not.

 

[Habs Halifax]

The issue with trying to get rid of Hoffman is that he needs to be playing in the top 6 to put up any sort of numbers that will entice a trade. However he just doesn’t fit in the top 6 when the team is healthy.

Hoffman playing bottom 6 or top 6 does not affect his value. He is a vet and everyone knows what is his game. Soft winger who has a good shot

This is a flat cap growth problem. Moving salary without taking salary back or retaining is very difficult. Might start to become better for the 24/25 season when the cap grows.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I think you can pull off a deal if the offer is Ylonen + Harris + a 1st round pick in 2024. Nothing below that, IMO and maybe having to throw in COL's 2nd round pick in 2024 as well, or another forward prospect on the cusp of making the NHL (maybe Mesar, that would be seen as another 1st round pick).

If a 2024 1st is required and we really want to take a chance on Lafreniere (like Dach), just offer sheet him at $6.4M for one season with handshake deals on what the extension could be after it (like Kotkaniemi). Rangers would not be able to match it.

Or trade for our 2nd rounder back with the Jets and offer sheet him at $4.2M.

Ylonen, Harris, and a 1st with a possible 2nd added is too much considering the circumstances.

 

[Kosseca]

Laff in MTL would be the new Drouin.... hard pass

 

[Habs Halifax]

Laff in MTL would be the new Drouin.... hard pass

The past does not equal the future. Lafreniere could disappoint yes but I dislike the French narrative.

 

[rahad]

Or he doesn't want to play there, which could indicate he doesn't want to play in Canada.

Seriously, we are going to need to increase the cap for the Canadians teams. USA born player want to leave Canada and go back to the USA. Canadian born player rarely choose to come back home.

 

[Pietrangelo]

Hoffman playing bottom 6 or top 6 does not affect his value. He is a vet and everyone knows what is his game. Soft winger who has a good shot

This is a flat cap growth problem. Moving salary without taking salary back or retaining is very difficult. Might start to become better for the 24/25 season when the cap grows.

The difference between 20 points and 50 points is quite large once trade deadline rolls around. Regardless of teams knowing what his value is, if he’s not producing during the season, no one is going to take him at the TDL. Whereas if he’s putting up some decent numbers, teams often have the mindset of “looks like he still might have something, let’s take the risk”

And let’s be honest, he isn’t putting up 40-50 points with players like Armia and Evans on his line.

 

[Habs Halifax]

The difference between 20 points and 50 points is quite large once trade deadline rolls around. Regardless of teams knowing what his value is, if he’s not producing during the season, no one is going to take him at the TDL. Whereas if he’s putting up some decent numbers, teams often have the mindset of “looks like he still might have something, let’s take the risk”

It's not going to fool anybody who knows anything about hockey bud. Maybe it changes the return from a 6th rounder to a 3rd or 4th. Whip dee doo.

This is a salary cap issue. Hoffman is who he is at this stage of his career. Placing him in the top 6 to get better value is not something I see working.

 

[Kosseca]

The past does not equal the future. Lafreniere could disappoint yes but I dislike the French narrative.

While you may think like that, other -and more importantly the media -dont.

His name would be Gurianov and he would be given a change and people would just leave him alone if he didn't meet their expectations.

Being a QC born player, people would find 1000s reasons to explain why he's not succeding - including management and coaching staff, before turning on him. So unless he's very succesful, it's a lose-lose proposition.

 

[Habs Halifax]

While you may think like that, other -and more importantly the media -dont.

His name would be Gurianov and he would be given a change and people would just leave him alone if he didn't meet their expectations.

Being a QC born player, people would find 1000s reasons to explain why he's not succeding - including management and coaching staff, before turning on him. So unless he's very succesful, it's a lose-lose proposition.

You either believe in his potential or you don't. Fans/Media are a factor but Slaf will have the same pressure and he don't speak French. Sorry, I don't like the language narrative.

It's about winning and performing well. If he has a season like Dach did last year, fans/media come around. If not, then we do our nit pick/focus/obsession thing. The same pressure put on Caufield will be put on Guhle, Slaf, Reinbacher and none of them are French.

 

[HABitual Fan]

Not flawed when not working well. How many teams have spent damn near the full two minutes in our zone these past couple of seasons? It's a lot easier to play 1:40-1:50 minutes whe you have complete control. Our PP changes up at about a minute because we've had to retrieve the puck two or three times. One of our issues is found at the dot. Suzuki for one has to get much better and we also need to have far more winger wins. Secondly trying to provide assets for two waves when you don't have the talent for one wave is just stupid. Far too many breakdowns at the weak link(s) it's inevitable. The PP has to get fixed this season there are no longer any acceptable excuses. No Gallagher No Anderson No Hoffman I'd even go as far as saying No Matheson if he fails to distribute the puck in a timely fashion and wastes shots. For me we have euunough talent now to get this done and if we don't it's an epic fail.

The power play will improve only when the roster has a Markov level distributor and a legit shooting threat paired up with him. Until then it is predictable and easy to shut down. We have players in the pipeline with that potential but none here yet.

 

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

Seriously, we are going to need to increase the cap for the Canadians teams. USA born player want to leave Canada and go back to the USA. Canadian born player rarely choose to come back home.

That's mostly based on how people are raised now.

Players want their money, but don't want the pressure to perform. A lot of people can't handle the pressure.

Winning the cup in Montreal, or Toronto who trump anywhere in any sport imo.

However, it's been 30 years and it's a low probability that you'll win, so would you rather go somewhere in the southern US, get paid, enjoy great weather and have no expectations from the fans, or play in Canada where you're expected to do your job ?

Seems like a pretty easy choice to me.

 

[rahad]

That's mostly based on how people are raised now.

Players want their money, but don't want the pressure to perform. A lot of people can't handle the pressure.

Winning the cup in Montreal, or Toronto who trump anywhere in any sport imo.

However, it's been 30 years and it's a low probability that you'll win, so would you rather go somewhere in the southern US, get paid, enjoy great weather and have no expectations from the fans, or play in Canada where you're expected to do your job ?

Seems like a pretty easy choice to me.

100%!

Seriously, John Tavares has probably one of the fews Canadian born player going back home. Player want to play in the south with great weather, lower taxes and lower pression. Bettman focusing 100% of his time developing team in the USA... Is getting harder and harder for Canadian team to attract superstar.

 

[HABitual Fan]

The only problem here is that neither Kidney nor Struble would be an adequate incentive, if an incentive at all.

Let the Rangers have their pick from a slough of prospects, including one D and one forward.

Let them pick one of the LDs that will ultimately be boxed out of the lineup if all goes to plan. One from:

Harris, Barron, Struble, Trudeau or that Russian overeager we selected in 2023.

At forward, I'm not saying all of these prospects are A-1 incentives to make the trade, but the rangers did choose Balej, one year, for a certain Kovalev, if I recall correctly:

Ylonen, Kidney, Mesar, Rohrer, Kapanen, Tuch

So, Latest 2025 1st round pick from Montreal's or CAL's, 2024 COL 2nd round pick acquired in the trade of Lehkonen (Montreal lost theirs in the trade for Dvorak), one of the Ds listed above (I could see them choose Harris who is signed for two years at only 1.4M per year) and one of the forwards listed (Mesar amounts to another 1st round pick, but Kapanen could be the surprisingly best player of those 6 listed).

IMO, even if the Rangers pick the best of both the Ds and Fs, Montreal has enough depth to still ice an equal or better roster than with those two players.

Losing Harris definitely won't come back to bite us in the arse, but losing one of Cesar, kapanen or Kidney, could.

Yet, you can't give crap for lafrenière, especially since NY sees MON as the local market vying for a local product and must feel like they have leverage.

Lafreniere's value is a late first at best if he actually was what we are looking for. He doesn't fit because he can't skate. Prefer dealing the assets for a player that actually fits what we are building not a player closer to being a 3rd line grinderthan a 1st overall.

 

[Scriptor]

The power play will improve only when the roster has a Markov level distributor and a legit shooting threat paired up with him. Until then it is predictable and easy to shut down. We have players in the pipeline with that potential but none here yet.

Matheson - Gule might work out, actually. A poor man's version?

 

[WeThreeKings]

I mean, Newhook has only played 2 seasons, but his 1st season was slightly better than his 2nd season.

They're in the same boat, maybe there's more they can give.

At least this way Laf will have a 4th season to know if those assets would have been wasted, or not.

Yes but the key is the 3rd season.. now there can be something like an injury in Dach's case and even physical maturity, which is why I loved that bet.

But Laf was "NHL ready" at 18, he's played 3 full NHL seasons and 2 play-off runs.. and he's not progressed meaningfully anywhere and nothing about his skill-set at the NHL hints at something underlying.

He's not a gamble I'd pay for because it really just looks like he plateaud early and there's not a single skill advantage he has over someone in the NHL, which is why he is producing like a 3rd liner.

 

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

Yes but the key is the 3rd season.. now there can be something like an injury in Dach's case and even physical maturity, which is why I loved that bet.

But Laf was "NHL ready" at 18, he's played 3 full NHL seasons and 2 play-off runs.. and he's not progressed meaningfully anywhere and nothing about his skill-set at the NHL hints at something underlying.

He's not a gamble I'd pay for because it really just looks like he plateaud early and there's not a single skill advantage he has over someone in the NHL, which is why he is producing like a 3rd liner.

Same, except I wouldn't have tried with Newhook, but I got a plate of crow ready to eat if he becomes something pretty good.

 

[WeThreeKings]

Same, except I wouldn't have tried with Newhook, but I got a plate of crow ready to eat if he becomes something pretty good.

I at least see where they are coming from there, he was playing center which isn't where he should be playing, and he brings an element of speed to the wing that we don't have.

I didn't love the price paid, I think we should have gotten a 3rd or something back, or done the 1st and a 3rd ourselves but I think there's more to the gamble here than there would be to pay to acquire Lafreniere.

I'd be more inclined to target Boqvist out of Columbus.

 

[the]

What is this obsession with offer sheets? I thought we were done being a clown organization?

 

[Habs Halifax]

100%!

Seriously, John Tavares has probably one of the fews Canadian born player going back home. Player want to play in the south with great weather, lower taxes and lower pression. Bettman focusing 100% of his time developing team in the USA... Is getting harder and harder for Canadian team to attract superstar.

Winning and future outlook changes everything. Tavares does not go home if the Leafs didn't have a bright future.

There is a Canadian factor but we do like to recycle our coaches/GM's more often than the averages in the US. Is there less patience to rebuild properly in Canada? I believe so and this is a problem. This is not a Betman issue, it's the media/fans in Canada and how aggressive we can be.... players do avoid that because some members of the media and fans take it too far. Several players have talked about this over the years.

How often does a good player like Tavares reach UFA? Not often. This is about someone like M Tkachuk wanting out of the Flames when they had a good team with him. However, I suspect it had something to do with their inability to retain Gaudreau as well.

What is the list? Lets quantify it?
M Tkachuk
Gaudreau
Who else comes to mind when we talk top tier talent that wanted out of a Canadian city.