HF Habs: Trade Proposal Thread #84: Off-Season edition

[Leon Lucius Black]

Hopefully one of the 732 conditions in the Monahan trade is Calgary must keep Darryl Sutter as coach until 2025/2026.

 

[BaseballCoach]

Externalities happen… injuries and cap crunches… Yknow?

He was worse and worse after his second season in Nashville.

 

[Runner77]

Not much. And, they'd have to retain.

I'd do Armia for Mantha, with 20% retained (about $1.15m), and Boston's 2024 3rd round pick.

That still leaves us with a higher cap it, $4.55m, but we're compensated with one less contract year & a pick.

Also, Washington has next to no right shot forwards.

Armia has an even longer contract and is a worse player. Maybe flipping a Hoffman or Edmundson might do it and then the Habs could deal Mantha at the trading deadline.

 

[Miller Time]

That's been happening here on HF habs for years, it doesn't even matter if the player in question is past his prime or simply a castaway from another organization.

The appeal/interest for a "local" player isn't unique to montreal... happens in every pro sport and in every market.

Where the market is more intense, the desire for and scrutiny of "local" talents is higher. What sets montreal a bit a part is the even more intense appeal for culturally "local" talent, given the franchophone isolation on the continent... totally understandable... people want to have "someone like them" to cheer for and celebrate.

The other part, which is (or should be) part of the management consideration, is the potential postiive impact of a local talent "coming home"... it can lead to both performance impacts and leverage in contract negotiations. As much as our market is a deterrent to some players given the language and climate realities, it can also be a draw for some (Dubois seems to fit that bill), so it only makes sense that the org. would prioritize targeting those opportunities.

The appeal of playing for the habs and in a hockey mad market like montreal is something that is a big draw for some players. Where MB was unbelievably dense and tone def to that (See PK, Jagr), i think this management group gets it and i suspect we'll see some occasional targeted signings/trades that factor this into the equation (i suspect that had at least something to do with the Matheson addition).


I'm bilingual and have deep roots in quebec (family tree dates back to first french settlers), but my interest in us exploring every avenue of leveraging the appeal our market might have is purely about the potential benefit that leveraging local ties can bring in building the best roster possible.

A guy like Mantha, on a 1-year "show me" trial, is totally worth exploring imo.... if he doesn't fit in or benefit from playing in the market, so be it, we move on. Much rather test him out next year in our top-9 than see Hoffman there again or continue trying out Gurianov. If we can swap him for either of those two (or Armia), i'd be all for it.

 

[Runner77]

I don’t know how Armia’s name keeps coming up in so many fake trades. Habs would have to pay to move him, he’s not an asset. He’s overpaid, over-termed and sadly, over here (assuming Hughes will not want to cough up assets to get rid of him).

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

Armia has an even longer contract and is a worse player. Maybe flipping a Hoffman or Edmundson might do it and then the Habs could deal Mantha at the trading deadline.

Probably what would happen is that whoever the Habs trade will have a better season and bring more in trade than Mantha.

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

Food for thought since Monahan was brought up:

Is there a case to say that the Monahan deal cost us a bottom 4 spot in this year's draft (pre-lottery)?

Monahan had points in 6 games that ended up a W by one goal.
More importantly, he provided depth beyond a single line, like we've had since Christmas. 17 points in 25 games.
Removing all 12 points (unrealistic) puts us in a 3-way tie for last.

If we're looking at it from this point of view, a likely pick 10-20 OA in 2025 doesn't excite me much - quite a frustrating outcome provided we didn't get assets at the TDL. I'm saying pick 10-20 because the only way we get a top 10 pick with all these conditions, is if both CGY and FLA are in the bottom 10.

We may look back in a few years with a starless roster thinking this is where we missed out on a franchise forward. So on brand with this franchise's luck. This just feels like we won the trade but we aren't improving, like in the Bergevin era.

Of course if we win a lottery all will be forgotten and forgiven.
We could even call it Kwisatz Haderach level planning.

If Monahan wasn't there then Heineman or RHP could have made the team and played a full season in the nhl, which could have led to more wins.

 

[Miller Time]

I don’t know how Armia’s name keeps coming up in so many fake trades. Habs would have to pay to move him, he’s not an asset. He’s overpaid, over-termed and sadly, over here (assuming Hughes will not want to cough up assets to get rid of him).

Makes him an ideal candidate in a deal for someone like Mantha.

Caps quite clearly will be aggressively trying to improve roster this summer (Ovie's window is almost closed, and unless they trade him, I can't see him or Leonsis tolerating a few years of rebuild).

They need cap space, but also to bolster their roster. A Mantha / Armia swap would create 2M$ in cap room now, while adding a bottom 6 winger that, while overpaid, is still an everyday NHL roster player.

Cap going up next few years softens the blow of the extra year on Armia's deal & no reason to expect his current level to drop off much if at all in that time

 

[Team_Spirit]

This is really an unfair post, have you been around all season?

Yes. Why is it unfair?

 

[ReHabs]

He was worse and worse after his second season in Nashville.

He was only there for three years, and amazing for two of them!

 

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

Such a franchise player that after his third year in Nashville, they gave him away for peanuts.

Actually Nashville tried to trade Subban away after the cup run and the next off season, too.

I need to find who said that, but it came out when he was dealt to New Jersey and a higher up person reported it.

 

[Runner77]

Makes him an ideal candidate in a deal for someone like Mantha.

Caps quite clearly will be aggressively trying to improve roster this summer (Ovie's window is almost closed, and unless they trade him, I can't see him or Leonsis tolerating a few years of rebuild).

They need cap space, but also to bolster their roster. A Mantha / Armia swap would create 2M$ in cap room now, while adding a bottom 6 winger that, while overpaid, is still an everyday NHL roster player.

Cap going up next few years softens the blow of the extra year on Armia's deal & no reason to expect his current level to drop off much if at all in that time

Why take on a player with more contract years than Mantha, who disappears on most games? If the offer is Armia, I hold on to the turd I know and have in Mantha and create cap room right away next season.

I just can’t see the appeal of trading for Armia, unless the team acquiring him is being significantly compensated.

 

[DAChampion]

Such a franchise player that after his third year in Nashville, they gave him away for peanuts.

Don't be disingenuous, it's not a good look.

Subban was an amazing player and everybody knows it even if they deny, he just began to decline rapidly sometime around 2017 due to poor physical health.

While Subban was healthy, he contributed to two conference finals with the Habs, a Cup final with Nashville, he won a Norris and was a finalist for another Norris.

And even when Nashville traded Subban, they didn't keep any cap space, New Jersey took on his full 9 million dollar contract and gave up a pair of second rounders. The fact that trade looks bad is largely because Nashville squandered the cap space on Matt Duchene.

 

[Beer and Chips]

Yes. Why is it unfair?

"Gee this team sucks!" posts piss me off. I'll just ignore them from now on.

 

[26Mats]

Question on twitter and i was wondering what the answer would be here: Pick no 5 and Slafkovsky vs Pick no 2. You do it or not?

Easy yes

 

[MarkovsKnee]

Armia has an even longer contract and is a worse player. Maybe flipping a Hoffman or Edmundson might do it and then the Habs could deal Mantha at the trading deadline.

Armia can penalty kill, and is far better on the forecheck then Mantha. Mantha doesn’t do anything. He did however have a brilliant turnover to Malkin in a play that absolutely ended Washington's playoff hopes.

As someone else said, Mantha is another Drouin just bigger. Armia will put up around 10 goals a season & pk. He doesn't actively hurt you. He's just not a big help usually, whereas Drouin/Mantha will lose you games over the course of the season due to turnovers, poor defensive coverage and lackluster play.

 

[Runner77]

Armia can penalty kill, and is far better on the forecheck then Mantha. Mantha doesn’t do anything. He did however have a brilliant turnover to Malkin in a play that absolutely ended Washington's playoff hopes.

As someone else said, Mantha is another Drouin just bigger. Armia will put up around 10 goals a season & pk. He doesn't actively hurt you. He's just not a big help usually, whereas Drouin/Mantha will lose you games over the course of the season due to turnovers, poor defensive coverage and lackluster play.

Armia disappears most games, he hurts you in the opportunity cost of rostering someone better in his place who actually shows up and who is paid what he’s worth. I’d rather have Mantha for the expiring contract next season and on the odd chance he plays the whole season or most of it. Nobody will pay you for what Armia brings, with 2 more years to go on his deal.

 

[MarkovsKnee]

Armia disappears most games, he hurts you in the opportunity cost of rostering someone better in his place who actually shows up and who is paid what he’s worth. I’d rather have Mantha for the expiring contract next season and on the odd chance he plays the whole season or most of it. Nobody will pay you for what Armia brings, with 2 more years to go on his deal.

I mean you can argue the rostering thing with Mantha too. I think he's far, far worse of a player than Armia. And, at $5.7m vs $3.4m.

We'll see if Washington can actually do anything with him. Mantha will be as much in demand at TDL as Drouin and Hoffman this year, which is none.

If we ever did trade for him, and my expectation of that is 0%, I'd look at him as a player who's with us for the year.

 

[Wats]

Question on twitter and i was wondering what the answer would be here: Pick no 5 and Slafkovsky vs Pick no 2. You do it or not?

As much as I think Slafkovsky will be regretted as a 1st overall pick, not sure Fantilli is so elite than you give up potentially 2 cornerstone pieces (assuming we take Reinbacher or Smith with #5...or if we're somehow lucky Michkov). Now if it is 1st overall, I'd even add the FLA 1st.

 

[Miller Time]

Why take on a player with more contract years than Mantha, who disappears on most games? If the offer is Armia, I hold on to the turd I know and have in Mantha and create cap room right away next season.

I just can’t see the appeal of trading for Armia, unless the team acquiring him is being significantly compensated.

The why is the urgency to free up cap space to reload/improve right away. Ovie has 3 seasons left on his deal and at his age, playoffs next year will be the expectation...

I think it's clear the Caps will be aggressive this summer & moving Mantha will likely be a priority.

If they can do it without taking any contract back, I'm sure they would... But how many teams will without demanding a 1st or 2nd, or sending some other cap dump their way? They'll need to keep those assets if they want to make actual roster upgrades.

Armia, for his warts, is a better alternative to most 4th line options and can play decent 3rd line role. He's maybe 1.4M overpaid for what he brings but that amount will be less of a factor as the cap rises the following year...

For next season, Armia + 2.3M$ in cap space > Mantha @ 5.75M cap hit for a team in that kind of situation, imo

 

[Runner77]

The why is the urgency to free up cap space to reload/improve right away. Ovie has 3 seasons left on his deal and at his age, playoffs next year will be the expectation...

I think it's clear the Caps will be aggressive this summer & moving Mantha will likely be a priority.

If they can do it without taking any contract back, I'm sure they would... But how many teams will without demanding a 1st or 2nd, or sending some other cap dump their way? They'll need to keep those assets if they want to make actual roster upgrades.

Armia, for his warts, is a better alternative to most 4th line options and can play decent 3rd line role. He's maybe 1.4M overpaid for what he brings but that amount will be less of a factor as the cap rises the following year...

For next season, Armia + 2.3M$ in cap space > Mantha @ 5.75M cap hit for a team in that kind of situation, imo

Agree to disagree. I see Armia as a cap dump/ buyout candidate. What a frustrating player to roster.

 

[MrNasty]

If anyone hasn't already, I encourage playing with the ArmChair GM feature on Capfriendly.
IF we assume that Montreal lets all 10 UFAs in Montreal and Laval walk, the two teams still don't have enough roster spots on both Montreal and Laval to keep everyone. I made the assumption that all RFA's got resigned but still...we desperately need to move out bodies and the team is primed to add quality over quantity if the opportunity arises.
The 50 draft picks over the last 4 years is catching up to them.

 

[HuGo Sham]

As much as I think Slafkovsky will be regretted as a 1st overall pick, not sure Fantilli is so elite than you give up potentially 2 cornerstone pieces (assuming we take Reinbacher or Smith with #5...or if we're somehow lucky Michkov). Now if it is 1st overall, I'd even add the FLA 1st.

I want a winger or C in the top 5, but Reinbacher being called by some as the best dman since Yosi to come out of Switzerland has caught my attention

 

[Miller Time]

Agree to disagree. I see Armia as a cap dump/ buyout candidate. What a frustrating player to roster.

lol... i think the general consensus of both fan bases is that Mantha is also a cap dump... that's kinda the point

 

[Habs]

"Gee this team sucks!" posts piss me off. I'll just ignore them from now on.

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