HF Habs: Trade Proposal Thread #84: Off-Season edition

[BaseballCoach]

Happy that someone asked because i lost some time looking dailyfaceoff this afternoon. I think to find an other situation like dach will be difficult… A team that will value a first because they want to garnish their prospect pool but will drop a 20ish player makes little sens (i still scratch my head to the Blackhawks, Hope they don’t win the lottery)…
I’m not sure the Blue Jackets are ready to pass on Cole Sillinger at 19-20, but if they draft a center and they don’t see an upgrade (poor management), they maybe want to recoup on it. I Hope we don’t try our hand on Alex Turcotte (too many concussions)…
Maybe Arizona are feverish on first and trade Victor Soderstrom (don’t see it)
Don’t see Red Wings trade there big man Soderblom even if he realize that he left the retool too soon (Bobrov will cream for this skill big man)
Maybe goalers stuck in their club

PLD fit the narrative

Yeah, PLD does.

Speaking of young players who0 might be or have been available, and we know this boat has sailed, but I wonder if today we would have been better off with 23 yo Kotkaniemi and a 2nd, with KK signed for 7 more years at $4.82M versus 27 yo Dvorak and a 3rd, with Dvorak signed for 2 more years at $4.45M?

When the season was starting I was down on KK, but he has picked his game up in CAR. I wonder how he would have done in the MSL environment?

 

[Zilo44]

Yeah, PLD does.

Speaking of young players who0 might be or have been available, and we know this boat has sailed, but I wonder if today we would have been better off with 23 yo Kotkaniemi and a 2nd, with KK signed for 7 more years at $4.82M versus 27 yo Dvorak and a 3rd, with Dvorak signed for 2 more years at $4.45M?

When the season was starting I was down on KK, but he has picked his game up in CAR. I wonder how he would have done in the MSL environment?

Dvorak is useless. It depends how you see KK’s contract.

 

[BaseballCoach]

Dvorak is useless. It depends how you see KK’s contract.

For a 23 yo 3C signed until the end of his age 29, if he can produce 0.5+ ppg, maybe it would have fit our group.

 

[Miller Time]

For a 23 yo 3C signed until the end of his age 29, if he can produce 0.5+ ppg, maybe it would have fit our group.

He's going to be a good, if not very good top 6C well before this deal expires, making him a great value at that cap hit.

 

[DAChampion]

If Hughes genuinely believes this team is at least 2-3 years away, then you'd have to think Anderson and Matheson need to get traded soon. Anderson is turning 29 in 2 months, in 2-3 years he will be 31. Guys depending on athleticism are prone to breaking down a lot sooner even though I think he will be fine throughout his contract. Same thing with Matheson and he will also need a new contract by that time too.

Both are great players and we shouldn't trade them for anything, but that's the same age we traded Toffoli since he didn't fit our timeline. Toffoli went for a late first and a B prospect and is producing at a 74 point pace right now with the Flames. I'm sure the main idea was to just get a 1st and a prospect to prevent us from being a middling time and instead accumulate better picks, so you have to wonder why shouldn't the same apply to Anderson and Matheson. I'd even argue that Toffoli would have aged better since he depends on hockey IQ instead of athleticism.

I would say Dvorak too but I doubt he has much value. Maybe if we take on a contract he can get a 1st.

The Habs also traded Toffoli because of cap space and because Calgary's offer was excellent.

I don't think that Matheson and Savard should be traded. It would be too risky to have an all rookie blue line.

 

[Habs Halifax]

He's going to be a good, if not very good top 6C well before this deal expires, making him a great value at that cap hit.

I think there is little gains from season to season but the true evaluation with KK comes beyond points.

* His faceoff % is above 50%. That's a good thing.
* Giveaways/60 still needs improvement
* Right now, the Canes are using him in a offensive role (64% of Offensive zone starts with 64% Corsi for).

When you consider he's not being used at a 50/50 zone slip, I would expect to see higher lever of offensive numbers.

But yeah, who knows how he improves more and more as each season moves along. We can only speak for what we see today

The Habs also traded Toffoli because of cap space and because Calgary's offer was excellent.

I don't think that Matheson and Savard should be traded. It would be too risky to have an all rookie blue line.

Agreed. Toffoli and Lehkonen did help create the cap space we needed. If one of them was not traded, we would have not had the room for Monahan and the Coyotes might have the Flames 1st.

Fast forward to today, our cap space opens up a lot for next season. I think Eddy might be the only guy getting moved. Lots of room to sign Caufield and Dubois if the sign/trade develops.

We are not rushing trades on players with term. Patience is how we get the best returns. Patch from back when and Petry last summer is two good examples.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Dvorak is useless. It depends how you see KK’s contract.

Ideally, we unload Dvorak to a contender who has the cap space to fit him in. He's not useless but does he fit our style of play with MSL? That's the issue with me.

Overpaid slightly and it's still a flat cap. Possible he goes in the Dubois trade but it's very possible he rides out that term with us and we trade him as a pending UFA in the last year. That allows us time to develop other centers.

My ideal situation is Dvorak goes in the Dubois trade and we sign Monahan to a low AAV with performance base factored in where it maxes out at Dvorak's current cap hit.

 

[Sterling Archer]

The Habs also traded Toffoli because of cap space and because Calgary's offer was excellent.

I don't think that Matheson and Savard should be traded. It would be too risky to have an all rookie blue line.

I don't know why some want to trade Matheson and Savard. Matheson is by far our best D and has been a point machine and going into his prime.

Savard has been a very steadying force on the backend and takes a lot of stress of the youngsters.

Both have good contracts and are not an issue against the cap, while any replacements would likely be more expensive anyways. They are both must keeps while Eddy is the odd man out. Habs already have too many rookies in the lineup and sheltering them should be of the utmost importance for the next while until they grow into the roles and can take the burden themselves. Neither contract or player are impeding the youngsters growth and in fact, are helping them learn the ropes.

 

[Andy]

It looks like the habs are starting to get a surplus of prospects that could play at the nhl level. Combine that with a couple of excess picks, I think it's pretty clear that HuGo will try to fill a big hole via trade in the off-season. The habs have the assets.

 

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

The only prospects I don't trade are Hutson, Farrell, Mailloux.

Everyone else is expendable in order to get better.

Beck, Roy, Kidney, Heineman, Struble, Harris etc, I include in trade packages for whomever can improve our team.

 

[salbutera]

The only prospects I don't trade are Hutson, Farrell, Mailloux.

Everyone else is expendable in order to get better.

Beck, Roy, Kidney, Heineman, Struble, Harris etc, I include in trade packages for whomever can improve our team.

And those are likely the only 3-prospects other teams will focus on when it comes to trade talk for established talent aka PLD

 

[BaseballCoach]

The only prospects I don't trade are Hutson, Farrell, Mailloux.

Everyone else is expendable in order to get better.

Beck, Roy, Kidney, Heineman, Struble, Harris etc, I include in trade packages for whomever can improve our team.

I would add Dobes to the list of prospects to hold until and unless an even better G prospect is on our books.

 

[JRichard]

Carter Hart could fit the U25 mold and Flyers would want firsts (and is rumored to be available)

Nobody on Philly front office mentioned he was or acted like he was.
Not trading him for a late 1st or second thats for sure, what would be the point?

Montambeault improved and can improve some more but Hart 2 yrs younger has no future as a number one g?

you might remember the 2020 playoffs, 2 straight shutouts at Bell? Mtl scored 13 goals in 6 games.

Goalie on a bad teams kills your « basic » goalie stats.

 

[sampollock]

there is a whole PLD chat thread

I think Kent will use his panther pick and a player to upgrade to a player that is already playing, like the Dach deal. He loves that way, excellerates the rebuild

 

[salbutera]

Carter Hart could fit the U25 mold and Flyers would want firsts (and is rumored to be available)

I don’t whatsoever see Danny boy dealing Hart unless it’s clear he is unwilling to sign after his current contract expires after next season when he’s eligible for UFA

 

[morhilane]

It looks like the habs are starting to get a surplus of prospects that could play at the nhl level. Combine that with a couple of excess picks, I think it's pretty clear that HuGo will try to fill a big hole via trade in the off-season. The habs have the assets.

Not really, they have a surplus of prospects who are going to start their pro career. Most of them should be in the AHL next season.

 

[JRichard]

Not really, they have a surplus of prospects who are going to start their pro career. Most of them should be in the AHL next season.

Yeah there is one more step: minor pro. And then there is the real next step: NHL
See Cayden Primeau. Great NCAA and then…

 

[ML16]

Except that's not what he said. Rishaug was specifically asking about "a reasonable timeline to get firmly into that playoff discussion and be a regular on the playoff scene." Not contention, being a payoff team. Which is as different as being the Devils this season and being the Jets this season.

And prior to providing a 2-3 year timeline, he also qualified his comment by saying "its hard to pinpoint because its not just what [the Habs] do but what others do."

I finally got access to the full article and I have to concede; the 2-3 years timeframe is indeed regarding playoff status, not contention; thanks for the pointing it out!

 

[calder candidate]

Yeah, PLD does.

Speaking of young players who0 might be or have been available, and we know this boat has sailed, but I wonder if today we would have been better off with 23 yo Kotkaniemi and a 2nd, with KK signed for 7 more years at $4.82M versus 27 yo Dvorak and a 3rd, with Dvorak signed for 2 more years at $4.45M?

When the season was starting I was down on KK, but he has picked his game up in CAR. I wonder how he would have done in the MSL environment?

I think we be better of with KK sure he is over paid right now but he doesn’t have that big of a step to earn that contract + he could actually become a bargain over the 7 years but worst case 3rd line center with size, ok defensively and some offensive ability he is over paid by around 1.5M$, best case he will be under paid by 3m$… but MTL didn’t have any choice KK wasn’t signing a extension here, KK wanted out and he forced us way out, the question is more would we be better of without Dvorak keeping the picks.

 

[ML16]

It looks like the habs are starting to get a surplus of prospects that could play at the nhl level. Combine that with a couple of excess picks, I think it's pretty clear that HuGo will try to fill a big hole via trade in the off-season. The habs have the assets.

2023-2024 should be for forwards what 2022-2023 was for defencemen.

The successful integration of 4 NHL-caliber prospects on D this year must not be underestimated; it’s one of the main reason why the Habs can reasonably hope to expedite their rebuild.

Not only does it enable the Habs to ice a 15M D corps for the next 2-3 years, alleviating the current overpayments on forwards, but the upcoming influx of quality prospects on D can likely keep the wheel of this organizational strength turning - providing assets (Edmundson, Harris, etc.) to trade to bolster organizational weaknesses

Next year, the Habs should thus similarly aim to make room and integrate 3-4 young forwards - 2023 top-7; Farrell, RHP, Ylonen/Roy? - to start consolidating their core and identify what needs must be fill with assets outside of the organization via « quality vs quantity » trades and UFA siginings 2-3 years from now.

 

[Scriptor]

Tavares has 343 points in 349 games with the Leafs, and scored 139 goals in the same period. That's a pace of 35g, 80.5 points over 82 games during his tenure with the leafs.

I would say he's well worth the money, considering the amount other centres in the league are making and that was the contract signed during UFA, not his post entry level deal.

The issue is that global economy was such that impacted the cap rising at a certain pace.

In any event, I don't even think the leafs have been missing that much the last 5 seasons to compete. They've literally had really poor match ups in the playoffs, and lost a couple of 1st rounds due to just bad luck.

If tha bad luck is management not building a winner, sure. Bad D, bad goaltending, bad depth. The Gazillions forked over for three players doesn't help, but that's still on management.

 

[Scriptor]

Your original claim was that Pezzatta on the 4th line means you aren't a contender which is much different then saying a 4th line(r) can make a difference in the playoffs. Your original statement was that if Colorado was using Pezzetta on their 4th line then you wouldn't consider them contenders, it wouldn't matter that they have MacKinnon, Makar, and all their other stars, Pezzetta is so bad that he would sink their chances. It's absurd.

Seriously? That's your take?

You're truly insinuating that I meant having someone better than Pezzetta is the cornerstone of building a contender ABOVE talent on the three lines before that because I said that, once the team is supposed to contend, you should have better than Pezzetta.

You're arguing to argue, then and you are arguing semantics in bad faith.

I think it's clear that I mean that a contender, with the other pieces in place, should/could have better than Pezzetta on a 4th line to be at its best.

 

[Habs Halifax]

there is a whole PLD chat thread

I think Kent will use his panther pick and a player to upgrade to a player that is already playing, like the Dach deal. He loves that way, excellerates the rebuild

It's very possible that Gorton/Hughes may low ball the Jets if they know 100% that Dubois will wait for us if we can't come to terms on a trade. And we know that they already talked with Brisson.

The other angle is trying to put yourself in the shoes off all GM's on contending teams (other than the Jets or Habs). If they also know that Dubois will not sign past one year with them, do they even offer a Horvat trade value? I'm pretty sure Lou knew in advance that he had a good chance at getting Horvat to sign and for that reason, he paid the price. Most GM's go after rentals with the intentions of extending them. It's not typical to see a Panthers trading for Chiarot and Giroux where they likely knew they couldn't keep them due to cap space. Jets banking on that plan has more risks than some fans realize.

GM's do get aggressive but man... Dubois has asked out of Columbus and told the Jets he will not sign past his RFA years. Trade for him for just the one year? Not impossible but it's not like there will be 5+ teams willing to do it.

 

[Sorinth]

Seriously? That's your take?

You're truly insinuating that I meant having someone better than Pezzetta is the cornerstone of building a contender ABOVE talent on the three lines before that because I said that, once the team is supposed to contend, you should have better than Pezzetta.

You're arguing to argue, then and you are arguing semantics in bad faith.

I think it's clear that I mean that a contender, with the other pieces in place, should/could have better than Pezzetta on a 4th line to be at its best.

So what did you actually mean when you said "Seriously, if this guy is a 4th liner when we are contenders, we aren't contenders."

 

[Scriptor]

@Scriptor just loooooves typing words into the machine… like… he loves it a lot

Wait, that sounds personal, so it must be. I just don't understand what you're trying to get at. Explain, please, so I can respond appropriately...

I think Pezzetta is nice to have but as an extra forward. Not as a full time 4th liner.

I can definitely agree with Pezzetta as a 13th forward.