HF Habs: Trade Proposal Thread #84: Off-Season edition

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Can we all agree to not do this in advance? Wishful thinking right?

If Dubois is traded somewhere else and signs with them... Fans who don't want to talk about Dubois or trade for him will say, see told you so.

vs

If Dubois is traded to the Habs on draft day, fans who are talking about it will say, see told you so.

Do you have an autogrphed Canadiens Wright jersey??

Diamonds don't shine, they reflect so it was wrong all along. :laugh:

 
Hughes also said it's fluid and it requires balance. He said a lot so don't cherry pick.

However, I am on record at saying that the next 3-5 years is more transition/rebuild years. The rebuild is only over when the holes become less and less and the team creeps into the top 10 and makes the playoffs consistently. So his 2-3 years at least is accurate. That don't mean we won't trade for Dubois. He's not some age 28+ asset and I recall some fans saying we should trade for Meier and I said no. See the difference?

There is about a 8 year age gap between Dubois and the 2024 picks. That's a good range and I would not stretch it beyond that. I believe there is 8 years between Hedman/Stamkos and Point/Sergachev. ;)

I’m not cherry picking he literally said it’s gonna be another 2-3 years in a interview he did at the GMs meeting couple of days ago.

I never said you were against any form of rebuild either.

A 25 years old, 8.5m Dubois might or might not be in their plan, they have to look at the futur and be smart with the cap too. But acquiring him is not the same as acquiring Dach, Barron, Heineman, even if he is also somewhat young enough.
 
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Goaltending problem?

Am i the only one who believe Montembeault is part of the solution?

GSAx/xGA tells us that Montembeault is a top 15 in the NHL. It also tells us that he is better than f***ing Carter Hart here who people would love if we traded for him (f*** no!). He is one victory away from playing for .500% with this shitty ass team.

Those are objectivable metrics.

From a subjective perspective, i believe someone in Monty's position will take the next step.

He is a local and it is probably his dream to be the Habs starter. There is no medium term competition for the number one spot. He wants it, he just has to get it. It is served on a silver platter.

This being said, i would like us to draft Bjarnasson, Fowler or Hrabal, even Trey Augustine.
 
I’m not cherry picking he literally said it’s gonna be another 2-3 years in a interview he did at the GMs meeting couple of days ago.

A 25 years old, 8.5m Dubois might or might not be in their plan. But acquiring him is not the same as acquiring Dach, Barron, Heineman.

It's cherry picking cause he also said other things and one word that was said a lot was balance. However, I did support the 2-3 years cause my 3-5 years or more rebuild/transition is pretty much the same. Did he say at least 2-3 years or another 2-3 years? :sarcasm:

Dubois is about 2.5 years older than Dach and we traded someone we really liked on D for him who was also young.

Not all pieces in our rebuild will come from the draft. That's what Hughes means when he used the word "balance"
 
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Don't see the goaltending situation change any time soon because of how good Monty is playing and the stupid extension that Allen got.

RHD is something to look at because I'm not optimistic about both Mailloux and Barron being top 4 dmen on the same team.
 
It's cherry picking cause he also said other things and one word that was said a lot was balance. However, I did support the 2-3 years cause my 3-5 years or more rebuild/transition is pretty much the same. Did he say at least 2-3 years or another 2-3 years? :sarcasm:

Dubois is about 2.5 years older than Dach and we traded someone we really liked on D for him who was also young.

Not all pieces in our rebuild will come from the draft. That's what Hughes means when he used the word "balance"
You’re talking about things he said last year or the start of the year to try and say i cherry pick. I’m talking about what he said this week.

He also said he won’t make moves to make them that much better next season, there’s that.

I never said all our pieces are gonna come from the draft, either. We just don’t agree on what kind of pieces. We know Hughes is willing to acquire young players, he said it again in the same interview, a Dubois who needs a big contract is another story, though. We’ll see soon enough.
 
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You’re talking about things he said last year or the start of the year to try and say i cherry pick. I’m talking about what he said this week.

He also said he won’t make moves to make them that much better next season, there’s that.

I never said all our pieces are gonna come from the draft, either. We just don’t agree on what kind of pieces.

I remember all comments, not just the flavor of the month.

Dubois is not 28 or 29 and is 2.5 years older than Dach. You're trying to make it a black/white situation too much bud.

I can see us not trading for him and waiting for UFA or I can see us trading for him. So yeah, it's not black/white and Gorton/Hughes get to talk to Brisson, we can't.
 
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If that's the case, why would Dubois agent let him sign an extension earlier? Why wouldn't he advise his client that he should wait until there's a much clearer idea of what the cap will be because it could be much more lucrative?
These are the kind of incisive questions that piece through to the core of a topic.

Naturally, we should surmise Caufield, Bratt, Dunn, Debrincat, etc will not sign long extensions come this summer.

Brilliant analysis.
 
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Let’s change the focus on that RHD need we have.

I think we will need a solid top 4 to support Barron and probably Mailloux eventually.

For me, the perfect acquisition would be Rasmus Andersson in Calgary. Not sure if he becomes available in the next two years but looking at how Calgary is trending, he might be.

But his profil fits the bill imo. Big solid 2-way RHD that can play on the PP and the PK. 22-25 minutes. He would be the stabilization force with Guhle, and the go to guys when ahead at the end of the game. Good for 50-55 pts per season.

His actual salary is pretty interesting and shouldn’t be the kind of D that can ask for 8M$ per on his next contract.

Thoughts?
 
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Let’s change the focus on that RHD need we have.

I think we will need a solid top 4 to support Barron and probably Mailloux eventually.

For me, the perfect acquisition would be Rasmus Andersson in Calgary. Not sure if he becomes available in the next two years but looking at how Calgary is trending, he might be.

But his profil fits the bill imo. Big solid 2-way RHD that can play on the PP and the PK. 22-25 minutes. He would be the stabilization force with Guhle, and the go to guys when ahead at the end of the game. Good for 50-55 pts per season.

His actual salary is pretty interesting and shouldn’t be the kind of D that can ask for 8M$ per on his next contract.

Thoughts?
Rasmus Andersson probably cost a Guhle to acquire.
 
I’ll break down my perspective and you tell me where you disagree

1. The Habs do not have first pick at premium FAs. Many times in the last decade the very best FAs have publicly not considered the Habs as a viable destination — notably Stamkos and Tavares, but the Habs have certainly failed to entice many other premium FAs as well.

2. PLD is considered a premium FA

3. It is assumed that, unlike other premium FAs who would not even pick up the phone, PLD would consider joining the Habs

4. When the premium FAs did not join, the Habs had to shift cap-spending priorities elsewhere. For some years of the last years of Weber’s and Price’s prime the Habs spent nowhere close to the max cap for instance. Other times they picked up cap dumps like Jake Allen and Joel Armia instead of spending that cap on premium players… for lack of viable options.

5. Therefore it is not a given that there is a viable second option toward PLD’s cap commitment that has the pts-TOI-caphit profile as PLD. What I mean to say is that it is less likely there is a single other premium player who can be a viable alternative to PLD — viable, as in we can actually imagine him joining us.

The above argument, simply put, says that PLD should be considered a viable target much like how when Tavares was entering his UFA season many Habs fans were day-dreaming about signing him.

If you accept that PLD is a viable acquisition target, then the only two arguments left are: (a) with his prospective contract terms, is he a good acquisition for the Habs? and (b) what is the cost threshold for acquiring him through a trade this summer

(a) is a simple argument: it’s almost a matter of taste — do you figure he’s worth the cap hit and term he’s going to get?

(b) is another simple argument: what’s the most you would trade to WPG in order to acquire him this coming summer?

If WPG would trade him for a 3rd Round Pick, there wouldn’t be any complaints about waiting until summer 2024 would there?

So, if you think he’s worth the likely 8m cap hit for 7 or 8 years, what’s the most you’d trade in summer 2023 to acquire PLD? That’s the discussion.

I’d be less sarcastic if it wasn’t so bitterly ironic — we had one of the worst managers in the NHL for the last ten years and his motto was “I won’t mortgage the future” while all he did was squander the present and not build for the future.

At some point this fanbase has to look at the evidence and accept that magic beans and empty cap space are worth a lot less than premium NHL players. Cap space and draft picks don’t win NHL games, players do. And premium players help win playoff series!

’d easily trade magic beans and a chunk of cap space for a player of PLDs profile, wouldn’t you?

Maybe you're right, thanks for the long message, but it doesn't change my mind; because our vision clashes over abondance vs. scarcity. I've always been an hopeful guy, an optimist, you probably got the vibe. Now I do understand a section of society tends towards more cynical views, which is fine because in the end you need alchemy. Just don't let your cynicism eat you alive, you want hope too. Imho, if you build a contender, you naturally attract players such as Dubois.
 
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PLD is turning 25 in June, he will be in prime years for the next 5-8 years. I bloody well hope to God we will be fighting for the Cup in that time frame.

This year closes out year 2 of the rebuild.

It is impossible to add pieces exactly as you wish, you have to go with the flow and answer when opportunity knocks.

PLD is not a star, but he is a very good player that will make the team better for years to come. We should get him at a bit of a discount anyway, if the Habs are the team he wants to play on. Adding him makes us stronger at the top6C position and that is a big deal Sure maybe a C has to play on the wing, or maybe we pull the trigger on a trade one day for a big missing piece with our abundance of centers.

To summarize;
-he fills a position of need at the top 6C spot, a core position
-he is a good solid player-
-he fits what I understand the team identity is that HUGO wants, a big, fast, skilled team
- may get him at a discount

Now if the Jets bottom line is too steep, then no. If PLD wants a ridiculous amount to extend, then no. But maybe we can be the Rangers for once and take advantage of a player seeing us as a destination.
It's actually Year 1. Last year, Bergevin's plan was to compete, that's why he added players like Hoffman.
 
Goaltending problem?

Am i the only one who believe Montembeault is part of the solution?

GSAx/xGA tells us that Montembeault is a top 15 in the NHL. It also tells us that he is better than f***ing Carter Hart here who people would love if we traded for him (f*** no!). He is one victory away from playing for .500% with this shitty ass team.

Those are objectivable metrics.

From a subjective perspective, i believe someone in Monty's position will take the next step.

He is a local and it is probably his dream to be the Habs starter. There is no medium term competition for the number one spot. He wants it, he just has to get it. It is served on a silver platter.

This being said, i would like us to draft Bjarnasson, Fowler or Hrabal, even Trey Augustine.
Monty would need to show consistency next year as well but the backup job is his to lose.
 
Goaltending problem?

Am i the only one who believe Montembeault is part of the solution?

GSAx/xGA tells us that Montembeault is a top 15 in the NHL. It also tells us that he is better than f***ing Carter Hart here who people would love if we traded for him (f*** no!). He is one victory away from playing for .500% with this shitty ass team.

Those are objectivable metrics.

From a subjective perspective, i believe someone in Monty's position will take the next step.

He is a local and it is probably his dream to be the Habs starter. There is no medium term competition for the number one spot. He wants it, he just has to get it. It is served on a silver platter.

This being said, i would like us to draft Bjarnasson, Fowler or Hrabal, even Trey Augustine.
Monty for me will become a good #2 but I don<t see him being a starter and goal 50 games and + by season
 
Monty for me will become a good #2 but I don<t see him being a starter and goal 50 games and + by season
Agreed. Maybe that changes but I still think Habs need a young(ish) goalie to build around along with the core. Monty would make a very capable backup, but I don't see him as a long term solution as a starting goalie. Definitely an NHL calbre player though, right now.
 
Let’s change the focus on that RHD need we have.

I think we will need a solid top 4 to support Barron and probably Mailloux eventually.

For me, the perfect acquisition would be Rasmus Andersson in Calgary. Not sure if he becomes available in the next two years but looking at how Calgary is trending, he might be.

But his profil fits the bill imo. Big solid 2-way RHD that can play on the PP and the PK. 22-25 minutes. He would be the stabilization force with Guhle, and the go to guys when ahead at the end of the game. Good for 50-55 pts per season.

His actual salary is pretty interesting and shouldn’t be the kind of D that can ask for 8M$ per on his next contract.

Thoughts?
Andersson is a great fit, but I don't see him coming here cheap. Maybe not ideal for team control with his contract too. Might have to go younger or UFA if we want to depend on someone for 5+ years.

I've been thinking a lot about potential fits at RD and the more I look at our prospect pool, the greater potential I see for us to not have to make a move. I think we've gravely underestimated the development of some of our young players.
 
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Andersson is a great fit, but I don't see him coming here cheap. Maybe not ideal for team control with his contract too. Might have to go younger or UFA if we want to depend on someone for 5+ years.

I've been thinking a lot about potential fits at RD and the more I look at our prospect pool, the greater potential I see for us to not have to make a move. I think we've gravely underestimated the development of some of our young players.
I doubt any of our long term needs will be solved through free agency. At least not this year or next.

KH will keep acquiring picks and prospect capital and make moves on younger players still under control.

Unfortunately for us our biggest needs are high end skill, top pairing D and goaltending. None of which are easy to acquire via trade. Hopefully one of Dobes/Dichow pans out.
 
I doubt any of our long term needs will be solved through free agency. At least not this year or next.

KH will keep acquiring picks and prospect capital and make moves on younger players still under control.

Unfortunately for us our biggest needs are high end skill, top pairing D and goaltending. None of which are easy to acquire via trade. Hopefully one of Dobes/Dichow pans out.
A large number of Goalies are always available by trade or FA.
 
Let’s change the focus on that RHD need we have.

I think we will need a solid top 4 to support Barron and probably Mailloux eventually.

For me, the perfect acquisition would be Rasmus Andersson in Calgary. Not sure if he becomes available in the next two years but looking at how Calgary is trending, he might be.

But his profil fits the bill imo. Big solid 2-way RHD that can play on the PP and the PK. 22-25 minutes. He would be the stabilization force with Guhle, and the go to guys when ahead at the end of the game. Good for 50-55 pts per season.

His actual salary is pretty interesting and shouldn’t be the kind of D that can ask for 8M$ per on his next contract.

Thoughts?
There is zero chance the Flames trade him. He's their most valuable player. I do agree we need a top 4 dman though, I'd look into Boqvist.
 
Goaltending problem?

Am i the only one who believe Montembeault is part of the solution?

GSAx/xGA tells us that Montembeault is a top 15 in the NHL. It also tells us that he is better than f***ing Carter Hart here who people would love if we traded for him (f*** no!). He is one victory away from playing for .500% with this shitty ass team.

Those are objectivable metrics.

From a subjective perspective, i believe someone in Monty's position will take the next step.

He is a local and it is probably his dream to be the Habs starter. There is no medium term competition for the number one spot. He wants it, he just has to get it. It is served on a silver platter.

This being said, i would like us to draft Bjarnasson, Fowler or Hrabal, even Trey Augustine.
I’d take the goalie 2yrs younger instead of a backup with more AHL games vs NHL but its just me. Most goalie stats charts have Hart in the 10-15 range and Sam in 25-30.

But if you are going to play same 8 dmen next year ( i believe thats the great plan), might as well play Sam and get a better pick again. Things will not be better with same group. Might lose 5-3 instead of 5-1…

Dmen: Guhle, Barron, Harris, Kova, X, Matheson, Savard, Edm.
G: Sam and Allen

29th in ga\g. 27th gf\g
 
These are the kind of incisive questions that piece through to the core of a topic.

Naturally, we should surmise Caufield, Bratt, Dunn, Debrincat, etc will not sign long extensions come this summer.

Brilliant analysis.

Have any of the players you mentioned stated they do not want to stay with their current club and that they intended to explore unrestricted free agency?

Because Dubois has made that publicly known, and to the best of my knowledge, none of Caufield, Bratt, Dunn or DeBrincat have not ... so, what point do you think you're making here?

How is it possible that you make a snarky "brilliant analysis" comment while simultaneously not having a clue what you're talking about?
 
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