HF Habs: Trade Proposal Thread #80

[Kobe Armstrong]

Duclair will likely go on LTIR giving Fla some spend margin.

He had 30 goals last year and only makes 3million, so not exactly a good thing for them.

He should be back midway through the season so they will still be tight to the cap

 

[Sasha Orlov]

Yall act MSL is the god of coaching. He turned up Caufield last season and that's about it.

He still sure didn't manage to make Anderson or Gallagher relevant. Let alone the PP

He’s the god of coaching not God himself

 

[Scotianhab]

Duclair will likely go on LTIR giving Fla some spend margin.

He’ll help for awhile. Not sure who else was brought in beside Tkachuk but they’ve lost some pieces.

Marchment
Huberdeau
Weegar
Chiarot
Duckair (IR)
Giroux

 

[Doc5]

One added bonus of our Florida 1st round pick is that the Panthers have 6.5M in dead cap this season, resulting from the Keith Yandle and Scott Darling buyouts.

So they are really operating on a 75m hard cap.

That's a hefty deadcap for a contending team to carry, and will definitely handicap their moves. Plus they no longer have much to offer futures wise.

Yup agreed. The teams with their 2024 and 2025 firsts (Flyers and Flames) are even more fortunate, I expect the Panthers to be even worse during those seasons.

 

[DougHarvey]

What you can control is to draft BPA.
The entire team beyond 3 players are washed

Our prospect pool isn't even that good .

The difference this time there is no Carey Price to save the GMs job.

No change but to rebuild by finishing last .

No goalies prospect.
Traded the only young nhl def we had.
We are not gonna be competitive because MSL is coaching and that we drafted a guy that wont ever score 25 goals in the NHL and a 21 year olds center who screams 3rd line at best .

Shred the cap , draft by best available and endure it. We are not going anywhere in the next 3 years anyways . Might as well get those top 5 picks and continue to develop.

Wow ! It's not like you to be negative.

 

[aresknights]

I wrote MSL but I should have said Habs management and not only MSL.

They seem to want to develop talent and putting effort on that so it could make sense that they try to do that with Dubois since he just turn 24.

I've never understood people thinking it's just the HC that determines a players development.
The collective under n around the HC has more influence in total. Your right it's the whole group (AC, trainers, skills developement coaches, physio, nutritionists, psych, family and most of all the actual player.........)

 

[Scriptor]

Yall act MSL is the god of coaching. He turned up Caufield last season and that's about it.

He still sure didn't manage to make Anderson or Gallagher relevant. Let alone the PP

Caufield, Dvorak, Petry... There might be another? In fact, the whole team stepped up with MSL as head coach.

Calling a rookie coach in his first full season (coming up) the ùGod of coaching is quite premature, but saying he had zero effect on the Habs when he came aboard is disingenuous.

 

[Scriptor]

I've never understood people thinking it's just the HC that determines a players development.
The collective under n around the HC has more influence in total. Your right it's the whole group (AC, trainers, skills developement coaches, physio, nutritionists, psych, family and most of all the actual player.........)

The prime directive - the head coach's game plan or philosophy - is the most important impact on player development at the NHL level. If you're a creative offensive player and you're caught in a cardboard box of a game plan where you need to play within this zone and nowhere else -- and you get benched or see your ice time reduced when you veer the slightest bit say from that game plan, you're not developing at your best.

Th either things are important, but in a supporting role. Being allowed to express your talents on the ice is the most important factor to consider and the head coach factors in HUGE when it comes to that.

 

[waffledave]

Trading Florida's 1st rounder would be a complete and total braindead move. Can't get much stupider than that.

This pick is so huge. Literally anything can happen now. If Tkachuk isn't producing out the gate there will start to be some bad sentiment forming. And even more if Bobrovky starts to falter. These guys need to be strong from the get go. This team cannot afford to start slow. They may not be able to overcome a challenging start. They seem a bit fragile after this PO.

 

[waffledave]

Letting MSL develop Dubois for the next 2 years and not let his development in the hands of Winnipeg

I like MSL and I think he may very well end up being a special coach who can get guys to hit the next level. But for now there is very little evidence of this being the case. Things to be optimistic about, absolutely, but we need to remember this is a rookie coach. Like super rookie, very green, basically no experience. In some ways we need to let him develop as a coach. I don't expect him to elevate the game of more than 1 or 2 players at a time at this stage in his career. He's still learning, he himself says this.

 

[aresknights]

The prime directive - the head coach's game plan or philosophy - is the most important impact on player development at the NHL level. If you're a creative offensive player and you're caught in a cardboard box of a game plan where you need to play within this zone and nowhere else -- and you get benched or see your ice time reduced when you veer the slightest bit say from that game plan, you're not developing at your best.

Th either things are important, but in a supporting role. Being allowed to express your talents on the ice is the most important factor to consider and the head coach factors in HUGE when it comes to that.

I disagree. I think the hours n hours n hours between games where at most you get 20 min a night are more important to your development. That's just my opinion.
Takes a village....
And the HC directive or philosophy is also influenced heavily by GMs, AGMs, ACs and analytics groups, support staff....... as it should be. Again JMO.

 

[Runner77]

Letting MSL develop Dubois for the next 2 years and not let his development in the hands of Winnipeg

Dubois needs development? He's a proven 2C with 60 point ability. Can he elevate his offensive game? I don't see why not but it would be more a function of experience, linemates, ice time and being deployed in offensive situations.

For me, development is more appropriate for those freshly entering the league or who are in their early 20s but have not been able to realize a significant part of their upside (like a Dach, for example).

Maybe I'm wrong but I don't think a 24 year old who has found his game and is expressing his talent, needs development. It's more a matter of opportunity, it seems to me.

 

[waffledave]

I disagree. I think the hours n hours n hours between games where at most you get 20 min a night are more important to your development. That's just my opinion.
Takes a village....
And the HC directive or philosophy is also influenced heavily by GMs, AGMs, ACs and analytics groups, support staff....... as it should be. Again JMO.

You also cannot underestimate the impact of simply playing with talented and driven players. Just practicing with these guys, being around them, seeing how they train, eat, act.

 

[Natey]

Yall act MSL is the god of coaching. He turned up Caufield last season and that's about it.

He still sure didn't manage to make Anderson or Gallagher relevant. Let alone the PP

Gallagher was hurt so many times last year. Let's see what he can do with a full season.

Anderson, well, when your hockey IQ is that low, not much MSL can do. Anderson, in my opinion, is bad because he's a mediocre scorer who is loved for his size but can't play defense. And the offense isn't enough to cover that. If he was better defensively, I would be a fan.

 

[waffledave]

Dubois needs development? He's a proven 2C with 60 point ability. Can he elevate his offensive game? I don't see why not but it would be more a function of experience, linemates, ice time and being deployed in offensive situations.

For me, development is more appropriate for those freshly entering the league or who are in their early 20s but have not been able to realize a significant part of their upside (like a Dach, for example).

Maybe I'm wrong but I don't think a 24 year old who has found his game and is expressing his talent, needs development. It's more a matter of opportunity, it seems to me.

I agree. Dubois has almost 400 games in the NHL. His development was done 160 games ago. That being said, I do see enough in his game to show that there is another level he can reach in the right environment, but doubt it is a long term thing. Maybe like 4 good seasons and then a harsh fall down to 50-60 points on a good year.

 

[Omar]

I understand the rationale of bottoming out to tank but to me this is conflating the ends with the means. The goal is to build a team that features elite talent and can compete for a cup, not strictly to build an elite core through the draft. Tanking is usually the best and most efficient way to acquire elite players, but that doesn't mean you should pass up elite players available through other means if the cost is reasonable or at the very least palatable.

I just don't really get the apprehension here because we're going to be bad next year no matter what and the 2023 draft is loaded with Cs. Signing Huberdeau next July doesn't prevent us from being bad between October-April and picking high in June.

We already have Suzuki, Dach, and Dvorak at the moment with Jake Evans in place as a good depth C, and we're going to be bad again and pick high in a 2023 draft that is loaded with top C prospects. I'm honestly just rather unsure about what your standard is here in terms of what building the middle properly means, because having Suzuki/Dach in place and then drafting Bedard/Fantilli/Yager/Carlsson high in 2023 and possibly trading for Dubois next summer if those options don't work out sounds like pretty much exactly what we would hope for in terms of developing young and high-end C depth.

Maybe we just got mixed up here, because again I'm talking about signing Huberdeau next summer, and that wouldn't impact our 2023 pick at all. If you think the Habs still need to tank for 2023-24 then fair enough, but that's going to be an agree-to-disagree situation as I don't see that as desirable or necessary. Next year should be the end of the tank phase IMO.

I’m alright with signing him next July. Just not acquiring neither him nor Dubois before that.

 

[Runner77]

Exactly. That is the main benefit from getting Dubois as early as possible. But it would have to be at a reasonable price.

It's a bit of a catch-22 since it doesn't appear that we can land Dubois without expending assets that we can ill afford to part with -- at least, that's the feeling I get. Granted Dubois is not Tkachuk but I suspect that's the type of return on a slightly lesser scale, that Peg can garner if they traded him at large.

And what if we don't acquire him now, is Dubois going to regress? Well, it hasn't exactly impacted him negatively to play in the Peg. At worst, he'll still be the same guy two years from now but at best, he'll have added more experience, played with pretty good linemates and will have become a better player who the Habs can sign as a UFA.

I don't think there is a reasonable price to be had for Dubois. Chevy has been in this rodeo before -- he's not going to be reasonable cause he doesn't have to and cause someone in the market, like the Panthers paid to get Tkachuk, will likely rise to the surface at the opportune time and pay for Dubois.

Just like Treliving knows, the odds of retaining Huberdeau on a long term deal are slim to none. The guy likes to go to the arena in flip flops. So, at some point, Treliving will have to make another move. But at least, he didn't end up with nothing, as with Gaudreau. Same for Chevy -- he'll get something from a team that thinks they can sign Dubois long term.

Let's see what happens to Dubois' allegiances when a destination team comes calling -- one with great weather, low taxes and limited media scrutiny.

 

[Galaxydoggystyle]

Chariot and Giroux don’t really count
They were doing just fine before the deadline
So they’ve lost marchment who had a career year and got paid and weagar
Tkachuk is equivalent to Hurbedeau
Fla may not finish first, they will make the playoffs

Have you looked at there defence? It is pretty damn bad and if injuries happen to that defence especially Ekblad there chances into the playoffs goes down quite a bit.

 

[Runner77]

It’s clear as day after today’s presser, PLD is gonzo from Jets and Chevaldayoff’s trading him… not a question of IF but WHEN

We don't know which Chevy will show up.

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

Have you looked at there defence? It is pretty damn bad and if injuries happen to that defence especially Ekblad there chances into the playoffs goes down quite a bit.

The only way Florida misses the playoffs is if they have multiple major injuries to their good players. We could say that for any team.

Otherwise, you don't go from best team in the league to missing the playoffs just because you lost Weegar and Marchment.

 

[BigDaddyLurch]

The only way Florida misses the playoffs is if they have multiple major injuries to their good players. We could say that for any team.

Otherwise, you don't go from best team in the league to missing the playoffs just because you lost Weegar and Marchment.

...Tkachuk is not the player Huberdeau is, Duclair is out, that D looks almost US bad...they scored at an unsustainable rate last year, imo...our Division is BY FAR the toughest in the NHL; Ottawa got a ton better, Detroit got better, Buffalo looks better...and then there's Bob; the most erratic two-time Vezina winner in memory...even without any other major injuries/hurtles, Florida could miss the Playoffs...

 

[The Great Weal]

I wonder if Calgary is interested in a Anderson for Weegar+extension swap

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

Ottawa is taking floridas playoff spot boys! (i wish)

 

[Nico Cauzuki]

The only way Florida misses the playoffs is if they have multiple major injuries to their good players. We could say that for any team.

Otherwise, you don't go from best team in the league to missing the playoffs just because you lost Weegar and Marchment.

We went from being in the finals to finishing last

 

[Scriptor]

I disagree. I think the hours n hours n hours between games where at most you get 20 min a night are more important to your development. That's just my opinion.
Takes a village....
And the HC directive or philosophy is also influenced heavily by GMs, AGMs, ACs and analytics groups, support staff....... as it should be. Again JMO.

I'm not saying that attention to details between games isn't crucial to a player's development -- I'm just saying that ion the head coach (however the philosophy is formed) doesn't let you express yourself on the ice, it will backfire when it comes to tour development.

We went from being in the finals to finishing last

"The only way Florida misses the playoffs is if they have multiple major injuries to their good players".

That's exactly how that would happen, like it did for Montreal. People overlook the record for man games lost to injury, including to their #1G and their #1D and the one D, in Edmundson, that was able to salvage Petry's game in Montreal.

Those three players were basically gone all year.