HF Habs: Trade Proposal Thread #80

[Runner77]

Bergy left us with a lot of picks and decent prospect depth but an absolute disaster with cap.

The fact that Hughes offloaded Weber is still stunning to me. He still has so much work to do also.

It’s the lethal combo of significant cap allocated to undesirable assets — which, if they had to be moved quickly, would have us dip into those pick reserves. Luckily, Hughes is in no hurry.

 

[BLONG7]

Bozovins gifts just keep on giving don’t they.

And to think, when I complained for the past five years about all the shit contracts he was handing out like candy and how it would handcuff in the future, there were always his defenders telling me not to worry...that they were easily moveable contracts

I wonder where those cheerleaders are now?

The cheerleaders!! lol
Pretty much gone now..................although every now and then they reappear, citing Suzuki and Caufield as being his finer moments, which would kinda be true, kinda.
He wanted Glass, and CC fell in our lap because 14 other teams were scared of his size, but anyhow.....

The heavy lifting on the cap is a serious work in progress...............there will be at least one more move, and I think it will be Off-man..............at least I hope who goes...maybe Armia.
Drouin, would be a dream dream scenario....

 

[BaseballCoach]

Before even dreaming of Huberdeau (and PLD) we should really focus on what was plan A of this summer which was making room on our salary cap.

That part of the summer so far was a failure and it's preventing many things to happen....we can't even sign Dach. I'm not blaming Hughes, it's seems impossible to trade away contracts this summer without making a bad asset management move and look silly.

The Toffoli trade was a great trade considering how hard it is right now.

But we still need to find a way.....
Sure some ends at the end of this years, but we need a lot more than that.

Actually we can sign Dach to a small bridge by either:
a. waiving then burying two vets and playing with a 20 man active roster; OR
b. putting Byron on LTIR and keeping him out until we have room

Re the bloated contracts, you were generally right.

Weber was an exception because the Subban contract was even MORE bloated. I mean Nashville traded him for negative value after 3 years and NJD could not even get a 7th round pick for him at 50% retained last TDL.

Meanwhile, I predicted that Weber's front loaded contract was tradeable, and it WAS traded for someone who probably will get a pick for us at the TDL.

But by and large yes you and many others among us were right about all the deals currently hampering us. See how Hughes handled Pitlick versus how MB handled Byron.

 

[Habs Icing]

Dach played wing because he sucked in the dot. Why should he never play wing?


Were you? And able to remember those years?

I was there for the 70s and some of the 60s. As for the remembering well I can remember most if not all.

 

[Sorinth]

Before even dreaming of Huberdeau (and PLD) we should really focus on what was plan A of this summer which was making room on our salary cap.

That part of the summer so far was a failure and it's preventing many things to happen....we can't even sign Dach. I'm not blaming Hughes, it's seems impossible to trade away contracts this summer without making a bad asset management move and look silly.

The Toffoli trade was a great trade considering how hard it is right now.

But we still need to find a way.....
Sure some ends at the end of this years, but we need a lot more than that.

We have almost 17m in pending UFAs, we will have clarity on Price which quite likely frees up another 10m giving us 27m in cap space heading into the summer of '23 and something like 32m if we buy out Gallagher that summer.

You are overstating the cap situation, it's in no way "some but we need a lot more".

 

[Habs Icing]

Ok smart mouth…it’s called a figure of speech. Lol if that’s your point then it’s cause you know I’m right about PLD

Now I’m getting the responses of “oh well it’ll happen between now and the next year or 2”

Lol ok…that’s not what was being said 2 weeks ago.

It's just a guess on my part but it looks like you take posting on this forum really seriously. And to be honest I really don't know your take on PLD. Should I be worried?

 

[Kent Nilsson]

Oh man signing Huberdeau would be glorious.

For the first 3-4 years he’s worth his contract he helps maintain us in mediocrity while our prospects aren’t ready. Then by the time Price and Gallagher expire he can replace them as albatross.

That would be so typically us. Good thing he prob doesnt five a f*** about Montreal.

 

[SOLR]

Dach played wing because he sucked in the dot. Why should he never play wing?


Were you? And able to remember those years?

Pierre Turgeon playing wing? Dach is as much a winger as a piano player can play the cello.

 

[DAChampion]

Why it is assumed that 31 year old Huberdeau will necessarily get a 7 year, 10+ million/year contract?

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

Why it is assumed that 31 year old Huberdeau will necessarily get a 7 year, 10+ million/year contract?

If he becomes a UFA he will be offered that much. Hopefully Montreal isn't the team doing the offering. I would hope he would have to take less if he wants to be a Canadien.

 

[calder candidate]

It's literally EXACTLY what Toronto did. They tried to get Stamkos right after drafting Matthews and got Marleau and Tavares th next two offseasons. And the near universal view in Toronto was that that was way too aggressive.

Marleau not only caused them cap issue but it cost them a 1st round pick #13 which the gave to Carolina and the took Seth Jarvis,
Toronto did get a other pick #15 Amirov but have they had both their pick the might have had a shoot a Gulhe, Schneider or Barron…

 

[Sorinth]

Actually we can sign Dach to a small bridge by wither:
a. waiving then burying two vets and playing with a 20 man active roster; OR
b. putting Byron on LTIR and keeping him out until we have room

I'm pretty sure the holdup on the Dach contract is about trying to see if there's a reasonable mid-term deal to be had. Dach hasn't really earned anything yet, but with his injury history he might be willing to forgo maximizing future money in order to get security of a longer term deal so it's worth exploring.

And yeah there are options capwise so it's not as dire as just looking at the remaining capspace on capfriendly. All signs point to Byron not being there to start the season, and a month into the season we likely have a lot more clarity on Price and so won't need to run 3 goalies, there will be injuries coming out of camp, etc...

 

[Milhouse40]

I mean slaf in the A short term will help with that

But I don’t agree with you on the salary side of things, this was always a year and change to lose the majority of the contracts. We literally will lose drouin 5.5, dadanov 5.5/ Byron 3.4 and Allen 3 by next summer that gives us 16M to improve the roster

We have almost 17m in pending UFAs, we will have clarity on Price which quite likely frees up another 10m giving us 27m in cap space heading into the summer of '23 and something like 32m if we buy out Gallagher that summer.

You are overstating the cap situation, it's in no way "some but we need a lot more".

Yep, now take out Dach's contract which I suspect will be around 3 millions and also Caufield's extension next summer that will be needed, which if things goes well should be in the 6 millions.

So that 16-17 millions next year will actually be more like 7 to 8 millions with those two and there will be around 4 to 5 players left to sign to complete the line-up.

As I stated, unless we are going to be a cup contender, it's not enough.

Actually we can sign Dach to a small bridge by wither:
a. waiving then burying two vets and playing with a 20 man active roster; OR
b. putting Byron on LTIR and keeping him out until we have room

Re the bloated contracts, you were generally right.

Weber was an exception because the Subban contract was even MORE bloated. I mean Nsashville traded him for negative value after 3 years and NJD could not even get a 7th round pick for him at 50% retained last TDL.

Meanwhile, I predicted that Weber's front loaded contract was tradeable, and it WAS traded for someone who probably will get a pick for us at the TDL.

But by and large yes you and many others among us were right about all the deals currently hampering us. See how Hughes handled Pitlick versus how MB handled Byron.

Since we finished deadlast last season,.....we shouldn't be in a position to bury old vets contracts in order to sign a contract to a guy like Dach.

 

[Sorinth]

Yep, now take out Dach's contract which I suspect will be around 3 millions and also Caufield's extension next summer that will be needed, which if things goes well should be in the 6 millions.

So that 16-17 millions next year will actually be more like 7 to 8 millions with those two and there will be around 4 to 5 players left to sign to complete the line-up.

As I stated, unless we are going to be a cup contender, it's not enough.

Why would Dach get 3m? He's likely to be closer to 1m then 3 unless it's a 3+ year deal.

Also if we only have the 16-17m that means Price is healthy and playing and Gallagher has rebounded somewhat right? Because if that doesn't happen rather then 7-8m we are just as likely to have over 20m in capspace. There simply is no reason for us to priorize clearing cap space, we don't need it right now because we aren't contending, and the longer we wait the easier it is to deal with.

 

[Adam Michaels]

Before even dreaming of Huberdeau (and PLD) we should really focus on what was plan A of this summer which was making room on our salary cap.

That part of the summer so far was a failure and it's preventing many things to happen....we can't even sign Dach. I'm not blaming Hughes, it's seems impossible to trade away contracts this summer without making a bad asset management move and look silly.

The Toffoli trade was a great trade considering how hard it is right now.

But we still need to find a way.....
Sure some ends at the end of this years, but we need a lot more than that.

It's not a failure when the GM accomplished the 2 things he said he will while creating cap space in both cases.

Hughes wanted to move out Weber's 4 remaining years of a dead contract and got a player with 1 year remaining.

Then he set out to trade Petry and got a younger player back while creating more cap space.

In terms of creating cap space, Habs aren't necessarily playing the short game. Next off-season, about $17M are set to come off the books.

 

[Milhouse40]

Why would Dach get 3m? He's likely to be closer to 1m then 3 unless it's a 3+ year deal.

Also if we only have the 16-17m that means Price is healthy and playing and Gallagher has rebounded somewhat right? Because if that doesn't happen rather then 7-8m we are just as likely to have over 20m in capspace. There simply is no reason for us to priorize clearing cap space, we don't need it right now because we aren't contending, and the longer we wait the easier it is to deal with.

Cause Dach will get around the same as LEhkonen was having, that's the price fro a players like that, was playing 18:00 minutres a game last year,....2.8M for 2-3 years.

As for cap space.....well, that's what Hughes said like 1000 times since he's here, he's the ones prioritizing it and you don't clear it when you need it, you clear it as soon as you have the chance cause that's not just money, that's also players taking away a spot for a younger players that needs to develop also.

 

[JianYang]

Bipolar? why Bipolar? When the official Habs Twitter account tweets something it means that some real shyte going on, it's not Eklund stuff.

You can't blame supporters for being excited as hell after that first Tweet.

I don't think I'm bipolar and I was quite disappointed at the end of the day.


Fail for sure....

Just take a look at the range of tweets from the habs account. Sure, if all it did was break trades or signings, then there would be the expectation that something like that had happened.

But that's never been the case. Most of the content on that account is fluff.

First thing that came to my mind when seeing that was that the twitter people spotted some current player in the city unexpectedly.

 

[BaseballCoach]

It's not a failure when the GM accomplished the 2 things he said he will while creating cap space in both cases.

Hughes wanted to move out Weber's 4 remaining years of a dead contract and got a player with 1 year remaining.

Then he set out to trade Petry and got a younger player back while creating more cap space.

In terms of creating cap space, Habs aren't necessarily playing the short game. Next off-season, about $17M are set to come off the books.

Barring a blockbuster that fortuitously opens up (Dubois, Dobson, Provorov, or other RFA), I expect Hughes to trade a forward for a defenceman between now and the end of training camp.

 

[Milhouse40]

It's not a failure when the GM accomplished the 2 things he said he will while creating cap space in both cases.

Hughes wanted to move out Weber's 4 remaining years of a dead contract and got a player with 1 year remaining.

Then he set out to trade Petry and got a younger player back while creating more cap space.

In terms of creating cap space, Habs aren't necessarily playing the short game. Next off-season, about $17M are set to come off the books.

As mentioned, you need to sign Dach and Caufield plus 4-5 other players with 17M$......there's actually a lot less being available. And I don't blame HuGo either, it's the way things are.

We've seen Pacioretty, Burns, Bjorsktrand being given away for free because of the market. There's still tons of UFA because no one has cap space.

But they wanted cap flexibility, that they mentioned and that we don't have. We still need to find a way to get some.

 

[pylero]

Why it is assumed that 31 year old Huberdeau will necessarily get a 7 year, 10+ million/year contract?

For what it's worth, Huberdeau might not sign for that long nor that much.

 

[BaseballCoach]

I think the Hoffman signing was by far the worst, completely useless and for a player who was 100% not going to fit in "the system" I mean they booted Tatar who was 20 times more implicated all around the ice because he did not fit the system anymore.

Seeing as neither Tatar nor Gallagher did much in the Cup run, both could have been traded for assets (probably a first and a second) instead of letting one go for nothing and re-signing the other to a heavy anchor contract.

Then signing Hoffman to replace Tatar (downgrade) and far worse, letting Danault walk because we bet on Gallagher instead, THEN trading a 1st and 2nd to get Dvorak to replace Danault.

Instead of having 4 first round picks rather easily, we had two and two fewer seconds over two-three years.

Terrible, awful, disastrous player evaluation. Two bad moves leading to two worse ones and a futures-shorting move made purely out of necessity.

 

[JianYang]

Let's not forget about the defense during this whole Dubois and huberdeau talk.

For all the promise on defense with prospects, there is still no true blue number one dman in the system, so you'll probably have to buy one externally through trade or otherwise at some point. Let's not blow the entire load on forwards.

The leafs are still trying to finesse that issue after disporptionately blowing their load on forwards.

 

[BaseballCoach]

Let's not forget about the defense during this whole Dubois and huberdeau talk.

For all the promise on defense with prospects, there is still no true blue number one dman in the system, so you'll probably have to buy one externally through trade or otherwise at some point. Let's not blow the entire load on forwards.

The leafs are still trying to finesse that issue after disporptionately blowing their load on forwards.

I'd offer a nice haul for Dobson including a first (lottery protected). That's maximizing impact.

 

[Adam Michaels]

As mentioned, you need to sign Dach and Caufield plus 4-5 other players with 17M$......there's actually a lot less being available. And I don't blame HuGo either, it's the way things are.

We've seen Pacioretty, Burns, Bjorsktrand being given away for free because of the market. There's still tons of UFA because no one has cap space.

But they wanted cap flexibility, that they mentioned and that we don't have. We still need to find a way to get some.

Unfortunately, HuGo have to clean MB's mess first.

And of course, it's not simply $17M coming off the books and not being used. A portion of it will be used in the proper places.

 

[Sorinth]

Cause Dach will get around the same as LEhkonen was having, that's the price fro a players like that, was playing 18:00 minutres a game last year,....2.8M for 2-3 years.

As for cap space.....well, that's what Hughes said like 1000 times since he's here, he's the ones prioritizing it and you don't clear it when you need it, you clear it as soon as you have the chance cause that's not just money, that's also players taking away a spot for a younger players that needs to develop also.

Lehkonen had proven himself a lot more then Dach has done so far. All Dach has going for him negotiation wise is his potential from what he did in the WHL because being outplayed for 18min on a bad team isn't impressive.

As for cap space, Hughes has not actually prioritized it. If cap space was a priority we would have done a McDonagh like trade with Petry instead of acquiring a replacement that's almost as expensive. Same with Weber, we didn't prioritize cap space in that deal which is why instead of clearing a lot of space we only saved a few million.

Yes if you have the opportunity to get rid of bad cap at little/no cost you do it, but if clearing cap as you want was a priority we would be willing to pay for that and Hughes' actions so far have made it clear we aren't willing to do that. Instead the focus is on building where contrary to your "take a spot from a young player" narrative actually requires veterans to insulate the young guys, which is what Hughes said many times when talking about trading Petry. He always said he wanted a replacement veteran D, either as part of the trade or being acquired some other way to insulate the young D and if he couldn't get that replacement he would keep Petry. That clearly shows clearly his priority was about clearing cap space.

Bergevin left us in a crappy position cap wise, but when you aren't competing it doesn't really matter because with patience it fixes itself. 17m next summer, another 7m in '24 and '25. And likely another 10m from Price. Cap space simply isn't the priority, it's a nice to have.