HF Habs: Trade Proposal Thread #79

[RationalExpectations]

so from Waite, the murmurs are tha Carey is ready and he wants to win. So, if he doesn't go to LTIR, maybe he plays well and we can actually facilitate a trade and eat some of that salary - especially if knee holds up

No GM will be stupid enough and have the cap space to take Price's contract. Let's stop dreaming.

 

[1909]

Apparently ST LOUIS offered Kyrou, Krug and a 1st for Thakchuk. Thats a solid return

Kyrou is the only interesting piece. Krug us getting old.

 

[BLONG7]

Apparently ST LOUIS offered Kyrou, Krug and a 1st for Thakchuk. Thats a solid return

Interesting...............thinking the flames will act quickly here....

 

[Richiebottles]

I hope it’s Vegas. I want them to dismantle their team even more and be completely top heavy so I can continue laughing when they keep failing.

Vegas EVERY time a big time name hits the market.

 

[Belial]

Kyrou is the only interesting piece. Krug us getting old.

I doubt Calgary is going to tear down the whole team and start from scratch, they'll probably try and stay competitive even without Tkachuk and Gaudreau.

 

[Nico Cauzuki]

so from Waite, the murmurs are tha Carey is ready and he wants to win. So, if he doesn't go to LTIR, maybe he plays well and we can actually facilitate a trade and eat some of that salary - especially if knee holds up

He better stay at home this year then

 

[BaseballCoach]

I personally don't even think giving up Dach is worth it right now. I wanna see what MSL can do with him. Like I said, trading for him THIS year makes absolutely no sense as Hughes stated Habs won't be competitive so he obviously wants to gracefully tank. So in a year, with only 1 year left before he heads to FA, why give up tons of assets when you're pretty much guaranteed to get him in a year for free. I don't see Habs in 2023-24 being competitive enough to add that final piece in the top 6 to push them over the edge. I see 2024-25 as the year they start doing damage. So like I said, unless it's veteran contracts (still in their prime of course), I'm not willing to give up young key pieces to get something early that will eventually come to be

LOL, just LOL. That is dreaming. "Pretty much guaranteed" would mean, what, 85-90% chance? Life doesn't work that way. I think it is more like 5%.

Dubois is a nice piece to have, not a messiah. But if we want the nice piece, we make an affordable offer now. Simple as that.

Dach as centerpiece is affordable, if there is no top-2 round pick attached. Dach on top of 1st rounder plus X? I pass.

 

[BaseballCoach]

Hoffman, Drouin, Byron. So much deadwood on this team.

Focus on Hoffman, Armia, Savard. Gallagher would be a Hail Mary. Drouin and Byron aren't long for this team anyway, and Dadonov could fetch a lot but he has to play and score first. If there is a good return availabile for Allen at some point this year, take it and muddle through until we find the right netminder to replace Price.

Anderson, Dvorak, Matheson and Edmundson are not a priority to move.

 

[Sterling Archer]

Focus on Hoffman, Armia, Savard. Gallagher would be a Hail Mary. Drouin and Byron aren't long for this team anyway, and Dadonov could fetch a lot but he has to play and score first. If there is a good return availabile for Allen at some point this year, take it and muddle through until we find the right netminder to replace Price.

Anderson, Dvorak, Matheson and Edmundson are not a priority to move.

Truth is, there’s no shortage of players we need to move. Hoffman and Drouin are too on that list as we have too many wingers and need to shed salary. After that, I expect a bunch more to be gone before the start of the next season.

 

[Saundies]

LOL, just LOL. That is dreaming. "Pretty much guaranteed" would mean, what, 85-90% chance? Life doesn't work that way. I think it is more like 5%.

Dubois is a nice piece to have, not a messiah. But if we want the nice piece, we make an affordable offer now. Simple as that.

Dach as centerpiece is affordable, if there is no top-2 round pick attached. Dach on top of 1st rounder plus X? I pass.

You literally said this back in this thread as well, and when I challenged you on it, you didn't reply at all. What makes you think the chances of this are so low when literally EVERYTHING points in the opposite direction? Look at this quote below from the Jets reporting who's been covering this story since it's been happening:

<Translation>

During the trade with Patrik Laine, the Jets probably knew that Pierre-Luc Dubois was not too happy in Columbus and they were probably already aware that his long-term dream was to play for the Montreal Canadiens. At that moment, two years ago, maybe they thought they could win with him and (Mark) Scheifele. That he would love the city, his family here (his dad works with the Moose) and that sort of thing. I guess they thought they wouldn't have to deal with that scenario this summer, that everything would be so good with his 60-point season and he figured that was the place for him long term.

They took a chance on PLD KNOWING HE WANTS TO PLAY FOR THE HABS. They knew this when they traded for him thought they could change his mind. They didn't. What makes you think the chances of him coming in UFA are so low when it's being said by everyone covering this story that the opposite is the case?

 

[ReHabs]

I am very interested in how Dach is going to do in Montreal. I do think he is still a high quality asset. His first year showed a lot of promise. He has all the physical tools to make it in the NHL, and still has skill as a big man. His situation in Chicago was not a good one. With the help of MSL and the right support in terms of line mates, he could have a breakout season. That's is what I am willing to gamble on. I respect that you don't feel that way, but we will have to agree to disagree.

What is the top-end of what Dach can do? 60 points? Do you expect 70 points from him? We've had one player hit 70 points in the last 10+ years -- Max Domi, that one time.

Tkachuk hit 100 points this past season. Over 3x Dach's career high.

I'm intrigued by Dach as well and can agree to disagree but I feel like I'm going crazy when I see people turn their nose up at a 24 year old, physical 100 point player.

The value is obviously there but I wouldn’t do it. We are up against the cap, we’d have to shed $9 million more in contracts which would take even more assets. Not the right move to make.

It's not impossible to lose cap. You're right we would have to pay but dumping Drouin+Byron opens up the cap space necessary... keep in mind that we're talking about acquiring a 100 point powerforward.

That's very risky! You probably think Slaf and Dach won't turn into legit top 6 assets which is why you think the way you do.

Contenders who have cap space might consider this, not the Habs. M Tkachuk is the same age as Dubois but the cost to acquire is way more. This is about cost to inquire and something we can afford to pay to get a guy 1 year older than Suzuki while we rebuild.

Top6 assets are what, 40-50 point players? 60 points? Tkachuk is a 100 point player. Dach has never passed 30 points, even with a 100% improvement, that's 60 points.

Slafkovsky was considered a lesser 1OA compared to other top picks of other drafts. Before the draft and subsequent Habs optimism + hype, scouts thought that he had good 2nd line upside (if he ever makes it) That's what, a 60 point player, tops?

Rebuilding is building. If we stick with Suzuki (which we obviously should!!) there is nothing wrong with adding players that match his age.

Tkachuk is a 100 point player, let's say he got lucky... at worst he is a 80 point player. That's quite special, he'd be the best forward we'd have since Damphousse.. ?

Exactly.It's fun to throw out trade ideas but where are we getting $10 mil in cap space?Also why in the world would we trade for Tkachuk ?After just starting a proper rebuild why would we trade half of our best young assets for him? He alone is not going to make zero difference .We have to somehow shed the awful contracts we have before we can do anything and thats not going to happen anytime soon.

Is a 24 year old too old to build with? Should we trade Suzuki next year?

 

[Runner77]

If you were Hughes, which contract would you move out next?

I’d start with players most likely to find takers right away and who are most likely to generate cap room. You want to move with those types of players before teams find a solution elsewhere or via whatever is left on the UFA market.

Dvo presents a great opportunity given his premium position and affordable cap hit.

 

[Runner77]

I agree. Thankfully I'll be happy whatever they get for Drouin...

Sign me up for future considerations. Time to see an end to a very frustrating journey.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Top6 assets are what, 40-50 point players? 60 points? Tkachuk is a 100 point player. Dach has never passed 30 points, even with a 100% improvement, that's 60 points.

Slafkovsky was considered a lesser 1OA compared to other top picks of other drafts. Before the draft and subsequent Habs optimism + hype, scouts thought that he had good 2nd line upside (if he ever makes it) That's what, a 60 point player, tops?

Rebuilding is building. If we stick with Suzuki (which we obviously should!!) there is nothing wrong with adding players that match his age.

Tkachuk is a 100 point player, let's say he got lucky... at worst he is a 80 point player. That's quite special, he'd be the best forward we'd have since Damphousse.. ?

Top 6 includes top line forwards as well. I value both adding Dubois and Tkachuk but it's a measure of us rebuilding and one costing way more than the other in bringing in the guy that is 1 year older than Suzuki.

I'm willing to take my chances on Dach and Slaf and I prefer to add Dubois who you can get for a possible value contract and pay less than what it takes to get Tkachuk and then what he's going to ask for on a contract. Plus, I don't think Tkachuk plays nice and prefers to be in the US.

If we were closer to being a contender, I'd consider Tkachuk yes. Trading valuable futures is always risky but when you are close to a cup, it's something you consider. Valuable futures for Tkachuk is not close to the futures is possibly takes to get Dubois due to the circumstances and leverage we appear to have.

Prior to this year, Tkachuk was a .80 pts/game player. That's 65 pts. You calling him a 100 pts player but you won't get that year after year. Even if you factor in his last season and subtract his 1st two seasons, it's pt/game player and that's 82 pts. Still lots of value but that context needs to be stated. He's not a sure shot 100 pts player.

Habs need to add centers with Suzuki. Going after the winger first in a trade is not a move I would make.

 

[waitin425]

What is the top-end of what Dach can do? 60 points? Do you expect 70 points from him? We've had one player hit 70 points in the last 10+ years -- Max Domi, that one time.

Tkachuk hit 100 points this past season. Over 3x Dach's career high.

I'm intrigued by Dach as well and can agree to disagree but I feel like I'm going crazy when I see people turn their nose up at a 24 year old, physical 100 point player.

It's not impossible to lose cap. You're right we would have to pay but dumping Drouin+Byron opens up the cap space necessary... keep in mind that we're talking about acquiring a 100 point powerforward.


Top6 assets are what, 40-50 point players? 60 points? Tkachuk is a 100 point player. Dach has never passed 30 points, even with a 100% improvement, that's 60 points.

Slafkovsky was considered a lesser 1OA compared to other top picks of other drafts. Before the draft and subsequent Habs optimism + hype, scouts thought that he had good 2nd line upside (if he ever makes it) That's what, a 60 point player, tops?

Rebuilding is building. If we stick with Suzuki (which we obviously should!!) there is nothing wrong with adding players that match his age.

Tkachuk is a 100 point player, let's say he got lucky... at worst he is a 80 point player. That's quite special, he'd be the best forward we'd have since Damphousse.. ?


Is a 24 year old too old to build with? Should we trade Suzuki next year?

No turning my nose at Tkachuk...but we have salary problems. Our former GM has created a situation where it is very tricky and difficult to get rid of some of the dead weight. He invested in Dvorak, Gally, Hoffman and Drouin, the same way we would want to invest in Tkachuk. Slaf + Dach + Florida 1st is too much in future capital and more importantly cost controlled assets. This is especially true with the above stated dead weight.

A trade for any player at this point, simply can't be high end futures. It has to be for some salary going back.

Assuming Calgary would want futures, I would do it at the expense of a combination of salary and futures.

Dvorak + Hoffman + Farrell + unprotected 2024 1st.

Dvorak and Hoffman are serviceable 2nd/3rd line players. Farrell has to be considered a blue chipper at this point. He has looked dynamite. The 2024 1st is a gamble for us....but in line with when I hope we are shooting for some decent results.

Tkachuk - Suzuki - Caufield
Slaf - Dach - Anderson
Drouin - Evans - Gally
Dad - Whoever- Armia

 

[BaseballCoach]

You literally said this back in this thread as well, and when I challenged you on it, you didn't reply at all. What makes you think the chances of this are so low when literally EVERYTHING points in the opposite direction? Look at this quote below from the Jets reporting who's been covering this story since it's been happening:


They took a chance on PLD KNOWING HE WANTS TO PLAY FOR THE HABS. They knew this when they traded for him thought they could change his mind. They didn't. What makes you think the chances of him coming in UFA are so low when it's being said by everyone covering this story that the opposite is the case?

Two reasons, at least.

One, Winnipeg will trade him sooner or later, and the team he goes to may not convince him right away to sign long-term, but players often do if they like the place and have success. I have no reason to believe this fairy tale that for the first time in league history, a 24 year old player with the world in front of him will spurn all suitors and try to sign in only one place, which means taking less money guaranteed.

Second, I don't expect Kent Hughes to manage his team in such a way that he counts on Dubois being a guaranteed acquisition in two years. By the summer of 2024 he may have found another first or second line center and be full on LW, or he may need a 1D much more and that would take all avaiilable cash, or Dubois has an 85 point season and now wants $11M for 7 years.

Teams posture, agents posture, players posture. Writers speculate. This highly unbelievable story is being pushed for some reason(s), but I am not going to guess what they are. I will never say 'never'. Even though such a thing has never happened, I'll give it a 5% chance.

 

[Sorinth]

A team isn't going to give as much for PLD if they know they won't sign him. Look at Vanek. Everyone knew he was going to Minny and all he got was two 2nds.

Best value they'll get is now as Habs can offer PLD a longer, cheaper contract. The longer Jets wait, the less value he'll have.

He only got two 2nds because the Islanders screwed up the deadline. They had refused better offers earlier in the day only to have those teams move on and so they almost couldn't find a trade and so were desperate.

It's also worth mentioning when Buffalo traded him first even though everyone knew he was going to Minny they got Moulson, 1st, 2nd.

 

[Habs Halifax]

No turning my nose at Tkachuk...but we have salary problems. Our former GM has created a situation where it is very tricky and difficult to get rid of some of the dead weight. He invested in Dvorak, Gally, Hoffman and Drouin, the same way we would want to invest in Tkachuk. Slaf + Dach + Florida 1st is too much in future capital and more importantly cost controlled assets. This is especially true with the above stated dead weight.

A trade for any player at this point, simply can't be high end futures. It has to be for some salary going back.

Assuming Calgary would want futures, I would do it at the expense of a combination of salary and futures.

Dvorak + Hoffman + Farrell + unprotected 2024 1st.

Dvorak and Hoffman are serviceable 2nd/3rd line players. Farrell has to be considered a blue chipper at this point. He has looked dynamite. The 2024 1st is a gamble for us....but in line with when I hope we are shooting for some decent results.

Tkachuk - Suzuki - Caufield
Slaf - Dach - Anderson
Drouin - Evans - Gally
Dad - Whoever- Armia

Dvorak + Hoffman + Farrell + unprotected 2024 1st will get you Dubois but it will not get you Tkachuk. Someone will outbid that.

What makes us think Tkachuk will sign long term with us?

 

[BLONG7]

Has there been chatter between Montreal and the flames? You guys are putting Matthew Tkachuk in lineup proposals?
I would think there is zero chance he would be coming to Montreal...................Dubois obviously a little different.

 

[Sterling Archer]

He only got two 2nds because the Islanders screwed up the deadline. They had refused better offers earlier in the day only to have those teams move on and so they almost couldn't find a trade and so were desperate.

It's also worth mentioning when Buffalo traded him first even though everyone knew he was going to Minny they got Moulson, 1st, 2nd.

That highlights my point. He had more value when he was traded earlier. Isles got more games out of him and could flip him again.

If PLD isn’t traded until next seasons TDL, team will have limited number of games with him and won’t be able to flip him if need be. Hence lower value.

 

[waitin425]

Dvorak + Hoffman + Farrell + unprotected 2024 1st will get you Dubois but it will not get you Tkachuk. Someone will outbid that.

What makes us think Tkachuk will sign long term with us?

He won't. Which is why I wouldn't offer anymore than above

 

[Runner77]

That highlights my point. He had more value when he was traded earlier. Isles got more games out of him and could flip him again.

If PLD isn’t traded until next seasons TDL, team will have limited number of games with him and won’t be able to flip him.

I wonder what happens if Chevaldayoff refuses to trade Dubois cause there is no offer he likes. Does Dubois return to that dressing room after all the drama he’s made himself a part of?

Or maybe, Dubois will fit right into the dysfunction that is the Jets dressing room.

 

[Harry Kakalovich]

Sign me up for future considerations. Time to see an end to a very frustrating journey.

Well, hopefully they trade Anderson for a bundle so they can play Drouin and trade him at the deadline for whatever. But yeah, who knows what's happening with Drouin.

 

[Sterling Archer]

I wonder what happens if Chevaldayoff refuses to trade Dubois cause there is no offer he likes. Does Dubois return to that dressing room after all the drama he’s made himself a part of?

Or maybe, Dubois will fit right into the dysfunction that is the Jets dressing room.

He’s in a pickle. He won’t rush a trade until he gets something decent in return. It may not be this season and I’d expect PLD to play knowing it’d a matter of time. But he has to trade him before his contract is up or lose him for nothing needlessly.

 

[CaptainKirk]

I wonder what happens if Chevaldayoff refuses to trade Dubois cause there is no offer he likes. Does Dubois return to that dressing room after all the drama he’s made himself a part of?

Or maybe, Dubois will fit right into the dysfunction that is the Jets dressing room.

Scheifele might get jealous that he's not the one in the headlines, so maybe he'll run over his personal chef to get the spotlight back. By then people will say "PLD tried to screw us, but at least he didn't run over anyone" and all will be normal again.