HF Habs: Trade Proposal Thread #79

[le_sean]

Probably an uneducated question but why is everyone considering Pat Brisson saying that PLD wants to be traded to only Mtl?

By what I remember, his agent said:
"Montreal is a city he would probably … I can talk about it because he doesn't have a contract at the moment - he's a restricted free agent. Montreal is a place, a city he'd like to play in. That's all I can say about that."

That only says he has interested in playing with MTL but not that he will not consider other opportunities?

Jets beat writer says he’s been talking about wanting to go to Montreal for a while now. The last sentence by Brisson is quite telling. It’s like he’s stopping himself from saying “it’s the only city he wants to play in”. Otherwise he’d add that his client is open to other opportunities, or wants to play for a contender, blah blah. This doesn’t seem to be typical agent speech.

 

[Harry Kakalovich]

No one is building around him. He’s likely the 2nd line center behind Suzuki. He’s a fantastic young piece you can add to your core and grow with the team for years to come. It’s the over expectation of him that leads to the value trap. He’s not worth the top tier price because he sucks. That’s not what’s happening at all. He’s a good piece but no one is selling the farm to get him. In fact he’ll likely fetch less than what he should on the open market.

I would argue he's the type of piece to add to an already established team pushing to win the Cup. He should go play with a team competing for the cup for 2 years.

 

[luthar]

“Multiple sources confirmed to The Athletic that wearing the Canadiens’ bleu, blanc et rouge is a dream that Dubois is not shy to talk about in private company.”

Well, PLD has a childhood dream to play for the CH. That just says he is showing a lot of interest in playing for Mtl some day. It doesn't mean it is given, once he is UFA that he will come if he has competitive offers.

 

[Harry Kakalovich]

Probably an uneducated question but why is everyone considering Pat Brisson saying that PLD wants to be traded to only Mtl?

By what I remember, his agent said:
"Montreal is a city he would probably … I can talk about it because he doesn't have a contract at the moment - he's a restricted free agent. Montreal is a place, a city he'd like to play in. That's all I can say about that."

That only says he has interested in playing with MTL but not that he will not consider other opportunities?

There is a media element to it all...

 

[luthar]

Jets beat writer says he’s been talking about wanting to go to Montreal for a while now. The last sentence by Brisson is quite telling. It’s like he’s stopping himself from saying “it’s the only city he wants to play in”. Otherwise he’d add that his client is open to other opportunities, or wants to play for a contender, blah blah. This doesn’t seem to be typical agent speech.

Ahhh... ty!

 

[DAChampion]

Sometimes I wonder how many of you have any life experience whatsoever beyond turning your computer on and off.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with a man in his 20s or 30s having a preference of where he'd like to live, or alternatively wanting to give his wife a say.

 

[donghabs98]

The absolute second they go public, with a trade demand, they have diminished themselves as an asset.........you as a GM can say it all day, like Hughes did, oh we only will make the right deal that makes sense for us, but you will never get the right deal or value...........you just can't.

As for the Petry deal he did ok all things considered.....

Chevy is now on the clock.............Chevy could explore other avenues, but those GM;s are highly unlike to bother, because PLD has told the world, he is going to Montreal in two years.

It really makes the Suzuki deal even more impressive. I can't believe Bergevin got so much value out of a player who everyone knew wanted out and was a pending UFA.

 

[Bell Centre Hotdog]

I see a few posts on the last few pages about being ok sending Florida's 1st for Dubois. I honestly think they should be holding on to that pick.

Tampa / Toronto / Boston should compete for top 3. Ottawa and Detroit have gotten better.

Team has signed the Staal brothers / cousins / del zotto.

Duclair is out for the foreseeable future after surgery.

Barkov even though a star hasn't played a full season in a couple of years.

They just switched out their head coach for IMO a coach who hasn't done much in the last few years.

A guy who had a good season in Marchment left.

Bobrovsky - management rumored to want to move him. What will his season be like even though the Panthers had a solid year his stats weren't great. Is Knight ready for full-time play as a #1 which Florida wants.

I'm not saying it shambles.

But with everything above that pick could turn out to be a decent pick if things go south and the Atlantic getting stronger.

 

[BergevinBurner]

Sometimes I wonder how many of you have any life experience whatsoever beyond turning your computer on and off.

I keep mine in sleep mode so I don't even have that experience

 

[Sterling Archer]

I would argue he's the type of piece to add to an already established team pushing to win the Cup. He should go play with a team competing for the cup for 2 years.

Or play for a team that's properly rebuilding with a young core to become a team that's competing for a Cup in the next few years. This isn't about what you want him to do, it's about what he wants and what's best for the Habs.

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

Well, PLD has a childhood dream to play for the CH. That just says he is showing a lot of interest in playing for Mtl some day. It doesn't mean it is given, once he is UFA that he will come if he has competitive offers.

I agree.
If let's say he becomes ufa, and the habs offer him a 7 M aav contract, but the rangers offer him a 9 M aav contract, then he's probably signing with the rangers.

 

[Harry Kakalovich]

Or play for a team that's properly rebuilding with a young core to become a team that's competing for a Cup in the next few years. This isn't about what you want him to do, it's about what he wants and what's best for the Habs.

?

I think it's best for the Habs if he goes and plays somewhere else.

I see a few posts on the last few pages about being ok sending Florida's 1st for Dubois. I honestly think they should be holding on to that pick.

Tampa / Toronto / Boston should compete for top 3. Ottawa and Detroit have gotten better.

Team has signed the Staal brothers / cousins / del zotto.

Duclair is out for the foreseeable future after surgery.

Barkov even though a star hasn't played a full season in a couple of years.

They just switched out their head coach for IMO a coach who hasn't done much in the last few years.

A guy who had a good season in Marchment left.

Bobrovsky - management rumored to want to move him. What will his season be like even though the Panthers had a solid year his stats weren't great. Is Knight ready for full-time play as a #1 which Florida wants.

I'm not saying it shambles.

But with everything above that pick could turn out to be a decent pick if things go south and the Atlantic getting stronger.

Totally don't want to move that pick. The Atlantic will be tough next year. Don't sleep on Buffalo - getting Alex Tuch was a great move they are up and coming too. Only one team in that division will be an easy out...

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

Not something that people have pointed out: Trading for Dubois now would allow us to sign him to a better contract.

If we sign him now, it will probably be around 7.5M x 7 years. So he'll be 24 to 30 years old during the length of this contract.
vs
If we sign him in 2 years, he will get more money because the cap will be higher, many teams will offer him rich contracts, and that contract will buy more ufa years. It will probably look like 7 years x 8.5-9 M. He'll be 26 to 32 years old during the length of that contract.

 

[Adam Michaels]

For anyone who would be interested, Basu's and Godin's The Athletic podcast with Winnipeg's Athletic writer Murat Ates will be out later today.

 

[durojean]

Trading Guhle for PLD would be a mistake, IMO. Top pairing defensemen are by far the Habs biggest need, and Guhle is the best current prospect with that potential.

I also feel like that.

But Hugo seems to want quick paced defenceman instead of big stay at home guys a la Weber. Maybe Guhle is simply not the kind of guy Hugo want in their team.

My point is we have to give to get. I we should never a trade that we are comfortable with because it almost always mean the trade is lopsided on our side.

I actually feel like we are a better team with Dvorak and Guhle than we are with Dubois. I however feel like Dubois instead of Dvorak is a big improven for the team right now and for the team's future.

 

[Harry Kakalovich]

Not something that people have pointed out: Trading for Dubois now would allow us to sign him to a better contract.

If we sign him now, it will probably be around 7.5M x 7 years. So he'll be 24 to 30 years old during the length of this contract.
vs
If we sign him in 2 years, he will get more money because the cap will be higher, many teams will offer him rich contracts, and that contract will buy more ufa years. It will probably look like 7 years x 8.5-9 M. He'll be 26 to 32 years old during the length of that contract.

It's been pointed out but maybe several pages ago now.

People not high on PLD see both contracts as too much and don't want to sign him to either. Plus if he has two bad years I suppose he could be worth less?

 

[Habs Halifax]

Because of the cap constraints this season, will that make the TDL more or less active I wonder?

That depends a lot on Price with the Habs. Placing him on LTIR after the season lets us accumulate cap space and we will have room to retain on guys like Dadonov, Drouin, Byron, Allen. Just like it was with Lehkonen and Chiarot last deadline. However, placing Price on LTIR before the season starts will not create accrued cap space. It's one of the negatives of LTIR contracts. A lot depends on when they are placed on LTIR!

The leverage that sellers have usually is ability to retain at the deadline for teams who are contenders and have very little cap space. The deadline will be active and teams that have both players to sell and cap space to retain will be targets.

If I was the Rangers I would pitch hard for PLD. Trade him for Kakko + a cap dump of some sort and try that out.

They didn't have the cap space for Dubois before they signed Trocheck and they certainly don't have it now. Other than Kakko, who do they send the other way to be cap compliant? And what happens next year when Miller, Chytil, Lafreniere are RFA's that need raises? Does Dubois do to them like he did to the Blue Jackets and Jets? People think everyone says yes to the Rangers

 

[durojean]

We just traded a young NHL dman. Guhle is not going anywhere. I'm pretty sure Hughes offer is something like Dvorak + Hoffman+1st Calgary 2023, maybe B lvl prospect. If he was offering Guhle++, Dubois would already be a Habs. He's trying to low ball Chevy.

I'm not saying he will do it. I feel like we should brace for the worst. It probably is the asking price from Winnipeg...

 

[Guy Larose]

I don’t see the “attitude” the same way. He was in a bad situation with Torts and wanted out. He saw that as an opportunity to go to a team he wanted to, just as Tom’s of players do every year. They sent him to Jets after Chevy thought he could convince him to stay. He didn’t. All PLD said was he didn’t want to extend with the Jets. How is that an attitude? He’s being honest and forth right rather than beating around the bush and walking away from the Jets and they get nothing for him. Again, something he has every right in the world to do. He’s under a contract, not indentured servitude. He can chose what he wants when he’s a feee agent and he wants to play for his childhood team. I honestly don’t see anything wrong with that whatsoever and I don’t see it as an “attitude” issue either.

I wrote the same yesterday almost word for word and it's been mentioned in the past. It's crazy that the same people keep coming back to the same narratives on this board. It's like no one reads.

 

[le_sean]

I also feel like that.

But Hugo seems to want quick paced defenceman instead of big stay at home guys a la Weber. Maybe Guhle is simply not the kind of guy Hugo want in their team.

My point is we have to give to get. I we should never a trade that we are comfortable with because it almost always mean the trade is lopsided on our side.

I actually feel like we are a better team with Dvorak and Guhle than we are with Dubois. I however feel like Dubois instead of Dvorak is a big improven for the team right now and for the team's future.

Guhle is the exact type of team they want to build - big AND fast. Guhle is likely the reason why they were so open to trading Romanov. There’s just no way he’s leaving in a trade.

 

[Harry Kakalovich]

That depends a lot on Price with the Habs. Placing him on LTIR after the season lets us accumulate cap space and we will have room to retain on guys like Dadonov, Drouin, Byron, Allen. Just like it was with Lehkonen and Chiarot last deadline. However, placing Price on LTIR before the season starts will not create accrued cap space. It's one of the negatives of LTIR contracts. A lot depends on when they are placed on LTIR!

The leverage that sellers have usually is ability to retain at the deadline for teams who are contenders and have very little cap space. The deadline will be active and teams that have both players to sell and cap space to retain will be targets.



They didn't have the cap space for Dubois before they signed Trocheck and they certainly don't have it now. Other than Kakko, who do they send the other way to be cap compliant? And what happens next year when Miller, Chytil, Lafreniere are RFA's that need raises?

I meant league wide

 

[Guy Larose]

It really makes the Suzuki deal even more impressive. I can't believe Bergevin got so much value out of a player who everyone knew wanted out and was a pending UFA.

I'm pretty sure I read he wanted Glass and they said no and it eventually became Suzuki.

 

[MarioLeMoose]

“Multiple sources confirmed to The Athletic that wearing the Canadiens’ bleu, blanc et rouge is a dream that Dubois is not shy to talk about in private company.”

I wonder what # he will wear with us. I imagine it'll be a pretty popular jersey at the Bell.

 

[le_sean]

I wonder what # he will wear with us. I imagine it'll be a pretty popular jersey at the Bell.

He changed to 80 last year to honour Kivlenieks, but I really don’t like the look of it

 

[MarkyMarkov]

I would be ok with Dubois vs Dvorak + 1st+Kidney. Pretty sure Chevy wants more. But has you said, we have leverage, so lets wait.

The framework for the deal should be Dvorak and Fla 1st. As for the prospect, I would give them two as we have an excess of B/B+ prospects. Get them to choose one from Kidney/Beck/Farrell/Roy/Biondi and one from Norlinder/Struble/Jack-eye/Fairbrother.