Proposal: Trade Juuse Saros

[Roman Yoshi]

I don't think it is a bad deal. I think it is a bad deal for this team. At this particular moment.

 

[schmiedi]

Fair Deal.
Hope Asakrov is not this bad, he showed this playoff and you can get something back for him, nice to see him go away soon.

On the otherhand Saros for 7.5 mio is a steal and still a good Option for other Teams.

 

[Loyal Legion]

Paying a goalie as small in size as Saros until he is 40? Ugh. If there is ANY kind of NMC, we are in long term trouble.

 

[Armourboy]

Yep just what I was afraid of. Oh well guess we will be mediocre for the next decade. So who is the next goalie in line cause I don't see Askarov waiting around for this mess. Hopefully he wasn't stupid and gave him a full NMC that will screw us if an expansion draft hits

 

[LCPreds]

Isn’t this the same guy who basically said being stuck in the mushy middle doesn’t work? I’d really like to understand how he squares this contract with that thinking.

 

[wmupreds]

Isn’t this the same guy who basically said being stuck in the mushy middle doesn’t work? I’d really like to understand how he squares this contract with that thinking.

He also said he didn't want to give out long term deals. Of course, reality hits you fast. Star players don't take short term deals these days.

 

[maplepred]

Brutal. This is brutal. As if we resigned him for 8 years. Brutal brutal brutal.

Can’t wait to see askarov go off and win vezinas with another team.

 

[schmiedi]

Brutal. This is brutal. As if we resigned him for 8 years. Brutal brutal brutal.

Can’t wait to see askarov go off and win vezinas with another team.

Askarov is most overrated. He never performes in key moments till now.

 

[herzausstein]

Contract aav would be pretty fair
Contract length is garbage
Will see about trade clauses but as of now we would still have a year to trade him whereever.

I agree Askarov isnt ready to be the starter but if you give saros that kind of contract then it isnt really going to give him the chance in the future either

 

[triggrman]

Brutal. This is brutal. As if we resigned him for 8 years. Brutal brutal brutal.

Can’t wait to see askarov go off and win vezinas with another team.

Good job.

Brutal. This is brutal. As if we resigned him for 8 years. Brutal brutal brutal.

Can’t wait to see askarov go off and win vezinas with another team.

Good job.

 

[originalpredfan]

If true and if a NMC than Trotz will be able to get in a TV commercial as the worst decision in the history of decisions.

 

[originalpredfan]

I can only hope there is not a NMC and Trotz is doing Saro's a favor by setting him up with a long term deal as a trade sweetener for another team to fulfill. That way he can let Saro's go when Askarov is ready.

 

[maplepred]

Good job.


Good job.

Thank you for input. Great insight.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

Brutal. This is brutal. As if we resigned him for 8 years. Brutal brutal brutal.

Can’t wait to see askarov go off and win vezinas with another team.

It's terrible news to wake up to, that's for sure. It's 2 years too long, and $1M too much on AAV. I would have simply let Saros walk before I'd have offered this deal, and I'm extremely disappointed that Trotz was so weak on this negotiation. And that's even assuming there is no NMC anywhere in the contract. If there is, then Trotz needs to be chained to Suter when he gets launched out of that cannon. It does not bode well at all for the future of the franchise if Trotz is going to fumble the ball on easy plays like this.

Now that said, I wish people would decouple this terrible contract from the Askarov situation. Folks need to give their heads a shake with the Askarov talk... "go off and win Vezinas with another team"?! How's about we just see if he can play in the NHL at all first? Askarov's future is completely wide open at this point. Or maybe Askarov will get an NMC on his next bridge contract, and the Preds will protect him in Expansion, if he is any good by that time, and expose Saros?

The Saros contract is horrific on its own, completely independent of the unknowable Askarov variable.

 

[Predsanddead24]

It's terrible news to wake up to, that's for sure. It's 2 years too long, and $1M too much on AAV. I would have simply let Saros walk before I'd have offered this deal, and I'm extremely disappointed that Trotz was so weak on this negotiation. And that's even assuming there is no NMC anywhere in the contract. If there is, then Trotz needs to be chained to Suter when he gets launched out of that cannon. It does not bode well at all for the future of the franchise if Trotz is going to fumble the ball on easy plays like this.

As we’ve discussed before I don’t think this was anything Trotz necessarily fumbled. It was a contract something like this, trade him, or walk. Hoping Trotz could magically pull of some well below market contract was always a fantasy in my opinion.

Also missed in last nights madness is that Saros finished 5th in Vezina voting somehow.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

As we’ve discussed before I don’t think this was anything Trotz necessarily fumbled. It was a contract something like this, trade him, or walk. Hoping Trotz could magically pull of some well below market contract was always a fantasy in my opinion.

Also missed in last nights madness is that Saros finished 5th in Vezina voting somehow.

Trade him or wait out the year/walk were obvious enough alternatives that it 100% counts as a fumble. There was no pressure whatsoever on Trotz to put Saros under contract for 9 more seasons.

It’s another one of those mantras we heard from Trotz in his early pressers that seems to have fallen by the wayside. No more retirement contracts? Guess not. My confidence continues to be eroded.

The NHL awards voting just continues to be laughable.

 

[beardawg]

Trade him or wait out the year/walk were obvious enough alternatives that it 100% counts as a fumble. There was no pressure whatsoever on Trotz to put Saros under contract for 9 more seasons.

It’s another one of those mantras we heard from Trotz in his early pressers that seems to have fallen by the wayside. No more retirement contracts? Guess not. My confidence continues to be eroded.

The NHL awards voting just continues to be laughable.

It's a bigger fumble if he walks for nothing or gets a sub-par return (to think that Saros under $8m is too much $$ is a pretty hot take as well). Clearly he wasn't getting offered value that he wanted - we don't know what was being offered, but Trotz has been having these discussions with every team that needed a goalie for over a year.

The fans and people on this board set an unrealistic expectation for what Saros could be traded for, and GMBT determined that the Nashville Predators are a better team right now with Juuse Saros than they would be if they traded him. Simple as that

 

[token grinder]

Its a good deal if he can make 60+ starts the next four years. Can always buy out the last 3-4 years if need be. A Cheap backup will be less than 2 mil, and having the backbone of your team for less than 10 million isn't a bad idea. Puts a premium on developing young talent though. Need a couple good sub 1.5 mil rookies (after bonuses) to pan out

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

It's a bigger fumble if he walks for nothing or gets a sub-par return (to think that Saros under $8m is too much $$ is a pretty hot take as well). Clearly he wasn't getting offered value that he wanted - we don't know what was being offered, but Trotz has been having these discussions with every team that needed a goalie for over a year.

The fans and people on this board set an unrealistic expectation for what Saros could be traded for, and GMBT determined that the Nashville Predators are a better team right now with Juuse Saros than they would be if they traded him. Simple as that

I definitely don’t believe we could have traded Saros for good value, at least. I’m with you on that part of things. It’s not the lack of a trade that bothers me. I just think Saros wanted to stay here badly enough that we could have played hardball in negotiations and gotten lower term in particular.

 

[David Singleton]

It's 2 years too long, and $1M too much on AAV. I would have simply let Saros walk before I'd have offered this deal, and I'm extremely disappointed that Trotz was so weak on this negotiation. And that's even assuming there is no NMC anywhere in the contract. If there is, then Trotz needs to be chained to Suter when he gets launched out of that cannon. It does not bode well at all for the future of the franchise if Trotz is going to fumble the ball on easy plays like this.

The Saros contract is horrific on its own, completely independent of the unknowable Askarov variable.

Generally speaking, I'm content to wait to see the full picture that Trotz paints.

That said, while a 6yr/$6.5M contract would certainly be more ideal from a Nashville Predators' perspective, I'm hard-pressed to see this contract as horrific. A $7.5M AAV for a near-elite starting goaltender is not unreasonable and that's before accounting for the league moving into a period of growth for the salary cap (placing him 6th for goalies, and likely 7th once Shesterkin signs his contract).

Regarding the quote on retirement contracts, I don't recall its exact wording and didn't find it with a very quick and very cursory search. There is, however, a big difference on being willing to offer a "retirement contract" for a player with a lot of history with a club, where their work ethic has been on display day-in-and-day-out, versus offering that same contract to an unknown (to the club) free agent.

And even none of that matters when an opportunity arises with "that" (R)FA (whomever that may be for that GM). For example, if Trotz was to swing a crazy trade with Toronto with Marner, or Edmonton with Draisaitl, you can bet they would get 7 year contracts (or 8 if of sign-and-trade variety).

 

[hido]

 

[herzausstein]

WRT saros and being 5th in Vezina this season.

Team on paper shouldve been worse than it was and he (right or wrong) got credit for it. I think most of the credit goes to the massive year Forsberg, ROR, Nyquist, and Josi had (that likely wont repeat itself).

 

[Top 6 Spaling]

Can any cap experts clarify what happens if Saros calls it quits before the contract is up? What if at 36 with 4 years left, he runs out of juice (pun intended) and retires?

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

Generally speaking, I'm content to wait to see the full picture that Trotz paints.

That said, while a 6yr/$6.5M contract would certainly be more ideal from a Nashville Predators' perspective, I'm hard-pressed to see this contract as horrific. A $7.5M AAV for a near-elite starting goaltender is not unreasonable and that's before accounting for the league moving into a period of growth for the salary cap (placing him 6th for goalies, and likely 7th once Shesterkin signs his contract).

Regarding the quote on retirement contracts, I don't recall its exact wording and didn't find it with a very quick and very cursory search. There is, however, a big difference on being willing to offer a "retirement contract" for a player with a lot of history with a club, where their work ethic has been on display day-in-and-day-out, versus offering that same contract to an unknown (to the club) free agent.

And even none of that matters when an opportunity arises with "that" (R)FA (whomever that may be for that GM). For example, if Trotz was to swing a crazy trade with Toronto with Marner, or Edmonton with Draisaitl, you can bet they would get 7 year contracts (or 8 if of sign-and-trade variety).

If it's 2 yrs too long and $1M AAV too much, then I suppose that's not literally "horrific"... I think we could argue the same degree of overpayment numbers (or worse, even much worse) would be true of several past Preds contracts. Schenn's was probably 2 yrs too long and $1M too much also... is that killing us? No. And that's for a #6/7D, not the #1G.

I guess the difference as I see it would be in terms of negotiating leverage. Where sometimes you go out and consciously choose to accept those "overpayment" numbers to secure an identified need on the open market... instead here with Saros we have the asset already in hand, knowing the asset probably very much wants to stay in Nashville, and with it being a contract extension you still have another full season of evaluation available... all of which I would have expected to allow us to avoid some of the "overpayment".

I think in terms of the retirement contracts, the interpretation here is that they are saying Saros is not just any player - he's in that group of "Preds Legends" like Forsberg, Josi, Rinne... the magnitude of which are exempt from any term limits that might otherwise have been implied in Trotz's past comments. And I'm not sure that Saros is a deserving fit in that category. Although after 9 more seasons, maybe he will turn out to be! I also won't be surprised if Trotz needs to go 6- or 7-years into "retirement" territory just to sign some of the UFAs he might be eyeing this summer. So I'm sure anything that was implied by that original comment will entirely fall by the wayside, regardless. And that's just for other more mundane players. Obviously if we were pursing true superstars, term limits would never have applied.

Can any cap experts clarify what happens if Saros calls it quits before the contract is up? What if at 36 with 4 years left, he runs out of juice (pun intended) and retires?

Well, his contract would dissolve and he'd get nothing and we'd owe nothing if he fully retired.

But players basically never do that. Why would he throw away $30M? Instead players "LTIRetire", like Shea Weber did, going on LTIR for the last few years, still collecting their money, still with a Cap hit charged to their team (albeit one which can be replaced on the Cap if needed).

 

[Top 6 Spaling]

Well, his contract would dissolve and he'd get nothing and we'd owe nothing if he fully retired.

But players basically never do that. Why would he throw away $30M? Instead players "LTIRetire", like Shea Weber did, going on LTIR for the last few years, still collecting their money, still with a Cap hit charged to their team (albeit one which can be replaced on the Cap if needed).

Got it - only way I could see that in theory is if the wheels REALLY fell off and it came down to "retire or we're waiving you and sending you to Milwaukee" but wow I hope it doesn't come to that. The LTIRetire piece is a nice protection if needed.