Speculation: Trade, FA & Rumours (Mod warning OP)

[Jimmyjets]

I think teams will be more savvy this time, and it's unlikely that top prospects or young players will be available.

I agree that I think that teams will be more likely to just "take their lumps" and lose a decent player rather than try to negotiate out of it.

That might be why a Seattle trade could be appealing. Ideally we 1) keep Laine or 2) trade him in a 1 for 1 type scenario or 2b) a scenario where we add to him to upgrade a premium position.

However, IF he wants out, would Seattle part with their first ever draft pick for him in a trade? To have a ready made young superstar would be ideal if you were starting a new team.

When I mock the protection lists I don't see a lot of impact forwards being available, but there will be a number of D names that are interesting. I'm projecting that they could take:

For Left D
- Devon Toews/Graves (if the Avs only protect 3D)
- Vince Dunn/Scandella
- Caleb Jones (or Ethan Bear, maybe they protect 4 D though)
- Travis Dermot
- Kyle Capobianco
- Bean or Fleury from Carolina
- Cale Clauge
- Ghost

For Right D
- Kevin Shattenkirk
- Cal Foote (Or maybe they could get Cernak for picking Tyler Johnson? IDK)
- Julius Honka
- Chris Tanev
- Nutivara or Gudas from Florida

Could they make a quantity offer with like their 1st pick + a couple NHL ready D with upside?

I could see Seattle wanting to do it because whoever they draft probably won't be as good as Laine and as you can see above, they will have a million DMen to trade away to try to add some scoring up front.

It's all speculative because there likely will be trades and contract extensions that would change up the protection lists. It's worth discussing though. Who knows, maybe history repeats itself and Seattle gets better players than expected.

 

[Whileee]

I agree that I think that teams will be more likely to just "take their lumps" and lose a decent player rather than try to negotiate out of it.

That might be why a Seattle trade could be appealing. Ideally we 1) keep Laine or 2) trade him in a 1 for 1 type scenario or 2b) a scenario where we add to him to upgrade a premium position.

However, IF he wants out, would Seattle part with their first ever draft pick for him in a trade? To have a ready made young superstar would be ideal if you were starting a new team.

When I mock the protection lists I don't see a lot of impact forwards being available, but there will be a number of D names that are interesting. I'm projecting that they could take:

For Left D
- Devon Toews/Graves (if the Avs only protect 3D)
- Vince Dunn/Scandella
- Caleb Jones (or Ethan Bear, maybe they protect 4 D though)
- Travis Dermot
- Kyle Capobianco
- Bean or Fleury from Carolina
- Cale Clauge
- Ghost

For Right D
- Kevin Shattenkirk
- Cal Foote (Or maybe they could get Cernak for picking Tyler Johnson? IDK)
- Julius Honka
- Chris Tanev
- Nutivara or Gudas from Florida

Could they make a quantity offer with like their 1st pick + a couple NHL ready D with upside?

I could see Seattle wanting to do it because whoever they draft probably won't be as good as Laine and as you can see above, they will have a million DMen to trade away to try to add some scoring up front.

It's all speculative because there likely will be trades and contract extensions that would change up the protection lists. It's worth discussing though. Who knows, maybe history repeats itself and Seattle gets better players than expected.

Only Toews, Dunn, and possibly Bean are of any real interest from that list, and they are nowhere near the level of player I would want the Jets to target for Laine. Seattle would have to add at least a couple of 1st round picks (including an unprotected 1st in 2022), and I doubt they would do that.

I think there are other more viable trade destinations / options for Laine than Seattle.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I agree Eichel > Barzal, no question.

Laine & late 1st is likely roughly equal value in a bubble to Barzal.......but the question isn't just about value it's also about fit. Normally a guy like Laine wouldn't land a similar aged 1C in any straight up trade or even with adds to Laine. But in this case Barzal and NYI might be having contract arguments that are hard to solve, plus a question could be raised similar to Laine is that do either guy want to stay where they currently are without being paid top money. We know Laine legal representation has already suggested a trade is best, I wonder what Barzal is thinking privately. NYI has Nelson who is better suited as a 2C, but could play at 1C. NYI far would want Eichel more then Laine......but if Sabres aren't trading Eichel......then maybe Laine, Jack & 2nd might get their attn as far as value goes even if it's not the best fit wise.

Isles best shot at a replacement 1C might be the long game with our 1st instead of JR + 2nd. Hope to be able to draft a 1C.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I don't think we'd be good trading partners for Barzal. They'd likely want a C. Which means Schiefele, or possibly Laine + Perfetti as starting points.

I believe Barzal is still an RFA, so they likely just go through arbitration.

Has either side filed for arbitration? I think that has already passed for this year.

He has 3 seasons to go before UFA, so the obvious solution when 2 sides can't agree on a long term deal is a 1 or 2 year bridge deal. Even that might cost more than Lou has offered for a long term deal. But they will likely sort that out. The other possibility would be a 4 or 5 year mid term deal for more AAV than a bridge but less than a LT deal would cost.

 

[Whileee]

Has either side filed for arbitration? I think that has already passed for this year.

He has 3 seasons to go before UFA, so the obvious solution when 2 sides can't agree on a long term deal is a 1 or 2 year bridge deal. Even that might cost more than Lou has offered for a long term deal. But they will likely sort that out. The other possibility would be a 4 or 5 year mid term deal for more AAV than a bridge but less than a LT deal would cost.

Barzal isn't eligible for arbitration. His only option is to remain unsigned and sit out (like Connor / Laine last year), or perhaps join a Euro team for the season. He could sign an offer sheet, if he liked any presented to him, but I think that's a very long shot.

My bet is that once it gets down to the wire, he'll end up signing a relatively short deal (maybe as short as a 2-year bridge), and kick the can down the road until the financial situation in the NHL improves. Lou is even more of a grinder in negotiations than Chevy.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Flames don't have the cap space to make it work. They have one million in cap space currently and Barzal is likely to make 2.5 to 3 million AAV more then Monahan. The Islanders are also pretty cap strapped and really can't take back more cap then Monahan from them.

If the Isles had to take back more cap than Monahan, they could. But in that case, why not just give it to Barzal?

IF the Isles came around to looking at trading Barzal Laine + Roslovic might look like a 'better than nothing' kind of compromise to them. It would mean Nelson at 1C and hope that Rosie can play 2C for them. Still a big drop at C for them, but a somewhat off-setting increase at wing.

I think Whileee's suggestion of Barzal + Dobson for Laine + Perfetti has merit - much as I would hate parting with Perfetti. But I think; a) Isles still need to add, b) Isles would need some kind of replacement for Dobson.

This quickly turns into one of those deals that are like trying to level a table by cutting a bit off of 1 leg. I find myself adding another piece, first to one side, then to the other. Isles add Wohlstrom to even out the value. We add Pionk to give them a replacement at RD. Now the cap doesn't work for them and they also need to add value for Pionk. They add Beauvillier. 4 for 3. Maybe we are ahead on value now. So we add a 2nd. OK, now I'm done.

IF that all works out according to how everyone would hope, it could make contenders out of both bubble teams.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Not sure if this has been posted, but
Does a Jonathan Toews for Patrik Laine Trade Make Sense? - NHL Rumors - NHLTradeRumors.Me

Laine, Perreault, and a 1st for Toews, who says no?

I do!

Yikes!!!!

I would have liked to get Toews, with about 3 mil retained, before the Stastny trade. Not now. And never for that price. You have to consider Toews' age.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I'm not 100% against a shief for barzal as a base. Certainly would shake things up, especially with the shief/wheels bromance. Maybe then he could be talked into waiving his NMC

Barzal - perfetti as a 1C/2C punch is sexy.

Connor Barzal Ehlers
Vesalainen Perfetti Laine

It might (might) make sense in a vacuum but Scheif is too good, and so is his contract.

Scheif - Perfetti at 1C/2C is pretty sexy too.

 

[Buffdog]

My train of thought:

1. Based on the fact that schief is more established and on a kickass deal, NYI adds
2. Barzal could be inked to 8 years of cost certainty vs 4 for schief, after which he can bolt or ask for a huge raise
3. Shief isn't old, but our window with barzal and perfetti at c with the rest of our young talent would just be starting to open
4. Maybe drives wheeler out

 

[Jets 31]

Came across a very interesting article in the Athletic. "NHL Trade Value Rankings: The 50 most valuable trade assets in hockey" They looked at age, contract status, production, but bottom line it was who you would pay more for in a trade. No goalies were selected due to the unpredictability of the position. Only 2 Jets made the list Connor at #50 and Scheifele at #33, between Josi and Barkov. The Jets did have 4 honourable mentions in Laine, Ehlers, Helly and Morrissey. Wheeler was a notable exception with age and contract status pretty much ruling him out.

For those with a subscription:

NHL trade value rankings: The 50 most valuable assets in hockey

I never understand the goalies getting so underrated , it's THE most important position on a hockey team. If you don't have goaltending i don't care who you have up front you aren't winning a thing without it. In my mind Helly is our most valuable player and it's not even close.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Agreed.....plus it does nothing to the issue of Laine reportedly wanting out, as per his agent comments, his potential contract demands and adding yet another big cap hit winger......the thing we need the least.

IMO either Laine or Wheeler should be traded.......Wheeler being the captain, cost guaranteed and a no move.......fairly certain Wheeler isn't going anywhere. Plus if you add to that the fact, trading Wheeler & his return doesn't help us win in the next four years........any Laine return helps us win now & over the next four years (our prime window).

Wheeler is not tradeable.
Not sure why you say that a hypothetical trade of Wheeler doesn't help us in the next 4 years though. His cap space could be spent on considerable help. Or are you just thinking of the Wheeler return vs the Laine return?

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Kicked this around earlier in this thread (or a previous one). Here's my post at the time:

Vegas came out of the expansion draft with:
- Marchessault
- Haula
- Tuch
- Karlsson
- Theodore
- #6 pick (their own, wound up as Glass)
- #13 pick (ours , wound up as Suzuki)
- #15 pick (wound up as Brannstrom)

My thoughts are: if we could wind up with the equivalent of Marchessault/Karlsson + Theodore + 2 1sts, that's something I would really take a look at.

That would certainly be worth considering. But I don't think Seattle is going to fare as well as VGK did in the XD. Several teams managed that very poorly. Take Theodore for example. Ducks could have traded him for a good return and given up less to Vegas. He was being talked about here as a trade target for a couple of years before the XD. I don't think Seattle is going to have the equivalent assets. Also remember that Karlsson and Marchessault were not rated all that highly at the time.

Time will tell of course, but we would be trading Laine for some number of assets that teams valued pretty lowly on their own depth charts.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Only Toews, Dunn, and possibly Bean are of any real interest from that list, and they are nowhere near the level of player I would want the Jets to target for Laine. Seattle would have to add at least a couple of 1st round picks (including an unprotected 1st in 2022), and I doubt they would do that.

I think there are other more viable trade destinations / options for Laine than Seattle.

You wouldn't be interested in Foote?
I took Jimmy as meaning one or more of those D plus Seattle's own 1st in '21.

IIRC, they get the same ping-pong balls as the #6 team. So guaranteed no worse than #10, could be 1, 2, 3, or 6-10. Add Foote and it is getting interesting. I assume they would insist on at least 1OA protection. I think it would depend on an assessment of the top 10 prospects. We got Perfetti at #10 this year. If we assume a F = Perfetti we are losing 1 or 2 years of development, maybe 3, before he could move in and replace Laine. Meanwhile we have Foote.

The possible delay for development goes a long way into our 4 (by then 3) year window. OTOH, we are starting to build the next core with Perfetti, Foote, Samberg, Heinola, Seattle 1st plus our own '21 first.

I'm not sure any RHD of that calibre will be there and I also question whether Seattle would surrender that first ever draft pick.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I never understand the goalies getting so underrated , it's THE most important position on a hockey team. If you don't have goaltending i don't care who you have up front you aren't winning a thing without it. In my mind Helly is our most valuable player and it's not even close.

I don't think it is that goalies are underrated. It is just that they are hard to predict and therefore to value.

I agree that Helle is our MVP - right now.

 

[Whileee]

You wouldn't be interested in Foote?
I took Jimmy as meaning one or more of those D plus Seattle's own 1st in '21.

IIRC, they get the same ping-pong balls as the #6 team. So guaranteed no worse than #10, could be 1, 2, 3, or 6-10. Add Foote and it is getting interesting. I assume they would insist on at least 1OA protection. I think it would depend on an assessment of the top 10 prospects. We got Perfetti at #10 this year. If we assume a F = Perfetti we are losing 1 or 2 years of development, maybe 3, before he could move in and replace Laine. Meanwhile we have Foote.

The possible delay for development goes a long way into our 4 (by then 3) year window. OTOH, we are starting to build the next core with Perfetti, Foote, Samberg, Heinola, Seattle 1st plus our own '21 first.

I'm not sure any RHD of that calibre will be there and I also question whether Seattle would surrender that first ever draft pick.

I'm not a big fan of Cal Foote. I could be wrong about that, but I'm not sure he's going to move the needle as a top-4 D. I think we need something considerably better than a borderline #4D prospect and a #6-10 pick for Laine.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I'm not a big fan of Cal Foote. I could be wrong about that, but I'm not sure he's going to move the needle as a top-4 D. I think we need something considerably better than a borderline #4D prospect and a #6-10 pick for Laine.

Fair enough.

I thought Foote was an A+ prospect, that is projecting as a #1 or #2, but that is just the impression I had.

 

[Whileee]

Fair enough.

I thought Foote was an A+ prospect, that is projecting as a #1 or #2, but that is just the impression I had.

If Foote is really an A+ prospect, he's not going to be made available in the expansion draft. TB would move that level of prospect for a big return before letting him go for free.

But I don't think he's regarded that highly. I'd probably rank both Heinola and maybe Samberg as highly, or higher.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

If Foote is really an A+ prospect, he's not going to be made available in the expansion draft. TB would move that level of prospect for a big return before letting him go for free.

But I don't think he's regarded that highly. I'd probably rank both Heinola and maybe Samberg as highly, or higher.

Like I said earlier, I don't think that scenario was realistic. Just talk right now. Wouldn't argue with your assessment of Foote. Just thought he was more highly rated than that.

 

[voyageur]

What do you mean, "former Kings"? Kempe is a current King.

Kempe for Rosie is a lateral move for both teams. Why does either team do that? RW for LW, slight difference in size. Both can play C. We have a lot more LW depth than RW.

I don't think it's that difficult for forwards to play on their off wings, it's a lot easier than playing defense. A lot of forwards prefer it. You could have a checking line of Kempe-Lowry-Copp and that would a tough one to play against. Maybe tougher than with Roslovic because of the physicality.

Roslovic is going to be a tougher negotiation because of Claude Lemieux. If Claude got his son $1.55 million for an 18 point season the number is going to be higher for Roslovic. In a normal season, Roslovic would probably be in the $2 million + bridge range.

 

[surixon]

I don't think it's that difficult for forwards to play on their off wings, it's a lot easier than playing defense. A lot of forwards prefer it. You could have a checking line of Kempe-Lowry-Copp and that would a tough one to play against. Maybe tougher than with Roslovic because of the physicality.

Roslovic is going to be a tougher negotiation because of Claude Lemieux. If Claude got his son $1.55 million for an 18 point season the number is going to be higher for Roslovic. In a normal season, Roslovic would probably be in the $2 million + bridge range.

Meh Chevy doesn't seem to be in any big hurry to accommodate Jack, I'm sure he won't budge on what he deems fair. If Jack wants to hold out it isn't really going to impact the roster much as there are others who can step into his role. Jack has really no cards or leverage here.

 

[lanky]

I absolutely love the way that Chevy doesn't give away the upper hand to kids. Treat them well, be fair, but don't let them call the shots.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I don't think it's that difficult for forwards to play on their off wings, it's a lot easier than playing defense. A lot of forwards prefer it. You could have a checking line of Kempe-Lowry-Copp and that would a tough one to play against. Maybe tougher than with Roslovic because of the physicality.

Roslovic is going to be a tougher negotiation because of Claude Lemieux. If Claude got his son $1.55 million for an 18 point season the number is going to be higher for Roslovic. In a normal season, Roslovic would probably be in the $2 million + bridge range.

Still a non-move. Not worth the trouble of filing the papers.

If there is some small advantage for the Jets in doing this, then there is the identical disadvantage for the Kings and they say no. And vice-versa.

 

[Weezeric]

I still think the Jets are signing one more defenceman.

 

[leer2006]

I don't think it's that difficult for forwards to play on their off wings, it's a lot easier than playing defense. A lot of forwards prefer it. You could have a checking line of Kempe-Lowry-Copp and that would a tough one to play against. Maybe tougher than with Roslovic because of the physicality.

Roslovic is going to be a tougher negotiation because of Claude Lemieux. If Claude got his son $1.55 million for an 18 point season the number is going to be higher for Roslovic. In a normal season, Roslovic would probably be in the $2 million + bridge range.

Except $1.55 a year ago means nothing now. With the effects COVID will have on the cap for who knows how many years to come. If Jack gets an offer of $1.55 he would probably be smart to take it.

 

[BatVader]

I still think the Jets are signing one more defenceman.

I think it’ll be Hamonic for a 2yr x 1m AAV kinda thing.
I just have a feeling Hamonic will be a Jet this season.