Trade, FA and Rumours 2022/23

[Mortimer Snerd]

People believed that about Trouba too, right up until the end there was a fanbase that said Chevy should break the bank to keep him here, believing that he would stay, even suggesting moving Buff to make it happen. Then Trouba played his cards and left the Jets with no options but a trade dictated by the only team he would re-sign with. It sure looks eerily similar to me the path Dubois is on. Except Dubois has never held out because he refused to play a certain position, though I think there was behind the scenes rumblings to have him play centre here over Stastny, last year.

Sure, some similarity. Difference is that NYR needed RHD at the time. Not so much now but that was then.

My point is that Habs simply don't need him now. If he went to UFA they would be well below the best offer. He would need to take a seriously team friendly contract to sign with them. It still could happen, if he wanted to go there that badly. Habs could benefit by then trading another forward and having PLD on a good contract. But if he wants the big money, he would need to go somewhere else.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

It wouldn't be a young guy like Robertson, the Leafs aren't THAT desperate. I think someone like Kerfoot is available - they want to shed salary for sure. LTIR helps right now but they could have a headache later in the year, especially if they want to make a deadline move, so they'd have to send some sort of contract back.

If you traded Dillon for Kerfoot, say, you'd have a 3rd line forward and it opens up a spot for Heinola. Wouldn't be a bad deal necessarily.

I wouldn't touch that if it was up to me. Kerfoot is a pending UFA, just for a start. He also has trade protection so you can pretty much forget about it.

 

[Gabe Kupari]

Could see Pionk going before Nate.

Pionk struggles playing with everyone since the Canadian division contract year.
Schmidt I think is a good vet to have around, need more nate Schmidts not less.

Perfect world you trade Pionk and Stanley instead of Schmidt or Dillon.

 

[Jet]

Could see Pionk going before Nate.

Pionk struggles playing with everyone since the Canadian division contract year.
Schmidt I think is a good vet to have around, need more nate Schmidts not less.

Perfect world you trade Pionk and Stanley instead of Schmidt or Dillon.

Pionk is better than Schmidt and provides better contract value.

There's a reason 88 doesnt get the toughest matchups

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Personally, I would rather keep Dillon for now. The loss of Dillon would make our D cotton ball soft. Especially if the add is Heinola, with Stan not being available for 2-3 weeks.

I am in favor though of trying something a little different and although not ideal, it involves trialing Heinola in Demelo's spot. Can Heinola adjust on the right side, well I don't know, but it seems obvious to me that Heinola is going to need a look on the Jets and soon. I think DeMelo is overvalued by some and Heinola will come close to matching his defense and certainly offer more offense and puck movement. If it works, we could then move DeMelo. Our dearth of Right D does limit my conviction to trading DeMelo, but hey, if it works, it works.

I wanted to rage a little on DeMelo getting beat last night on that goal, but after rewatching that play several times last night after getting home from the game, that was a very good play by Montreal. I would be okay watching Heinola get beat on a very good play, if the potential is there to give something back. DeMelo doesn't have that and never will.

DeMelo may be overvalued by some, including me. But he is either the best defensive Dman we have or the 2nd best. He is certainly the best on the right side. If Heinola could come close to matching DeMelo's defense he would already be in the NHL full time. I think you can be certain of that. Defensive play being Heinola's weakness and DeMelo's strength, it wouldn't be anywhere close.

If Heinola is going to make anyone redundant on our right side, it is Pionk.

Hah ya, it was the 23 combined games that Dahlstrom and Benn played that made the difference…

Funny that Poolman was one of those young defencemen that got an opportunity. Now that he failed, he’s been trotted out as an example of old players blocking younger ones..

Well that's the way it goes. As soon as the player fails, he becomes a road block as long as he is still there.

 

[voyageur]

Pionk is better than Schmidt and provides better contract value.

There's a reason 88 doesnt get the toughest matchups

I think people just don't see what a good player he is. Like the back door pass he put on Connor's stick that Connor rang off the post. He's in my opinion the best passer of all our defense, which is going to create chances. One on one he's been able to play against the best in the league. He does have some hiccups, but as a whole he might in fact be the Jets best defenseman...

 

[voyageur]

Sure, some similarity. Difference is that NYR needed RHD at the time. Not so much now but that was then.

My point is that Habs simply don't need him now. If he went to UFA they would be well below the best offer. He would need to take a seriously team friendly contract to sign with them. It still could happen, if he wanted to go there that badly. Habs could benefit by then trading another forward and having PLD on a good contract. But if he wants the big money, he would need to go somewhere else.

The Habs shed a lot of forward salary, not necessarily talent, at the end of this year. Currently their 2nd line C in Monahan who is a UFA. They could very well need a player like Dubois, because their 3rd line guys like Dvorak and Gallagher aren't going to score a lot. He'd be the guy I'd bring Slafkovsky to the next level with if I was thinking like a GM/coach. I just don't see how an agent can say this summer my client thinks Montreal would be a better fit, expecting to be traded there, and just suddenly say, nope we were just fooling. Dubois is going to go to Montreal, he lives there offseason, and he's a proud French Canadien. The timeline is when.

 

[Jet]

I think people just don't see what a good player he is. Like the back door pass he put on Connor's stick that Connor rang off the post. He's in my opinion the best passer of all our defense, which is going to create chances. One on one he's been able to play against the best in the league. He does have some hiccups, but as a whole he might in fact be the Jets best defenseman...

Agreed

 

[Heldig]

Seems high for a 40-60 point player. He should be closer to 5.

I think 60 point + player may be more accurate moving forward. He has hit that mark 2x with a bad covid year in between.

He is a bit of a unicorn in the NHL as a power forward type C. Plus, he has a lot of leverage in contract talks.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I mean. technically Big Dave has been an NHL coach -- but I doubt he will be again. That was a guy thrown into the deep end coaching for his job who was gonna play everything safe and things worked out accordingly.

The time to integrate young D was years ago when there were 1-3 spots available at nay given time -- and we brought in a procession of plugs who played as badly as our pro scouts, GM and coach must have expected they would.

Now we have several #2D, and a few more 4-7D, 2 of whom have large cap hits / salaries and term, and won't be easy to move. In the wings are Heinola. Samberg, Gawanke, Chisholm and (maybe) Lundmark. Schmidt, fun a guy as he is, seems to have been the tipping point here.

If a logjam like this isn't a problem in terms of asset management I'm not sure what is. Now we run the risk of losing young D talent for pennies on the dollar, with the cap consequences and longterm pipeline issues that may also crop up. Steady pipelines, clear dev paths, clear-eyed management of vets with term and cap -- not sure how much of that applies to our D drafting and dev since JMo / Trouba.


Every game they played -- along with Sbisa, Bitetto, Beaulieu and even Forbort -- was a game that a prospect didn't play.

Poolman isn't great, but he's a dev success insofar as he's carved out an NHL career.

Well, yes but, what prospects did we have back then? The only one we had before Dillon and Schmidt were acquired was Samberg and that would have been rushing him. Niku was given a few chances and didn't make it. He was probably given a much better chance by Mtl and still didn't make it. Maybe we can point back to a failure to recognize D talent and the need for D prospects in the draft.

The complete dissolution of our D corps could have been anticipated, even Buff leaving, though not quite as soon as he did. We didn't need D right away, all at once. We needed to be developing a pool of prospects with potential to step in when the need arrived.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

But last season we didn't have all the AHL tweeners that were mentioned in the post I was responding to. Agreed that once the season was out of reach last year it would have been a good opportunity to give your close prospects some games.

Last year we did have all of them. You can argue that they were better served by another year in the AHL, but we did have them. Heinola & Lundmark were in D+3, Chisholm was in D+4 and Samberg, Kovacevic & Gawanke were in D+5 last year. The year before I think they really were unready. 1 or 2 of them could have been given a little more NHL experience that year, but just a taste.

Prior to getting Dillon and Schmidt, I really expected us to go with Samberg and Kovacevic. There would have been some obvious difficulties there at the start of the season. It would have improved as they adjusted. Then we got Dillon. I liked that because otherwise we were going with Stan at 2LD and 2 rookies on the 3rd pair. I was a lot less happy getting Schmidt and his big contract. There was a reason he was available so cheaply.

This year, I think both Dillon and Schmidt are playing better so that helps. Samberg appears to me to be getting better and has moved ahead of Stan. But they might take turns getting injured and still end up sharing 3LD. Meanwhile, the rest of the prospects need more injuries if they are going to get any chance at all this year.

 

[KingBogo]

Last year we did have all of them. You can argue that they were better served by another year in the AHL, but we did have them. Heinola & Lundmark were in D+3, Chisholm was in D+4 and Samberg, Kovacevic & Gawanke were in D+5 last year. The year before I think they really were unready. 1 or 2 of them could have been given a little more NHL experience that year, but just a taste.

Prior to getting Dillon and Schmidt, I really expected us to go with Samberg and Kovacevic. There would have been some obvious difficulties there at the start of the season. It would have improved as they adjusted. Then we got Dillon. I liked that because otherwise we were going with Stan at 2LD and 2 rookies on the 3rd pair. I was a lot less happy getting Schmidt and his big contract. There was a reason he was available so cheaply.

This year, I think both Dillon and Schmidt are playing better so that helps. Samberg appears to me to be getting better and has moved ahead of Stan. But they might take turns getting injured and still end up sharing 3LD. Meanwhile, the rest of the prospects need more injuries if they are going to get any chance at all this year.

You read my post wrong. I was saying We no longer had the waiver wire plugs we had 3 years ago.

 

[Hunter368]

Adding a good 3C (who’s good at FO’s) who is able to take some pressure off of Lowry at the FO dot might be an idea. Can leave Lowry at C and play new guy on the wing maybe and helps our FO (where we suck) and adds scoring.

Just a thought

 

[jrs]

Adding a good 3C (who’s good at FO’s) who is able to take some pressure off of Lowry at the FO dot might be an idea. Can leave Lowry at C and play new guy on the wing maybe and helps our FO (where we suck) and adds scoring.

Just a thought

I’d Like to see a horvat-lowry pairing

 

[Hunter368]

I’d Like to see a horvat-lowry pairing

Not disagreeing, but he would cost a lot. I was thinking more along the line of a true 3C like Dvorak who would be much cheaper to get.

 

[surixon]

Not disagreeing, but he would cost a lot. I was thinking more along the line of a true 3C like Dvorak who would be much cheaper to get.

I'd make an offer to Bo this summer but am not interested in getting him as a rental. I guess if he signed an extension I'd consider a Heinola plus deal for him.

 

[Hunter368]

I'd make an offer to Bo this summer but am not interested in getting him as a rental. I guess if he signed an extension I'd consider a Heinola plus deal for him.

Agreed no interest in a rental. I suspect signed he would cost a lot more then Ville plus, that’s what turns me off from the idea.

 

[voyageur]

I'd make an offer to Bo this summer but am not interested in getting him as a rental. I guess if he signed an extension I'd consider a Heinola plus deal for him.

I honestly don't think the Jets can afford to trade a lot of prospects or picks to upgrade. They are going to need prospects as players move on, or to replace players who might get traded, and probably will bring in more picks prospects. The Jets are in a good spot to start rebuilding the core though, with good talent still here and some good prospects in the pipeline.

I've got to think Bill Zito in Florida has made a few calls about Heinola. For one the guy is one of the most knowledgeable GMs about Finnish talent. That was his previous job as an agent, finding Finns and finding players a place to play in Finland.

Panthers are playing Montour and Forsling over 24 minutes per game. After that it's an adventure for their defense. Mahura is having a nice season for them stastically, but that's not a good defense.

If I am a guessing man I'd say that once Ekblad and Duclair come off IR, Hornqvist gets shut down for the year, which would give them still almost no Cap space.

But if they don't maybe Sam Bennett is someone who can be shaken out of their organization on a relatively good contract. Bennett to me is more of a 3rd liner than a true 2nd liner but he was on fire last year with Huberdeau. Ideal spot for me on the Jets, besides Lowry and Appleton. But I think such a trade would constrain the Jets Cap wise, and that's always a concern.

On the prospect side of the Panthers a Heinola for Samoskevich trade seems pretty even, Mc Groarty's teammate is having a fine year at Michigan. Only concern there for me would be he is unsigned, and would he sign here?

On more of a prospect level quantity for quality trade, I'd look at Nause, who looks like Florida's best d-prospect in his final year in the Q, Sourdif, who I thought was real good for the Oil Kings, when I saw them eliminate Seattle, and Florida's 2nd (we don't have one of those in the upcoming draft).

But I do think Florida is a very possible destination for Heinola this year. Although maybe Chycrun somehow magically ends up there...

The other one that I wonder about is Columbus, with their Finnish GM, and some pretty big holes in their defense, beyond Werenski.

Just thinking out loud, but what's the chances the Jets could move Heinola and Chibrikov, as I don't know if any Russian will sign in Winnipeg (I mean I think the guys in Canada Kuzmin and Zhilkin are easier to convince), but say for Mateychuk, and a pick (3rd?) or a player like Liam Foudy, who could potentially replace Barron while he's out? Would give the Jets a quality LD who would be hitting his prime right about the same time Morrissey is passing his. Which is kind of the problem that Heinola poses right now, in who he would replace.

 

[surixon]

Agreed no interest in a rental. I suspect signed he would cost a lot more then Ville plus, that’s what turns me off from the idea.

Hard to say the few trade and signs that we have seen haven't brought back killer returns:

Stone - Brannstrome and a 2nd
Patches - Suzuki, Tatar and a 2nd
Jones - Boqvist, two 1sts and a 2nd
Huberdeau and Weager - Tkachuk

So hard to say what he would command

 

[Jet]

Does anyone like the idea of doing a Chychrun for Schmidt, Heinola + pick deal?

Definite upgrade for the Jets top 4, gets rid of the Heinola problem and opens up a bit of cap space to get a forward.

The downside is it's a bit of a future mortgage for the Jets and JC is a ufa in 25

 

[WpgSteve]

Does anyone like the idea of doing a Chychrun for Schmidt, Heinola + pick deal?

Definite upgrade for the Jets top 4, gets rid of the Heinola problem and opens up a bit of cap space to get a forward.

The downside is it's a bit of a future mortgage for the Jets and JC is a ufa in 25

I like it. Don't think the Yotes do though. We'd have to add Perfetti before they'd even think about it. At that point I think we're better off staying put.

 

[GaryPoppins]

I’d Like to see a horvat-lowry pairing

Not sure you bring in Bo Horvat to play 3C. 17 would be relegated to 4th line.

 

[Jet]

I like it. Don't think the Yotes do though. We'd have to add Perfetti before they'd even think about it. At that point I think we're better off staying put.

I'm not sure about that. They aren't getting bites on a trade, and my proposal gives them 2 NHL ready defensemen, one a vet who can play top 4 and pp, and one who has the potential to hit their prime within the Coyotes rebuild window (lol I guess that window never closes).

The only reason I could see then not going for it is they are tanking again this year. Might as well, playing in that joke of an arena.

I don't think Chychrun has quite the value people think right now. He'll be a ufa in 2.5 seasons, and the cap situation in the league rn might prevent teams from picking up cap and not giving it back (dead cap)

 

[Hunter368]

Does anyone like the idea of doing a Chychrun for Schmidt, Heinola + pick deal?

Definite upgrade for the Jets top 4, gets rid of the Heinola problem and opens up a bit of cap space to get a forward.

The downside is it's a bit of a future mortgage for the Jets and JC is a ufa in 25

But he plays LHD doesn’t he? Nate plays RHD

 

[Jet]

But he plays LHD doesn’t he? Nate plays RHD

Yeah that does create a bit of an issue, but I think you figure it out.

A jomo Chych pair would be

Maybe swap Heinola for snerg? That makes me nervous but then we could see if heinola can swim or sink.

Dillon Heinola looked to have a lot of chemistry.

Then you could round out the d pairs with capo demelo, who looked really good last night