Trade deadline's on the horizon. Which way do we go?

[Puckstuff]

Yeah....no. "Win now" when your core is in its mid-20s?

I would say most of our roster is in their prime... and Phil Kessel is at the peak of his career he will never be better then he is now... He is at the point of his career where he is literally playing like a top 5 player

 

[Gary Nylund]

I'd hate to see what we would have to give up for Hamhuis though. These two franchises can't make deals easily it would seem and my personal strong dislike for the Canucks (I basically hate them) makes me think it's best to look elsewhere for fear of their culture/presence leaking into our room. That franchise is heading for a downward trend IMO and I hope somewhere along that ride someone beats the snot out of Burrows. He's the biggest POS in the league- and that's saying a lot with the likes of Marchand out there to choose from.

edit: in response to the thread. Deal all UFA, don't trade any picks and bring up young guys. If there is a deal to be made at the draft, go for it, but forget the deadline deals- you always overpay.

There's 2 sides to every trade. If someone overpays, then the other side therefore ......... (you can fill in the blank here).

Exactly, and then Nonis will assess the team in the off-season to try and improve it even more. To just jump in and trade assets so we can go into "win now mode" it's not smart at all. This is a process, we made the playoffs, this year I'm hoping we can get even more experience and go a bit farther, and then Nonis can take that info and what he saw from the team and make moves based on what we need to go even further. You can't skip steps here, you can't make the playoffs for the first time in 8 years and then all of a sudden say "Hey let's trade all our assets and go get Hamhuis and go get so and so.." it doesn't work.

Getting a guy like Hamhuis will happen in a few years when we're looking for our last piece or two..hopefully. Getting a big name happens usually when contenders are looking for someone to get them over the top, we're not there yet. We're not a Hamhuis away from the cup.

Agree with this. Not just big names, but in general, giving up futures for guys who help you win now is something you do when you have a shot at the cup. And that's why I hate the Bolland trade - we are not close enough to make moves like that.

What I think we should be doing, is seeing if some team who wants to win now has a young talent that they would be willing to give up to win now. Lupul is our most valuable asset who I don't see playing a major role when we are in a position to challenge for the cup, we could add in guys like Reimer, Kulemin, maybe Bolland etc. depending on what the other team needs. If we could get back a young potential stud, someone who isn't making a big contribution yet but might do so say 2-3 years from now ... that's the deal we should be looking for. And Lupul (plus whoever else) can definitely make a big contribution to a team that wants to win now

Anyone remember the trade that sent Brett hull to St. Louis? That was an extreme example of what I mean. Calgary got the final pieces of the puzzle and it worked as they won the cup. St. Louis got worse in the short term, and had Hull score a zillion goals for them down the road. Ultimately, I would say both teams won that trade as both got what they wanted.

Trade Lupul, toss in whatever else it takes, take a step back in the short term to give us a better shot at being a legit contender say 3 years from now. We should try to be St. Louis in this scenario, not Calgary as we're just not good enough for that yet.

 

[gtforepro]

I hope this is not what Nonis is thinking - if it is we're screwed. Objectively we are a very slightly above average playoff bubble team. It would take a miracle for this team to "win now".

Totally agree with all of Gary Nylund's posts. Please please PLEASE don't be "buyers" at the deadline. We're not winning the Cup this year, and that's the ultimate goal. Make moves to make the Leafs better down the road so we can eventually win the Cup.

 

[SprDaVE]

Totally agree with all of Gary Nylund's posts. Please please PLEASE don't be "buyers" at the deadline. We're not winning the Cup this year, and that's the ultimate goal. Make moves to make the Leafs better down the road so we can eventually win the Cup.

You can be a buyer without making it a "win now" scenario.

Trade for a player that will be here for more then a few years. Someone that is or can be locked up for a few years and to make us better.

Nothing wrong with getting a player like that. It helps us now and in the future.

 

[Commander Clueless]

Well, I don't think we'll be selling at this point.


Explore the buyer's market for defense, and probably back down due to price. However, if we could pick up a defensive-oriented right-handed defenseman at a decent price, then by all means.

I think our forward depth is pretty good, so other than maybe a cheap vet grinder short term I don't see them looking too hard into buying in that area (unless of course a #1 center becomes miraculously available).

 

[theIceWookie]

I would say most of our roster is in their prime... and Phil Kessel is at the peak of his career he will never be better then he is now... He is at the point of his career where he is literally playing like a top 5 player

I've never understood why people think a 26 year old is just going to magically drop off and stop playing well.

If he's in his prime, he's just entering it. It's illogical to suggest that he'll never play at this level again.

Player's play high end games all the way up into their mid 30's and sometimes even past. He has no injury issues that suggest he'll start to get beat up, and he appears to only be getting better.

We have a very young core compared to the Cup Winners off recent years with Chicago, Detroit, Boston, Pittsburgh all being quite old. Only LA is close to our average age.

 

[Vexed]

I've never understood why people think a 26 year old is just going to magically drop off and stop playing well.

If he's in his prime, he's just entering it. It's illogical to suggest that he'll never play at this level again.

Player's play high end games all the way up into their mid 30's and sometimes even past. He has no injury issues that suggest he'll start to get beat up, and he appears to only be getting better.

We have a very young core compared to the Cup Winners off recent years with Chicago, Detroit, Boston, Pittsburgh all being quite old. Only LA is close to our average age.

I've always felt its the young ones who think 30 is past your prime

 

[Holymakinaw]

Totally agree with all of Gary Nylund's posts. Please please PLEASE don't be "buyers" at the deadline. We're not winning the Cup this year, and that's the ultimate goal. Make moves to make the Leafs better down the road so we can eventually win the Cup.

We've blew up this team 5 years ago and it's rebuilt. When exactly do want them to start TRYING TO WIN THE CUP?

I'd say that from here on......it's time.

Doesn't mean we have to trade away the farm for old vets. We can still make smart moves for now AND the future.

But we should not be trying to emulate Edmonton's 99 year rebuild. We should be trying to win the frigging CUP now.

 

[hotpaws]

I've never understood why people think a 26 year old is just going to magically drop off and stop playing well.

If he's in his prime, he's just entering it. It's illogical to suggest that he'll never play at this level again.

Player's play high end games all the way up into their mid 30's and sometimes even past. He has no injury issues that suggest he'll start to get beat up, and he appears to only be getting better.

We have a very young core compared to the Cup Winners off recent years with Chicago, Detroit, Boston, Pittsburgh all being quite old. Only LA is close to our average age.

Avg age means nothing , it's the age of your core that matters .

CHI
Toews/Kane are 25
Seabrook is 28 , Keith 30
Hossa 35
Sharp 32

Thier top 2 forwards are young and they also have some quality kids like Saad and Kruger producing

Pitt

Sid and Malkin are 26 and 27 and
Neal 26
Letang 26 ( hopefully he fully recovers )

When you have 2 of the games best players not even in their late 20's you're going to be a cup threat for years too come.

Boston has a young core group of forwards and a young elite goalie . Chara is aging and will leave a huge hole but other than him they have a young core and have quality kids developing/producing ( Hamilton/Krug )

Det is the only team on the downside.

 

[jmart21]

Although deadline deals are often just rentals, they also serve as a valuable "tryout" and can help teams dodge deals like the Clarkson one.

I think Douglas Murray to PIT is a good example; they trade a couple picks for him, bring him in and it doesn't work out. Although you lose some assets, it's probably a lot better than just signing a guy (like Clarkson) to a long term deal without seeing how they gel on your roster.


I would like to see us kick tires on Andy MacDonald come UFA season and as a result, I wouldn't mind us trying to pick up him up at the deadline if it's just for a prospect and/or mid-level pick. He could really tighten up our top 4 and he fits in perfectly with the age group of our core (27).

 

[Trainspotter]

Although deadline deals are often just rentals, they also serve as a valuable "tryout" and can help teams dodge deals like the Clarkson one.

I think Douglas Murray to PIT is a good example; they trade a couple picks for him, bring him in and it doesn't work out. Although you lose some assets, it's probably a lot better than just signing a guy (like Clarkson) to a long term deal without seeing how they gel on your roster.

You know what's even better for figuring out if a player like Clarkson can be a long-term contributor? More than 39 GP.

 

[hotpaws]

You know what's even better for figuring out if a player like Clarkson can be a long-term contributor? More than 39 GP.

I think we should give him the Komi treatment . This is where we keep believing he'll become a better player the following season until we eventually buy him out .

 

[jmart21]

You know what's even better for figuring out if a player like Clarkson can be a long-term contributor? More than 39 GP.

I'm not saying Clarkson is a "bust" yet, I'm just using him as an example because he's been disappointing so far and it's a good, fresh example.

So how do you make an accurate assessment as to whether or not you should invest 7years and $38M to a player. Are you saying it's best to just sign them and see how it goes?

My point remains; TDline doesn't just have to be for rental players and can be beneficial in making plans for pending UFAs.

I'm sure the Wings would like to do things differently Re: Weiss. I'm sure the Pens are counting their lucky stars they got to try D.Murray out before just signing him July 4th.

 

[New Liskeard]

His dumb decisions are exactly why he's not an upgrade on Franson. You're selling the guy as some kind of modern-day Yushkevich when in reality he's more of a smallish, oft-injured Franson who doesn't put up as many points and has been making dumb decisions for even longer.

Oh, and he fights now and again. Maybe he can fight guys to get his jockstrap back after they score on us because he botched his coverage again.

Looks like you didn't read my post, you are going to have re-read it, because your comment says otherwise. Never once did I say he was a defensive dman, and comparing him to Yushkevic says you don't know much at all about Bieksa. Bieksa is smarter and a more experienced player than Franson today, you can dislike the facts all you like, but it is what it is.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

I don't see many moves out there, we are fresh out of 2nd rd picks, and have traded mid rd picks which I think is enough now.

Kulemin was one guy I thought we could move at one point, but he has suddenly become super valuable since he looks like he can be an emergency Center.

If he can be a C/LW/RW, I want this guy signed to a long term contract. What versatility.

 

[Trainspotter]

Looks like you didn't read my post, you are going to have re-read it, because your comment says otherwise. Never once did I say he was a defensive dman, and comparing him to Yushkevic says you don't know much at all about Bieksa. Bieksa is smarter and a more experienced player than Franson today, you can dislike the facts all you like, but it is what it is.

I know he's not a defensive defenseman. That's a given. He also isn't an upgrade on Franson. He's older, gets hurt a lot and doesn't make "good decisions".

 

[New Liskeard]

Of course he's not like Yushkevich. Hell, he's not even as good as Franson.

Franson is a better D than Bieksa? That's great, haven't laughed like that all week. Good luck with that notion.

 

[Trainspotter]

Franson is a better D than Bieksa? That's great, haven't laughed like that all week. Good luck with that notion.

No need for "luck", I'm not the one hoping Nonis will trade "Franson and this years first" for the stiff.

He isn't worth a first on it's own.

 

[noBSleafsFAN]

Being so close to the cap, I really don't know if they'll be able to add a piece. That being said, I think they'll just stand pat with what they have unless someone offers something too good to pass up on one of our UFAs like Kulemin or Raymond.

 

[theIceWookie]

Honestly? We don't go anyway. We stand pat.

I'm of the opinion that biggest acquisition we can give this team is time to mature. Another playoff season would do wonders for them. Let the team grow together.

Maybe move Bolland or Kulemin, and re-sign the other. Whichever is cheaper IMO.

 

[Hotel Mario]

Our trade deadline acquistion is the return of Bolland, bolstering the depth at the C position free of charge.

- I would be really pi**ed to acquire a crappy bottom pairing defenseman, or another forward with intangibles at the expense of picks or prospects. The draft picks often will yield these players, and once in a while will yield an impact player! They can't be thrown around like candy!

- If valuable futures and roster players are to be given up I want tangibles, a player that will represent a clear upgrade at a needed position which is RD.

- With this in mind the TD is a time where GM's feel the pressure to overpay and this is where Nonis must be the vulture instead of the carcass. For example if Nonis is approached with a significant offer, or even futures for Franson (unacceptable defensively, not here long term) he should make the deal immediately. Don't drive him to the airport make him take a cab. We make the other team worse, and get better ourselves by putting in anybody else in his spot.

 

[The Legend]

You know you all would rush out and buy a Jagr jersey....

 

[gtforepro]

We've blew up this team 5 years ago and it's rebuilt. When exactly do want them to start TRYING TO WIN THE CUP?

I'd say that from here on......it's time.

Doesn't mean we have to trade away the farm for old vets. We can still make smart moves for now AND the future.

But we should not be trying to emulate Edmonton's 99 year rebuild. We should be trying to win the frigging CUP now.

I guess I kind of see things going in cycles, especially in a salary cap league. I think a couple years of trying to win trades by making other teams overpay for expendable assets that you might lose anyway would give the Leafs the best chance at finally winning a Cup post-67...