Trade Deadline Thread (March 3)

[Jimmybarndoor2]

If you want to win now (playoff push, playoffs), then you keep Mitts and VO. Quinn to Rochester and Meier with Cozens. We are assuming (from media rumors?) that Grier has to have a roster player back in trade.

Here's what Granato says about Quinn:

"He's a pretty slight guy, and we're trying to prevent physical wear and tear on him until he can as a young guy, he's going to put more strength and more weight, the stuff he doesn't have quite enough of today to go through the grind."

I feel this is one big way to upgrade the forwards for this season. If Quinn is struggling with the regular season grind and the AHL playoffs last season then he is the one you upgrade. You are not trading him away so you still have him for depth this season.

Balance this with, is this the right decision for the team? Does this get them closer to their goal (multiple years of contention)?​

I’d be shocked
Sabres would really have to think that piece would be with team for several years. I don’t see it happening
Could see a short term vet pickup with a 2 yr contact first.

 

[Jim Bob]

If you want to win now (playoff push, playoffs), then you keep Mitts and VO. Quinn to Rochester and Meier with Cozens. We are assuming (from media rumors?) that Grier has to have a roster player back in trade.

Here's what Granato says about Quinn:

"He's a pretty slight guy, and we're trying to prevent physical wear and tear on him until he can as a young guy, he's going to put more strength and more weight, the stuff he doesn't have quite enough of today to go through the grind."

I feel this is one big way to upgrade the forwards for this season. If Quinn is struggling with the regular season grind and the AHL playoffs last season then he is the one you upgrade. You are not trading him away so you still have him for depth this season.

Balance this with, is this the right decision for the team? Does this get them closer to their goal (multiple years of contention)?​

I do not think the Sabres want to move Quinn or Peterka to Rochester. They have proven that they are NHL-ready and being in Rochester wouldn't do much of anything for them.

I like it. I didn't think of Asplund.

Would Guerin want Asplund for a playoff push? He likes his heavy team. I'm thinking Guerin would move Greenway in the offseason. What do we have that Wild need? Cap space? Draft picks?

It all depends on how ticked off he is with Greenway oversleeping and the other rumors of off ice stuff.

Getting Asplund who has shown versatility as a defensive minded bottom six forward and clearing some cap room would likely be something that would at least intrigue Guerin.

And moving Asplund in the deal helps the Sabres with the roster crunch as they can't really add another NHL forward without moving one out.

 

[CaliSabresfan24]

Asplund for Greenway.

Who says no?

I feel like you might need to add a pick but definitely something around that.

I would LOVE to add Greenway into this line up. Sabres lack that physical power forward in there bottom 6. It was interesting to hear Vanek talk about Greenway and feels he has 1st to 2nd line potential if used correctly and think he has underrated hockey IQ. If Donny can turn Greenway into half the player Tage is right now I am all on board if you can get him.

From what I read from Wild fans it sounds like there isn't any other issue than sleeping in and missing one team meeting. I am sure Tage and Donny know him real well and have an understanding of who he truly is.

 

[Jacob582]

I do not think the Sabres want to move Quinn or Peterka to Rochester. They have proven that they are NHL-ready and being in Rochester wouldn't do much of anything for them.


It all depends on how ticked off he is with Greenway oversleeping and the other rumors of off ice stuff.

Getting Asplund who has shown versatility as a defensive minded bottom six forward and clearing some cap room would likely be something that would at least intrigue Guerin.

And moving Asplund in the deal helps the Sabres with the roster crunch as they can't really add another NHL forward witht moving one out.

I agree. Everything they've said and done (waive Hino, etc) tells me that they want Quinn and Peterka in the NHL lineup.

Is Quinn NHL ready? Granato is saying that he is not ready to handle the grind. How does that help us if we make the playoffs?

****************

A seperate thought I had. Granato coached Greenway for a few years. So he would have and idea whether he could be a good fit on this team.

 

[Djp]

I wonder what the ask would be.

Given that it is out there that they are not happy with his off ice habits, I doubt they would be asking for a whole lot.




There are enough playoff contenders that could either afford the $10M QO, or more likely afford a Meier extension, that I doubt you see him go for a less than stellar package because of limited interest.

Carolina has roughly $30M in cap space for next season and they could view Meier as the Max Pax replacement, for instance.

Carolina is the only one with cap space now BUT they have Ajo to resign in 24 and a few ELCs are due. That supposed cap space isn’t really there long term.

ST Louis is possible but there focus would be on a center to use the space they have.

who else is there who can qualify him?

 

[Chainshot]

Greenway came up on the trade board and he seems like a guy who could be a summer acquisition. I don't know if Guerin is willing to move off part of the BIG line they put together at times with Folingo-EEK-Greenway. I like the idea of looking to groom some guys to at least replace or even expand on the roles Gus and KO play.

 

[TheBarnIsElectric]

Have been thinking about stats vs eye test and specifically how that relates to Joki. People have been saying he's been good recently and I think he's been better, but don't feel he's been particularly good (other than the most recent game where he played noticeably well).

So I asked myself, what am I seeing that makes me not like his game? And the answer came quickly: it's turnovers in the defensive zone. Sometimes I think people don't recognize the ones where dmen throw the puck up the boards right to a waiting defenseman at the blue line as turnovers, but they are. Just as bad as passing it right to an opponent IMO, and my feeling is that Joki does this a lot.

So I went looking for stats to see what the reality is, and sure enough, according to Money Puck's data, Joki leads the team comfortably in Dzone giveaways at over one and half per 60. Admittedly that's not terrible league wide, but it's definitely not great and I think reinforces the idea that he could be upgraded.

Dzone Giveaways /60:

Joki: 1.59
Dahlin: 1.25
Power: .88
Sammy: .88
Boosh: .84
Bryson: .58

For comparison:

Fox: .88
Chychrun: 1.22
Toews: .61
Makar: 1.11
Heiskenan: 1.13
Gavrikov: .64

As a side note, I also looked at the turnover/takeaway ratio for defensemen, because I feel like that tells a story. There is a lot of variance among good defensemen around the league in this stat, but one player stood out waaaay above everyone else and that was Jacob Slavin (who the Sabres play tonight). He has 56 takeaways vs 22 total giveaways. That is a ratio of 2.54, which is far and away the best in the league for Defensemen who play consistently. For reference, the next highest is Brandon Carlo at 2.11, and he has 19 total takeaways.

 

[Jim Bob]

Carolina is the only one with cap space now BUT they have Ajo to resign in 24 and a few ELCs are due. That supposed cap space isn’t really there long term.

ST Louis is possible but there focus would be on a center to use the space they have.

who else is there who can qualify him?

Carolina is far from the only team that could fit him under the cap.

NJ is rumored to be in on Meier. They have $36.6M in cap space for next season.

Boston has $22M in cap space for next season with huge question marks with their vets.

Pittsburgh has $19M in cap space for next season and might want to maximize stuff at the tail end of the careers of 87 & 71.

LA has $13M in cap space for next season.

Dallas has $8.6M in cap space for next year and would need to make some moves. But, Meier would be a great add for a team that is looking to maximize things while Seguin & Benn are around.

Seattle has $20M in cap space next year.

The Rangers have $16M in cap space next year.

And Minnesota has $9M in cap space next year even with the $14M in dead cap.

 

[Djp]

Carolina is far from the only team that could fit him under the cap.

NJ is rumored to be in on Meier. They have $36.6M in cap space for next season.

Boston has $22M in cap space for next season with huge question marks with their vets.

Pittsburgh has $19M in cap space for next season and might want to maximize stuff at the tail end of the careers of 87 & 71.

LA has $13M in cap space for next season.

Dallas has $8.6M in cap space for next year and would need to make some moves. But, Meier would be a great add for a team that is looking to maximize things while Seguin & Benn are around.

Seattle has $20M in cap space next year.

The Rangers have $16M in cap space next year.

And Minnesota has $9M in cap space next year even with the $14M in dead cap.

check your work…

LA has $13M but has only 17 under contract. They do not have $10M in space

if he was center he would likely be looking at him given Kopitar ends in 2024.. they are likely looking at PLD/Ajo/Matthews potential market

with Boston the are looking at Pasternik and finding a center.

 

[Djp]

Greenway came up on the trade board and he seems like a guy who could be a summer acquisition. I don't know if Guerin is willing to move off part of the BIG line they put together at times with Folingo-EEK-Greenway. I like the idea of looking to groom some guys to at least replace or even expand on the roles Gus and KO play.

Next season thry need cap space ehich is part of the driver in this.

$10M in space with 14 of 23 under contract.

 

[Jim Bob]

check your work…

LA has $13M but has only 17 under contract. They do not have $10M in space

if he was center he would likely be looking at him given Kopitar ends in 2024.. they are likely looking at PLD/Ajo/Matthews potential market

with Boston the are looking at Pasternik and finding a center.

If you think the Sabres are the only team in on Meier, then you need to check your work.

 

[Chainshot]

Have been thinking about stats vs eye test and specifically how that relates to Joki. People have been saying he's been good recently and I think he's been better, but don't feel he's been particularly good (other than the most recent game where he played noticeably well).

So I asked myself, what am I seeing that makes me not like his game? And the answer came quickly: it's turnovers in the defensive zone. Sometimes I think people don't recognize the ones where dmen throw the puck up the boards right to a waiting defenseman at the blue line as turnovers, but they are. Just as bad as passing it right to an opponent IMO, and my feeling is that Joki does this a lot.

So I went looking for stats to see what the reality is, and sure enough, according to Money Puck's data, Joki leads the team comfortably in Dzone giveaways at over one and half per 60. Admittedly that's not terrible league wide, but it's definitely not great and I think reinforces the idea that he could be upgraded.

Dzone Giveaways /60:

Joki: 1.59
Dahlin: 1.25
Power: .88
Sammy: .88
Boosh: .84
Bryson: .58

For comparison:

Fox: .88
Chychrun: 1.22
Toews: .61
Makar: 1.11
Heiskenan: 1.13
Gavrikov: .64

As a side note, I also looked at the turnover/takeaway ratio for defensemen, because I feel like that tells a story. There is a lot of variance among good defensemen around the league in this stat, but one player stood out waaaay above everyone else and that was Jacob Slavin (who the Sabres play tonight). He has 56 takeaways vs 22 total giveaways. That is a ratio of 2.54, which is far and away the best in the league for Defensemen who play consistently. For reference, the next highest is Brandon Carlo at 2.11, and he has 19 total takeaways.

Good stuff. I haven't minded his stick defense and ability to take away passing plays since returning, but the "cleared but not out" moments are certainly something to look into. He could be someone to upgrade in the grand scheme of things as well though I have him lower on my Sabres hockey Maslow hierarchy.



I would only caution in regards to the takeaway stats that I find that one has variance like official hit stats do - it changes from barn to barn.

 

[Zman5778]

I get huge "he is getting misused" vibes from him. Given how Granato has allowed Thompson and Power to play a skill game when other coaches might try and make them play big boy hockey and not skill guy hockey, I would not hate adding Greenway as a low cost gamble that Granato could unlock a lot of potential that is there.

I think he would be an intriguing bottom six winger that might be able to replace Girgensons or Okposo next season.

Strikes me as a bit of cognitive dissonance here. You're saying that maybe Greenway is misued.....but then are kind of proposing that he replaces Girgensons or Okposo.......who play exactly like Minnesota WANTS Greenway to play?

I'm 100% fine if we acquire him cheap-ish-ly........but if we want to open him up, we can't be requiring him to play the same style that Okie and Z do. And frankly, I think that we need guys that play like Okie and Z on that "4th" line next season as well.

Again, I'm fine if we get him -- but I don't see a real natural fit, especially if he IS getting misused and needs to play a more skill game. What we need for next year is stout defensive forwards.

Asplund for Greenway.

Who says no?

Minnesota says no straight-up. Buffalo needs to add something. Maybe like a 3rd round pick or one of our lesser prospects.

 

[toddkaz]

Wouldn't mind seeing what Vancouver wants for Conor Garland.


Good work ethic
works hard and is relentless
scrappy good puck possession

A bit undersized at 5'10 but he would fit in well here.

 

[Zman5778]

Have been thinking about stats vs eye test and specifically how that relates to Joki. People have been saying he's been good recently and I think he's been better, but don't feel he's been particularly good (other than the most recent game where he played noticeably well).

So I asked myself, what am I seeing that makes me not like his game? And the answer came quickly: it's turnovers in the defensive zone. Sometimes I think people don't recognize the ones where dmen throw the puck up the boards right to a waiting defenseman at the blue line as turnovers, but they are. Just as bad as passing it right to an opponent IMO, and my feeling is that Joki does this a lot.

So I went looking for stats to see what the reality is, and sure enough, according to Money Puck's data, Joki leads the team comfortably in Dzone giveaways at over one and half per 60. Admittedly that's not terrible league wide, but it's definitely not great and I think reinforces the idea that he could be upgraded.

Dzone Giveaways /60:

Joki: 1.59
Dahlin: 1.25
Power: .88
Sammy: .88
Boosh: .84
Bryson: .58

For comparison:

Fox: .88
Chychrun: 1.22
Toews: .61
Makar: 1.11
Heiskenan: 1.13
Gavrikov: .64

As a side note, I also looked at the turnover/takeaway ratio for defensemen, because I feel like that tells a story. There is a lot of variance among good defensemen around the league in this stat, but one player stood out waaaay above everyone else and that was Jacob Slavin (who the Sabres play tonight). He has 56 takeaways vs 22 total giveaways. That is a ratio of 2.54, which is far and away the best in the league for Defensemen who play consistently. For reference, the next highest is Brandon Carlo at 2.11, and he has 19 total takeaways.

That kind of fits the eye test to me -- Joker is usually good for 1 or 2 Lydman-esque hand grenade moments per game. If he could get those under control........I like his positioning, his stick-work and his general solid play. Just needs to get those hand grenade moments down.

Also interesting to note the much-maligned Bryson's rank here.

But as Chain said -- giveaways/takeaways need to be taken with a large grain of salt. They're much like hits and different official scorers score them VERY differently across the NHL.

 

[Zman5778]

Wouldn't mind seeing what Vancouver wants for Conor Garland.


Good work ethic
works hard and is relentless
scrappy good puck possession

A bit undersized at 5'10 but he would fit in well here.

He'd be a good fit as a 3rd liner here......but I have no interest in him at his current cap hit. Nearly $5M AAV for the next 3 seasons? That's untenable and would take us out of big fish hunting.

 

[toddkaz]

He'd be a good fit as a 3rd liner here......but I have no interest in him at his current cap hit. Nearly $5M AAV for the next 3 seasons? That's untenable and would take us out of big fish hunting.

What does Olofsson make? I would take Garland over Olofsson. Not talking trade Olofsson to Vancouver but I would prefer Garland's playing style over Olofsson but seems like Olofsson has gotten himself out of the HFBoards hot seat as of late so to use Olofsson's money on Garland is probably not as popular as saying this a month ago.

 

[debaser66]

on the surface the Horvat trade was around where I expected….

1st+2nd+ roster players to balance the cap.

The 1st is a wildcard in this. I don’t think Horvat will improve the team enough.

it’s similar to the Vanek trade.

The Isles will miss the playoffs, one trade doesnt fix the mess; they looked like a tank team against us.
Ugly Lou Trap is the only reason they re still in it.

 

[Jimmybarndoor2]

Strikes me as a bit of cognitive dissonance here. You're saying that maybe Greenway is misued.....but then are kind of proposing that he replaces Girgensons or Okposo.......who play exactly like Minnesota WANTS Greenway to play?

I'm 100% fine if we acquire him cheap-ish-ly........but if we want to open him up, we can't be requiring him to play the same style that Okie and Z do. And frankly, I think that we need guys that play like Okie and Z on that "4th" line next season as well.

Again, I'm fine if we get him -- but I don't see a real natural fit, especially if he IS getting misused and needs to play a more skill game. What we need for next year is stout defensive forwards.



Minnesota says no straight-up. Buffalo needs to add something. Maybe like a 3rd round pick or one of our lesser prospects.

No right now might turn into yes is they want to bring in another player and need cap room

 

[Nikolajs Sillers]

6 pts in 31 games

Sammy also doesn't have many of them. Stay at home defenceman.

 

[Zman5778]

What does Olofsson make? I would take Garland over Olofsson. Not talking trade Olofsson to Vancouver but I would prefer Garland's playing style over Olofsson but seems like Olofsson has gotten himself out of the HFBoards hot seat as of late so to use Olofsson's money on Garland is probably not as popular as saying this a month ago.

I understand your take -- but Garland's contract runs 2 more years after Olofsson's expires. Regardless of his play of late, many here question Olofsson's long-term fit as a player AND against the cap.

While I do like Garland's style....and is style is certainly better for a 3rd line player...................

That ~$5M AAV for the extra 2 years is just a non-starter with the money we're needing to hand out soon. I'd rather use the cap elsewhere than on a middle 6 guy (that we're likely to have coming up on ELCs real soon).

 

[debaser66]

Meier is what your hoping Quinn becomes now. Quinn could be Oloffson and pt per game forwards do not come up often. Quinn has 3 pts in his last 10. Saying that I'm hoping Quinn is a L1/2 30G, complete player in 5 years.

If NJ gets Meier along with that D coming in a couple years, that will sting.

Arent they different types of players?
Skilled winger / power forward
Meier has more size, Quinn will never be 220 lbs

 

[TheBarnIsElectric]

That kind of fits the eye test to me -- Joker is usually good for 1 or 2 Lydman-esque hand grenade moments per game. If he could get those under control........I like his positioning, his stick-work and his general solid play. Just needs to get those hand grenade moments down.

Also interesting to note the much-maligned Bryson's rank here.

But as Chain said -- giveaways/takeaways need to be taken with a large grain of salt. They're much like hits and different official scorers score them VERY differently across the NHL.

good to know. I wasn't aware of that. It definitely explains why you don't hear that stat quoted very often.

 

[Zman5778]

If we're looking for a bottom 6 type -- Tyler Motte is a guy we should be keeping an eye on, IMO. VERY good bottom 6er. Shouldn't be too expensive and could slide right in if needed.

 

[Jim Bob]

Strikes me as a bit of cognitive dissonance here. You're saying that maybe Greenway is misued.....but then are kind of proposing that he replaces Girgensons or Okposo.......who play exactly like Minnesota WANTS Greenway to play?

I'm 100% fine if we acquire him cheap-ish-ly........but if we want to open him up, we can't be requiring him to play the same style that Okie and Z do. And frankly, I think that we need guys that play like Okie and Z on that "4th" line next season as well.

Again, I'm fine if we get him -- but I don't see a real natural fit, especially if he IS getting misused and needs to play a more skill game. What we need for next year is stout defensive forwards.

Just because he would replace one of them in the lineup does not mean that Granato would use Greenway the same way he has ZG & Okposo.

I would expect Granato to use Greenway in a different way regardless of the line he landed on.