Speculation: Trade Deadline Talk - March 8th, 2024

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Knight gives me Markstrom vibes. Like he's eventually really going to thrive as a #1 goalie in this league but might not be as soon as we were hoping. If we can be patient like you said, I think he keeps our window open for another decade if he pans out. That's the risk of moving on from him.
I mean, the kid is still just 22 (will turn 23 in April); he is in his D+5 year (5th season since being drafted). We put him into a backup role in his D+3 year, which is extremely soon for a goalie - out of all U30 goalies currently playing meaningful games in the NHL, only Vasilevsky and Carter Hart entered the league that young. For a future starting goalie in his D+5 year, establishing himself as the n.1 in the AHL is a perfectly normal development - and Knight has done that much at least. I looked into this some time ago and there've been extremely few goalies who entered the NHL as young as Knight and succeeded at becoming clear-cut, solid starters (IIRC, 2 guys over the past 2 decades; Vasilevsky and Fleury, both Vezina guys). We rushed him instead of being patient, the OCD issues hurt him further; hopefully, he can get back on track, but it might take a while.

The only goalie in the NHL this season who is Knight's age or younger and played a meaningful amount of games in the NHL was Levi (D+4), which IMO was also rather premature, although Buffalo figured that out relatively soon and sent him down, where he's doing well.

If you look at young goalies playing in the NHL now, you get Hofer (D+6, 22 games) and Dostal (D+6, 27 games) as backups, both notably on non-playoff teams, though doing okay. A couple more guys have also played some games (<20), but they are splitting time with the AHL. At D+7, you add Ukko-Pekka Lukkonen, Kochetkov and Errson playing a meaningful amount of games, and that's it.

When you look at the young goalies (<30) who are currently NHL starters or at least 1Bs, Swayman got his first sniff of the NHL in his D+4 year, and became a 1B in year D+5. Skinner saw some NHL time in his D+5 year, and became a starter in year D+6. Oettiger was an NHL backup in year D+4; starter in year D+5. Gustaffson (MIN) first sniffed NHL in his D+5 year, currently a 1A in year D+8. Adin Hill played 13 NHL games in what should have been his D+5 year; still wasn't even a clear backup in year D+8, won a SC last year in his D+9 year. Daccord, Seattle's starter, didn't play more than 5 NHL game in a single season until this year, which is his D+9. Demko first sniffed the NHL in his D+5 year, became backup in D+6, starter in D+8. Jarry in Pittsburgh acted shortly as an NHL backup in his D+5 year before spending more time in the NHL, took over the starting role in year D+9. Shestyorkin was an NHL backup in year D+6, became a starter in year D+7. Connor Ingram in Arizona was a backup in year D+7 and is now a starter in year D+8. Sorokin was a backup in his year D+7; became a starter in year D+8 (although in his case, his KHL years might be screwing the picture a bit). Logan Thompson (Vegas's other goalie) became an NHL backup in year D+7; 1B in year D+8. Carter Hart is one of those "very promising, rushed into the league" guys: acted as a backup in year D+3, currently in year D+8, has yet to establish himself as a clear-cut starter. Saros became a backup in year D+4; 1B in year D+7, starter in year D+8. Our good old friend Sam Montebeault first sniffed the NHL in his D+4 year; became a 1A/B in year D+7. Merzlikins became a backup in year D+6, a starter in year D+8 (currently relegated back to 1B level). Georgiyev became a backup in year D+5, became a starter in year D+9. Blackwood became a backup in year D+4; still not a clear starter. Vasilevsky, the rare successful freak of nature, became a backup in year D+3 and a starter in year D+5. Vanecek became a 1B in year D+7 and that's probably his limit. Korpisalo became a backup in year D+4, a 1B in year D+7 and hasn't been more than that. samsonov became a backup in year D+5, a 1B in year D+7 and has yet to establish himself as a solid starter.

TL:;DR: Knight's contract was stupid and extremely premature; expecting him to be a starter last year was crazy optimistic - we essentially expected him to be Vasi 2.0. His development curve so far has been very uneven; nevertheless, he is approximately where he should be as a future NHL starter (or at least 1B) right now. If he doesn't play as an NHL backup and/or put together a very strong AHL campaign next year, that's when I'd start to worry.
 
Yeah I don't think it would be a bad PR move. The Panthers are in the thick of a SC hunt and have a player making 4.5 million playing in the minors. With the upcoming UFAs they need all the space they can get to keep the team together so moving him would be understandable from that perspective.

But I don't see Zito selling Knight pennies on the dollar like he's a cap dump, that would be stupid. Adan Hill went through the same stuff and is doing just fine. Knights ability is still there, just need to be patient.

Since there's no counter argument I think that it'll remain as a bad move. Zito was in a hurry to sign Spencer to that contract so he has to have a some sort of long term plan and I don't think it includes trading him as a cap dump.

Zito has been on the record saying that if there is an opportunity to make the team better, he would explore that opportunity. Not that I think Ottawa is going to trade Brady, but acquiring him would be a significant upgrade and anyone who would try to spin trading Knight into bad PR would just be trolling and/or just a hater.

Has there ever been a GM saying the opposite, that he isn't trying to make the team better, actively not trying to look what options are available to him?

The bottom line is that Zito is trying to build a team here. Not trying to pursue the hottest names on the trade market and cross his fingers that they work together as a cohesive team. I know that this sounds trolling to you but for this reason Zito isn't trading for Brady.
 
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I wouldn't trade Barkov straight up for Brady, much less that package.
Don't worry, nobody else in the league would either.

Barkov is approaching Crosby levels of play at this stage of his career. Trading him would be the dumbest shit ever.

Look at the history of star players getting traded. The haul is absolutely NEVER 2 established NHLers (one of which is a top-5 player at his position in the league) and a top prospect. It's always a good prospect, a middling roster player or two and draft picks.
 
Since there's no counter argument I think that it'll remain as a bad move. Zito was in a hurry to sign Spencer to that contract so he has to have a some sort of long term plan and I don't think it includes trading him as a cap dump.



Has there ever been a GM saying the opposite, that he isn't trying to make the team better, actively not trying to look what options are available to him?

The bottom line is that Zito is trying to build a team here. Not trying to pursue the hottest names on the trade market and cross his fingers that they work together as a cohesive team. I know that this sounds trolling to you but for this reason Zito isn't trading for Brady.

I think in regards to Zito, we tend to forget he is still pretty new at being a GM.

We were his first gig as the guy. To his credit, he had a vision and stuck to it. He has an eye for talent, the right talent that fits what he wants and is doing it.

But you can see the first 2 to years he was learning the other things and he has grown to be better and better. Knight was a growing pain along with the Chiarot trade. He was conservative in spots where maybe he should have been more liberal (Verhaeghe, Benny, Forsling contracts come to mind in terms of length). But hey, hindsight right?

We aren't getting brady simply because we don't have the assets for him, but he probably is a fit for what Zito wants. Not to mention, it's publicly known Matty wants to play with him AT SOME POINT.

I think Knight will be dealt to be honest with you. 4.5 million is a large cap hit and considering our cap crunch, he wont be scrutinized for wanting to move out a "backup" with that price tag. I am medium high on the kid. But if they can roll out a defense like this year over year, Knight can flourish for sure (that high glove though is a gigantic red flag). But we can probably find one after Bob rides off. Hell, Luongo was pretty damn good at 38-39 for us before his Hip died. Maybe bring Bob back at a much much cheaper deal on a year to year basis
 
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I mean, the kid is still just 22 (will turn 23 in April); he is in his D+5 year (5th season since being drafted). We put him into a backup role in his D+3 year, which is extremely soon for a goalie - out of all U30 goalies currently playing meaningful games in the NHL, only Vasilevsky and Carter Hart entered the league that young. For a future starting goalie in his D+5 year, establishing himself as the n.1 in the AHL is a perfectly normal development - and Knight has done that much at least. I looked into this some time ago and there've been extremely few goalies who entered the NHL as young as Knight and succeeded at becoming clear-cut, solid starters (IIRC, 2 guys over the past 2 decades; Vasilevsky and Fleury, both Vezina guys). We rushed him instead of being patient, the OCD issues hurt him further; hopefully, he can get back on track, but it might take a while.

The only goalie in the NHL this season who is Knight's age or younger and played a meaningful amount of games in the NHL was Levi (D+4), which IMO was also rather premature, although Buffalo figured that out relatively soon and sent him down, where he's doing well.

If you look at young goalies playing in the NHL now, you get Hofer (D+6, 22 games) and Dostal (D+6, 27 games) as backups, both notably on non-playoff teams, though doing okay. A couple more guys have also played some games (<20), but they are splitting time with the AHL. At D+7, you add Ukko-Pekka Lukkonen, Kochetkov and Errson playing a meaningful amount of games, and that's it.

When you look at the young goalies (<30) who are currently NHL starters or at least 1Bs, Swayman got his first sniff of the NHL in his D+4 year, and became a 1B in year D+5. Skinner saw some NHL time in his D+5 year, and became a starter in year D+6. Oettiger was an NHL backup in year D+4; starter in year D+5. Gustaffson (MIN) first sniffed NHL in his D+5 year, currently a 1A in year D+8. Adin Hill played 13 NHL games in what should have been his D+5 year; still wasn't even a clear backup in year D+8, won a SC last year in his D+9 year. Daccord, Seattle's starter, didn't play more than 5 NHL game in a single season until this year, which is his D+9. Demko first sniffed the NHL in his D+5 year, became backup in D+6, starter in D+8. Jarry in Pittsburgh acted shortly as an NHL backup in his D+5 year before spending more time in the NHL, took over the starting role in year D+9. Shestyorkin was an NHL backup in year D+6, became a starter in year D+7. Connor Ingram in Arizona was a backup in year D+7 and is now a starter in year D+8. Sorokin was a backup in his year D+7; became a starter in year D+8 (although in his case, his KHL years might be screwing the picture a bit). Logan Thompson (Vegas's other goalie) became an NHL backup in year D+7; 1B in year D+8. Carter Hart is one of those "very promising, rushed into the league" guys: acted as a backup in year D+3, currently in year D+8, has yet to establish himself as a clear-cut starter. Saros became a backup in year D+4; 1B in year D+7, starter in year D+8. Our good old friend Sam Montebeault first sniffed the NHL in his D+4 year; became a 1A/B in year D+7. Merzlikins became a backup in year D+6, a starter in year D+8 (currently relegated back to 1B level). Georgiyev became a backup in year D+5, became a starter in year D+9. Blackwood became a backup in year D+4; still not a clear starter. Vasilevsky, the rare successful freak of nature, became a backup in year D+3 and a starter in year D+5. Vanecek became a 1B in year D+7 and that's probably his limit. Korpisalo became a backup in year D+4, a 1B in year D+7 and hasn't been more than that. samsonov became a backup in year D+5, a 1B in year D+7 and has yet to establish himself as a solid starter.

TL:;DR: Knight's contract was stupid and extremely premature; expecting him to be a starter last year was crazy optimistic - we essentially expected him to be Vasi 2.0. His development curve so far has been very uneven; nevertheless, he is approximately where he should be as a future NHL starter (or at least 1B) right now. If he doesn't play as an NHL backup and/or put together a very strong AHL campaign next year, that's when I'd start to worry.
Fantastic data and analysis. Bottom line, as you state, the Knight contract was a rare Zito mistake. And because Spencer is such a perfectionist, the extra money may have added to his psyche as a burden.
 
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Since there's no counter argument I think that it'll remain as a bad move. Zito was in a hurry to sign Spencer to that contract so he has to have a some sort of long term plan and I don't think it includes trading him as a cap dump.



Has there ever been a GM saying the opposite, that he isn't trying to make the team better, actively not trying to look what options are available to him?

The bottom line is that Zito is trying to build a team here. Not trying to pursue the hottest names on the trade market and cross his fingers that they work together as a cohesive team. I know that this sounds trolling to you but for this reason Zito isn't trading for Brady.
Not at all. It’s nice to day dream about getting the Tkachuk brothers together without having to dig too deep into assets, but we all know it won’t happen. I was just defending the case that if Knight were to be put in a deal like that, it would be tough to say it’s a bad PR move
 
The top names being paired up with teams by nhl.com are

Duclair
Vatrano
Bjugstad
E Johnson
Lyubushkin
Hanifin
Tanev (gone to Dallas)
Allen
Tarasenko
Dumba
Guentzel
Wennberg
N Dowd
S Walker

Of course, who do they pick from that list for the Panthers? Yeah, Duclair. Everyone else gets someone who would really help.
 
The top names being paired up with teams by nhl.com are

Duclair
Vatrano
Bjugstad
E Johnson
Lyubushkin
Hanifin
Tanev (gone to Dallas)
Allen
Tarasenko
Dumba
Guentzel
Wennberg
N Dowd
S Walker

Of course, who do they pick from that list for the Panthers? Yeah, Duclair. Everyone else gets someone who would really help.
Not to get ahead of ourselves or too cocky, but we could not make a move at all and still be in a better spot than most teams. Probably just paired us with Duke so they’d have something to write about. Everyone loves a good homecoming story anyways
 
What do you guys think of adding Yakov Trenin? Filipovic suggested him as a potential fit for us on his podcast.
Is Nashville selling? I think they should because draft picks would help more than 5 playoff games but with a small market I doubt it. They're pretty comfortably in a playoff spot right now.
 
Seravelli said in his pod that Zito has been busy but he is being wise about spending.

He suggested Patches

I'm worried He would disintegrate with our style of play lol
 
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