Trade Deadline Chat II

[BigKing]

this is something that a lot of fans, Kings fans in particular, have a hard time understanding. winning is a challenge in itself but staying a winner is something only a select few GMs have done. I can think of only one GM in the salary cap era thats managed to ice a contending team 3+ seasons in a row and I think we all know who it is

Bob Murray? Ken Holland? Ray Shero? Chiarelli?

 

[damacles1156]

The Av's stood pat on Landy/Duchene like I thought they would.

No one was going to pay the prices Colorado was asking, and the Av's didn't have to trade either of them.

 

[damacles1156]

For it being a seriously weak draft, very few teams gave up prime picks.

 

[Ollie Weeks]

For it being a seriously weak draft, very few teams gave up prime picks.

For now. Draft day is on the other side of the expansion draft; probably be hotter then.

 

[Brodeur]

The Av's stood pat on Landy/Duchene like I thought they would.

No one was going to pay the prices Colorado was asking, and the Av's didn't have to trade either of them.

At least for me, it made more sense to wait until they saw how the draft lottery unfolds. My asks for Duchene/Landeskog might be different if I know I'm getting Nolan Patrick as opposed to Timothy Liljegren.

For it being a seriously weak draft, very few teams gave up prime picks.

That was a little unexpected, but somebody noted how so 1996 1st rounders were traded at that year's deadline either. At the time, scouts knew how dreadful that years crop was.

Maybe out of principle, some GMs just couldn't justify dealing a first rounder for a less than stellar player and would rather give their scouts a chance. 2007 was supposed to be a below average draft year as well and San Jose moved a pair of first rounders to acquire Craig Rivet and Bill Guerin. Montreal and St. Louis turned those picks into Max Pacioretty and David Perron.

Seemingly worthwhile gamble for the Sharks. Pacioretty/Perron (along with Mikael Backlund) were about the only three above average NHLers in the 15-40 range. The Sharks even traded back into that year's first round for Nick Petrecki.

 

[theMajor]

Bob Murray? Ken Holland? Ray Shero? Chiarelli?

I dont think the Ducks, Wings, Devils/Pens (ok maybe the Pens) or the Bruins have been considered heavy cup favorites 3+ years running. Im talking about the one and only Stan Bowman (even though Tallon does deserve some credit)
my point is that most teams, after winning a cup, lose players/personnel due to cap issues and most of the time they fade out from their former glory. it takes an extremely savvy GM to be able to replenish the team/prospect pool with the necessary talent while staying on top and remaining in contention. Dean's made some blunders over the last few seasons which were compounded by some real bad luck but overall hes been a pretty damn good GM

 

[BigKing]

I dont think the Ducks, Wings, Devils/Pens (ok maybe the Pens) or the Bruins have been considered heavy cup favorites 3+ years running. Im talking about the one and only Stan Bowman (even though Tallon does deserve some credit)
my point is that most teams, after winning a cup, lose players/personnel due to cap issues and most of the time they fade out from their former glory. it takes an extremely savvy GM to be able to replenish the team/prospect pool with the necessary talent while staying on top and remaining in contention. Dean's made some blunders over the last few seasons which were compounded by some real bad luck but overall hes been a pretty damn good GM

So contending team or heavy cup favorite?

Also, cap era begins in the mid 00's. Detroit was the 2nd best team in '07 and then went to the Finals two years in a row.

Pens went to the Finals two years in a row and then had a 100 point season and a first round series in following.

Bruins won in 2011 and went to the Finals in 2013. Definitely considered a contender in 2012.

Ducks have won five straight division titles. Lost to a Detroit team that almost took out the Hawks in 2013 and then lost to the eventual champion in 2014 and '15. That is a contender.

Anyways, I don't even know if there is an actual "heavy favorite" to win the Cup every year. Hawks in 2013 might be the only one after they started the shortened season on fire. I know you are trying to defend DL here, which is fine, but there are plenty of GMs that have been able to maintain a contending roster for three seasons.

The real difficult move is to do it for a long time. That's where Bowman comes in but, even then, there are first round playoff exits. DL got his three seasons but then the tough decisions come up with contracts and such.

 

[theMajor]

So contending team or heavy cup favorite?

Also, cap era begins in the mid 00's. Detroit was the 2nd best team in '07 and then went to the Finals two years in a row.

Pens went to the Finals two years in a row and then had a 100 point season and a first round series in following.

Bruins won in 2011 and went to the Finals in 2013. Definitely considered a contender in 2012.

Ducks have won five straight division titles. Lost to a Detroit team that almost took out the Hawks in 2013 and then lost to the eventual champion in 2014 and '15. That is a contender.

Anyways, I don't even know if there is an actual "heavy favorite" to win the Cup every year. Hawks in 2013 might be the only one after they started the shortened season on fire. I know you are trying to defend DL here, which is fine, but there are plenty of GMs that have been able to maintain a contending roster for three seasons.

The real difficult move is to do it for a long time. That's where Bowman comes in but, even then, there are first round playoff exits. DL got his three seasons but then the tough decisions come up with contracts and such.

from 2005/06 on, the Pens and Wings were competitive but both only won the cup once with finals appearances before or after their wins. the Bruins were in the same boat with a cup win and a finals appearance not too long after. the Ducks won a lot of regular season titles but had some 1st and 2nd round exits and a conference finals loss in 2015. my point is that the Kings had more success between 2012-2014 then all of the teams I just listed and for some reason Lombardi gets ****ted on daily by some posters here. cup winning teams never, ever stay together for more than a few seasons for a reason. being able to let players walk and filling their roster slots with cheaper but still effective players is a hard thing to do. some of it is being an alluring place for UFAs, some of it is drafting, some of it is trading and some of it is luck. I guess I am trying to defend DL in a way, I dunno. It just really bugs me how many fans lambaste Dean for his mistakes and yet are so quick to forget what hes done for this club

 

[SCARFACE909]

DL said the hope so to speak is Iggy has an impact similar to Vinny did last year, they'd be super happy if that was case.

Also said he wants Kempe and LaDue in lineup due to their speed and mentioned that not being Kings (Dwight) game at all and Montreal already has good group of skilled and speedy guys that King will complement that for them.

 

[BigKing]

from 2005/06 on, the Pens and Wings were competitive but both only won the cup once with finals appearances before or after their wins. the Bruins were in the same boat with a cup win and a finals appearance not too long after. the Ducks won a lot of regular season titles but had some 1st and 2nd round exits and a conference finals loss in 2015. my point is that the Kings had more success between 2012-2014 then all of the teams I just listed and for some reason Lombardi gets ****ted on daily by some posters here. cup winning teams never, ever stay together for more than a few seasons for a reason. being able to let players walk and filling their roster slots with cheaper but still effective players is a hard thing to do. some of it is being an alluring place for UFAs, some of it is drafting, some of it is trading and some of it is luck. I guess I am trying to defend DL in a way, I dunno. It just really bugs me how many fans lambaste Dean for his mistakes and yet are so quick to forget what hes done for this club

Fair enough.

Everyone that ***** on him will forever love the guy for that three year stretch.

This is the third season since the end of that three year stretch and there is one playoff victory v. the 41 playoff wins during the 2012-'14 stretch.

He gets roasted now because of what we are all looking at and a lot of it being due to decisions he has made. Doesn't mean that everyone here isn't eternally grateful to him for what he has done, but nobody should have to preface their criticism of him by saying they respect what he did previously: it goes without saying.

 

[Winger23]

I'm torn. I want to see the kings in the playoffs, but I don't see much needed changes if they do make it. And as much as I love quick, watching Bishop has me torn on which one I want them to keep going forward...

 

[theMajor]

I'm torn. I want to see the kings in the playoffs, but I don't see much needed changes if they do make it. And as much as I love quick, watching Bishop has me torn on which one I want them to keep going forward...

take it back!

 

[Winger23]

take it back!

I know right? I feel dirty for saying it just less stressful to watch...

 

[Herby]

Chiming in kind of late on the King trade...

Some kind of trade had to be made, you just can't keep guys like King, Clifford, Nolan, Lewis, Andreoff etc. all on the roster for as long as they have been. The roster just becomes stale without infusion of youth or new blood. And also the cap management off because ideally you should be developing players on ELC's or low cap hit 2nd contracts to replace guys like King and Clifford. We have seen that happen with LaDue, Gravel and Forbort replacing Greene, Mitchell and Scuderi at a cap savings of like $7 million. Unfortunately we have not been able to do that with our forwards.

I honestly would have preferred to see Clifford go, but I think King being an UFA made it easier to part with him than any of the other similar players on the roster to him.

 

[kingsfan28]

Jeff Marek is an idiot. "The Kings might be the slowest team in the league and it's not as if they have a bunch of fast hockey players"

Mr.Universe: Kings miss playoff last year because slow [Marek nods in agreement]

I would hardly call us the slowest. He really needs to stop watching the Oilers every night and stop basing his opinion off of them and look around more.

 

[ScoreZeGoals]

DL said the hope so to speak is Iggy has an impact similar to Vinny did last year, they'd be super happy if that was case.

Also said he wants Kempe and LaDue in lineup due to their speed and mentioned that not being Kings (Dwight) game at all and Montreal already has good group of skilled and speedy guys that King will complement that for them.

He should probably tell that to Sutter

 

[Whiskeypete]

Chiming in kind of late on the King trade...

Some kind of trade had to be made, you just can't keep guys like King, Clifford, Nolan, Lewis, Andreoff etc. all on the roster for as long as they have been. The roster just becomes stale without infusion of youth or new blood. And also the cap management off because ideally you should be developing players on ELC's or low cap hit 2nd contracts to replace guys like King and Clifford. We have seen that happen with LaDue, Gravel and Forbort replacing Greene, Mitchell and Scuderi at a cap savings of like $7 million. Unfortunately we have not been able to do that with our forwards.

I honestly would have preferred to see Clifford go, but I think King being an UFA made it easier to part with him than any of the other similar players on the roster to him.

thankful for what King accomplished, but also thankful he has been moved. all of the grinders are expendable assets, it sounds harsh but its the truth. there are plenty of plumbers waiting to fill that role and be equally effective. re-signing them only ties up money and reduces flexibility.

this is one area Bowman has excelled and kept the Hawks relevant, recharged and in the hunt. Stan overturns the bottom of the roster without looking twice.

i'm ready to see Clifford, Lewis and Andreoff move along as well. these guys are a dime a dozen. i like Nolan and what he brings compared to them - more speed, some flashes of skill and willing to mix it up more than the others. the rest have one or two tools, but not all of them. at the same time if Dean can upgrade Nolan, then do it. he needs to stop be married to these guys and move along

 

[kingsfan28]

I'm not surprised at all King was moved. UFA and had been playing so bad lately. Hell, of his 6 goals, I'm pretty sure only 1 goal came with him actually shooting the puck with the rest bouncing off a body part or a defensemans stick. Iggy is a big upgrade over him around the net, because we all know he can finish and not shoot high and wide 5 feet around the paint. Low risk move, and I'm glad we didn't selling our future again for a quick fix.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Fair enough.

Everyone that ***** on him will forever love the guy for that three year stretch.

This is the third season since the end of that three year stretch and there is one playoff victory v. the 41 playoff wins during the 2012-'14 stretch.

He gets roasted now because of what we are all looking at and a lot of it being due to decisions he has made. Doesn't mean that everyone here isn't eternally grateful to him for what he has done, but nobody should have to preface their criticism of him by saying they respect what he did previously: it goes without saying.

I think part of the reason the previously mentioned teams have been 'competitive' for so long, though (i.e. Ducks, Sharks), is because their GMs either haven't had the balls or foresight to 'go for it' when their window was directly open. So they continued to stockpile assets, but nothing has gotten them over the hump. We emptied the farm, but have two cups and a WCF to show for it; hell, if not for us, we might well be talking about the Hawks threepeat, 4 Cups in 5 years instead.

 

[kingsfan28]

I think part of the reason the previously mentioned teams have been 'competitive' for so long, though (i.e. Ducks, Sharks), is because their GMs either haven't had the balls or foresight to 'go for it' when their window was directly open. So they continued to stockpile assets, but nothing has gotten them over the hump. We emptied the farm, but have two cups and a WCF to show for it; hell, if not for us, we might well be talking about the Hawks threepeat, 4 Cups in 5 years instead.

I agree, neither has had the stones to do what DL did to win it all. The Ducks talking heads love to talk about how awesome their prospects are, yet still won't move any of them to make them a championship team again. So now they're stuck with a glut of high end prospects that will need to be paid or traded by the time their window has closed. Getzlaf and Perry are starting to age out, especially Perry as of late and for years they keep holding on to high end prospects when they've needed better players to support those two, and could've used them to improve their forward lines.

 

[johnjm22]

The Av's stood pat on Landy/Duchene like I thought they would.

No one was going to pay the prices Colorado was asking, and the Av's didn't have to trade either of them.

I think they do have to trade Duchene at some point. I don't think he has any intention of resigning when his current deal is up. The longer they wait to trade him the less his value becomes.

It's only a matter of time.