GDT: Trade and Free Agency Thread - Training camp approaches

[LeafChief]

Feels like there is still another move coming.

 

[TheGreatOne11]

Feels like there is still another move coming.

I would be astonished if this was everything. We're getting another defenceman most likely, or a winger.

 

[Knies iT]

Feels like there is still another move coming.

Unless it's a Rielly deal, I don't see it.

There's currently a hole at 6RD, but I think that's by design to have Liljegren/Menell transition to the NHL with a longer leash. However at the TDL, after Liljegren has been given development opportunities, i'd like to see them acquire a Bortuzzo/Hakanpaa/etc. (i.e. Engvall trade) for a more veteran heavy blueline going into the playoffs.

Rielly - Brodie
Muzzin - Holl
Dermott - Bortuzzo
[Sandin - Liljegren]

Other than that, I don't see much else they can do. The 1st rounder should be off the table this season.

 

[LaPlante94]

Your just running around making excuses for why Tavares and Nylander haven't produced at the level marner has.

Matthews scored 40 goals which in itself is irrelevant. Look at the evolution in his overall production. He went from being 20th in the league in point and 28th I believe in ppg to top 5 and top 7 in pts and ppg while being with Marner. Not all of that is being attributed to Marner. Matthews is a franchise talent himself and the best talent in leafs history at the moment. Still playing with a top 5 winger makes his production jump and overall play sustainable and likely as he has a dynamic wing option that neither JT(if playing the wing) or Nylander are able to offer to him.

Nylander isn't a proven 30 goal scorer. 17 in 51 is worse than Marner who had a 30 goal pace versus a 27 for Nylander. Nylander is a mid 20s goal player he hasn't shown to be a 30+ guy outside of one outlier season. Marner and Nylander are both heavy playmaker and neither are much of a goal scoring threat. Nylander had a great playoffs but he's been a ghost in multiple series in the past as well and hasn't been on the scoreboard very often either outside of the series vs MTL.

You fault the PP on marner alone which is idiotic considering that the PP was incredibly staked and had several different options being utilized. None of the players were able to figure out what was wrong nor could the coaching staff. Nylander hasn't displayed much prominence in the role marner plays on the PP outside of 2016-2017 and isn't a good fit to touch the puck as often due to his worse vision and lower capability as a cross ice passer. Marner has been part of several strong PP units in his career.

Your making excuses for Tavares poor 2020 season and using his wrist injury but ignoring that Marner outplayed him heavily in a bigger role in 2020 with a more severe and impactful injury. 2020 JT was the worse JT we've seen. He actually bounced back bit this year and demonstrated his ability to serve as an offense catalyst instead of blowing opportunities set by his linemates.

Centers are constantly overrated and people assume due to them having heavy transitional responsibilities that they are the most important player on the line/team. Kucherov for instance is better than anyone in the game outside of 97, panarin is another top 8 player better than a wide variety of elite Centers. Tavares isn't an elite puck transitioner and isn't a overly defensive player. He's good in the offensive zone and creates chances but he doesn't have the ability to play a shutdown role and provide elite offense. He's not Matthews who produces at a very high level while being above average constantly in his own zone.

Marner is relied by Keefe/Babcock the most as he's the most versatile player who can break the game apart at all states. He's an elite PKer, generally a good PP player and an elite EVS player. He generates chances and even better creates tangible chances which end up at a high rate in the net. Refer to his OISH% and see how he has maintained a level the very elite of the league are able to keep.

Marner isn't at that level quite yet but he isn't far off. He simply needs to up his production in the playoffs and he's going to be a perennial top 3 winger in the game and top 10ish player.

Tavares is long past his prime. He's moving closer to dropping out from being a 1C. Next year is probably is final season as a quality 1C before we begin to transition him to wing as his game gets slower and he becomes increasingly more predictable for opposing defenses to defend

Since this probably isn't really gonna go anywhere I guess we'll just agree to disagree.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Unless it's a Rielly deal, I don't see it.

There's currently a hole at 6RD, but I think that's by design to have Liljegren/Menell transition to the NHL with a longer leash. However at the TDL, after Liljegren has been given development opportunities, i'd like to see them acquire a Bortuzzo/Hakanpaa/etc. (i.e. Engvall trade) for a more veteran heavy blueline going into the playoffs.

Rielly - Brodie
Muzzin - Holl
Dermott - Bortuzzo
[Sandin - Liljegren]

Other than that, I don't see much else they can do. The 1st rounder should be off the table this season.

I don't see how Bortuzzo is even a wash for, nevermind an upgrade on, Liljegren/Menell short of them totally sucking.

The Leafs don't have a hole on defense. Maybe a guy like Menell is not a great #7 but then you still have Sandin who should be a good #7 by the time we need him to be one.

I would also not sleep on Alex Biega as a depth RD. He was not great in Detroit the past two years, but Detroit also sucks really bad. He was a solid #6/7 in Vancouver and can probably handle a similar role here if we absolutely need him to (i.e. Menell can't handle that role).

 

[Knies iT]

I don't see how Bortuzzo is even a wash for, nevermind an upgrade on, Liljegren/Menell short of them totally sucking.

The Leafs don't have a hole on defense. Maybe a guy like Menell is not a great #7 but then you still have Sandin who should be a good #7 by the time we need him to be one.

I would also not sleep on Alex Biega as a depth RD. He was not great in Detroit the past two years, but Detroit also sucks really bad. He was a solid #6/7 in Vancouver and can probably handle a similar role here if we absolutely need him to (i.e. Menell can't handle that role).

I’d absolutely rather Bortuzzo over Liljegren or Menell going into a series against Boston/Tampa/Montreal, especially if Sandin is on the left side.

Skill wise, sure, it’s not an upgrade but look at how territorial the final 4 blue lines were. A bottom pair of Sandin-Liljegren/Menell would get abused. Bortuzzo would be great PK insurance (this needs to improve) and easily the hardest D to play against on this blue line with Muzzin being less and less physical.

Biega is decent depth but he cannot play regular minutes on a contender. Unless Liljegren takes a big step and steals that spot outright, it’s something to look at mid-season.

 

[hamzarocks]

Since this probably isn't really gonna go anywhere I guess we'll just agree to disagree.

That's fair, would be happy to be shown wrong this year, if all 4 of our big players play at an elite leve it bodes well for us. Hopefully, this is finally the year we have health and our main guys all-dominating in the openings round of the playoffs.

 

[LaPlante94]

That's fair, would be happy to be shown wrong this year, if all 4 of our big players play at an elite leve it bodes well for us. Hopefully, this is finally the year we have health and our main guys all-dominating in the openings round of the playoffs.

yup, playoff success is all I care about now for this team so hopefully they figure it out this year.

 

[LeafsOHLRangers98]

I’d absolutely rather Bortuzzo over Liljegren or Menell going into a series against Boston/Tampa/Montreal, especially if Sandin is on the left side.

Skill wise, sure, it’s not an upgrade but look at how territorial the final 4 blue lines were. A bottom pair of Sandin-Liljegren/Menell would get abused. Bortuzzo would be great PK insurance (this needs to improve) and easily the hardest D to play against on this blue line with Muzzin being less and less physical.

Biega is decent depth but he cannot play regular minutes on a contender. Unless Liljegren takes a big step and steals that spot outright, it’s something to look at mid-season.

Bortuzzo hits guys but he isn't really good anything else which is a problem.

I would absolutely have Liljegren playing over him as he's also physical, can also play the PK, and he's also good at everything Bortuzzo isn't.

I don't mind adding a depth meathead guy but he's not going to make the difference against a team in the playoffs. Our stars need to be better than theirs.

 

[Knies iT]

Bortuzzo hits guys but he isn't really good anything else which is a problem.

I would absolutely have Liljegren playing over him as he's also physical, can also play the PK, and he's also good at everything Bortuzzo isn't.

I don't mind adding a depth meathead guy but he's not going to make the difference against a team in the playoffs. Our stars need to be better than theirs.

He was good enough to be on a cup winning blue line and perennial playoff team.

Im sorry but Liljegren is not physical. He can PK at the AHL level, we haven’t seen it consistently in the NHL. He projects to be that piece but I dont trust that going in to the playoffs just yet.

 

[LeafsOHLRangers98]

He was good enough to be on a cup winning blue line and perennial playoff team.

Im sorry but Liljegren is not physical. He can PK at the AHL level, we haven’t seen it consistently in the NHL. He projects to be that piece but I dont trust that going in to the playoffs just yet.

Liljegren is physical, he just doesn't go out of his way to wreck guys and sacrifice position to do it. I'd much rather have a guy like that than a guy like Bortuzzo.

You're right about him not doing it at the NHL level yet which is exactly why you get him minutes there and let him learn. With Muzzin and Brodie healthy you can pair him with one of those guys and give him a steady partner on his other side with Holl on the other pair.

At some point these guys have to be thrown into the fire if we want them to be the future of this blue line.

 

[Knies iT]

Liljegren is physical, he just doesn't go out of his way to wreck guys and sacrifice position to do it. I'd much rather have a guy like that than a guy like Bortuzzo.

You're right about him not doing it at the NHL level yet which is exactly why you get him minutes there and let him learn. With Muzzin and Brodie healthy you can pair him with one of those guys and give him a steady partner on his other side with Holl on the other pair.

At some point these guys have to be thrown into the fire if we want them to be the future of this blue line.

He engages physically with body positioning on rub outs defending the rush but rarely imposes himself. That’s fine in a vacuum, but when your 2nd most physical D is Holl it’s not.

He needs the opportunity which is why you make the move at the TDL after he’s been given 1/2 season of reps. Not interested in running a rookie with half a season of PK experience in that role going deep though. Ask Tampa with Foote.

 

[LeafChief]

Playing around with potential lines:

Ritchie - Matthews - Marner
Bunting - Tavares - Nylander
Kase - Kampf - Kerfoot
Mikheyev - Engvall - Spezza
Simmonds

Rielly - Brodie
Muzzin - Liljegren
Dermott/Sandin-Holl

I'd like to see Liljegren/Dermott/Sandin swap in and out. Dermott being able to play both sides helps with that.

A lot of people will not like Ritchie on that top line but let's not forget that we started last season with Thornton/Vesey in those top two LW spots.

 

[LeafSteel]

I honestly don't like Marner with Matthews. They both get too cute and over-pass/over-play together.
I much prefer Marner with JT and Nylander with Matthews.

With Hyman gone, I'd be curious to see Matthews with someone like Ritchie on the LW, along with Matthews becoming a more confident puck hound.

 

[LeafsOHLRangers98]

I honestly don't like Marner with Matthews. They both get too cute and over-pass/over-play together.
I much prefer Marner with JT and Nylander with Matthews.

With Hyman gone, I'd be curious to see Matthews with someone like Ritchie on the LW, along with Matthews becoming a more confident puck hound.

Matthews and Marner were both better without Hyman on their line anyways.

Whoever ends up on LW hopefully has a positive impact on these two lines. When Joe Thornto has the most positive impact on your top line 5 on 5, that's just sad.

Hyman had a bigger impact when he was dropped to the 3rd line with Mik and Engvall.

 

[BertCorbeau]

I honestly don't like Marner with Matthews. They both get too cute and over-pass/over-play together.
I much prefer Marner with JT and Nylander with Matthews.

With Hyman gone, I'd be curious to see Matthews with someone like Ritchie on the LW, along with Matthews becoming a more confident puck hound.

Matthews and Marner have been the highest scoring duo in the league in the last two seasons despite the lack of playoff success .. I doubt those two are switched up.

 

[TheGroceryStick]

I do have a sneaky feeling we trade Rielly...
Always liked the player., but it almost makes sense.

• Expiring
• Core trade (though minor compared to big 4)
• Depending on return...we have options to replace internally.

Rielly + Engvall for Appleton + Dunn

 

[LeafChief]

I do have a sneaky feeling we trade Rielly...
Always liked the player., but it almost makes sense.

• Expiring
• Core trade (though minor compared to big 4)
• Depending on return...we have options to replace internally.

Rielly + Engvall for Appleton + Dunn

That value is beyond putrid.

I agree they should probably trade Rielly but that valuation is just so, so bad.

 

[Knies iT]

If you're trading Rielly you need either a) young, high-upside D replacement, or b) big bodied forward who can play at the top of your lineup.

1st + roster player + quality prospect = the minimum going rate for top pairing D in their prime. He's a rental but you can give permission for contract talks and the market value is insanely inflated for his position right now.

IMO best, most realistic options are LA (Clarke base), VGK (Hague/Tuch base), CGY (Hanifin + base as Gio replacement) off the top of my head.

 

[CupcakeSprinkles]

Bortuzzo talk is funny. This is a trade deadline depth add.. you have to go into the season and see where the pieces fall. Make a couple additions going into the season.

I'm still hoping we add a 3C option like Bozak. I really think this is our biggest issue over any other position. Matthews/Tavares go down it looks ugly still down the middle. We added Kampf and have Kerfoot that can play C... we clearly need another C over a D.

 

[SHANNYPLAN]

Leafs - Panthers
Morgan Rielly for MacKenzie Weegar

Leafs - Any Team
Ilya Mikheyev for Pick/Prospect

Sign: Eric Gudbranson 2 x 950K

Leafs downgrade on Rielly but gain a year with Weegar.

Ritchie - Matthews - Marner
Bunting - Tavares - Nylander
Kerfoot - - - Kampf - - - Kase
Gabriel - Spezza - Simmonds
OR (health dependant)
Kerfoot - Kampf - Simmonds
Engvall - - Spezza - - Gabriel

Brodie - Weegar
Muzzin - - - Holl
Sandin - Gudbranson

 

[Maplebeasts]

Leafs - Panthers
Morgan Rielly for MacKenzie Weegar

Leafs - Any Team
Ilya Mikheyev for Pick/Prospect

Sign: Eric Gudbranson 2 x 950K

Leafs downgrade on Rielly but gain a year with Weegar.

Ritchie - Matthews - Marner
Bunting - Tavares - Nylander
Kerfoot - - - Kampf - - - Kase
Gabriel - Spezza - Simmonds
OR (health dependant)
Kerfoot - Kampf - Simmonds
Engvall - - Spezza - - Gabriel

Brodie - Weegar
Muzzin - - - Holl
Sandin - Gudbranson

Sign Eric Gudbranson to not only stink up the joint but to block Liljegren from the roster? No thank you.

 

[WTFMAN99]

Deleted.

 

[TheGroceryStick]

That value is beyond putrid.

I agree they should probably trade Rielly but that valuation is just so, so bad.

Both Appleton and Dunn are more than serviceable players and would be useful on this team....unless you want a late first and meh prospect- what are we expecting in a Rielly deal?

Not saying my valuation is spot on or even good... just curious

 

[Jozay]

Id be shocked if they trade Rielly at this point.