GDT: Trade and Free Agency Thread - Training camp approaches

[pspot]

Don't match. Make a trade for a C

 

[Nooodles]

Love the offer sheet. Giant middle finger back. Watch them match KK gets 30 points next year and they have to give him 6.1

Yeah and what if they dont match? You have to do the same while losing two picks including a 1st rounder.

Stupid move by the Canes.

 

[Isaac Nootin]

Love how this deal perfectly put the screws to the Habs. No matter what, Bergevin comes out looking like a complete donkey.

Match and you're paying 6.1 million for a 3 C. Not to mention it completely ruins their internal cap. You think Suzuki, Caulfield etc. will accept less than 6.1 when they're both far superior players?

Let him walk and you've turned the #3 overall into a late 1st and a 3rd with zero center depth to speak of.

It's enjoyable to watch this unfold.

 

[dubplatepressure]

Love how this deal perfectly put the screws to the Habs. No matter what, Bergevin comes out looking like a complete donkey.

Match and you're paying 6.1 million for a 3 C. Not to mention it completely ruins their internal cap. You think Suzuki, Caulfield etc. will accept less than 6.1 when they're both far superior players?

Let him walk and you've turned the #3 overall into a late 1st and a 3rd with zero center depth to speak of.

It's enjoyable to watch this unfold.

They'll just match. I don't think other players are going to turn around and try and leverage this situation to their favor. It's already clearly an outlier. If KK underperforms against the $6.1M this year it just becomes more so.

 

[CupcakeSprinkles]

I don't think they match KK at 6.1. He's going to be making that for the next 5 years at a minimum else the Team will have to consider not qualifying him / walking into free agency..

 

[ToneDog]

Love how this deal perfectly put the screws to the Habs. No matter what, Bergevin comes out looking like a complete donkey.

Match and you're paying 6.1 million for a 3 C. Not to mention it completely ruins their internal cap. You think Suzuki, Caulfield etc. will accept less than 6.1 when they're both far superior players?

Let him walk and you've turned the #3 overall into a late 1st and a 3rd with zero center depth to speak of.

It's enjoyable to watch this unfold.

They'll just match. I don't think other players are going to turn around and try and leverage this situation to their favor. It's already clearly an outlier. If KK underperforms against the $6.1M this year it just becomes more so.

If you match then you have to qualify him next year at an even higher number and if you don't he walks for free. I'd have or would rather try to work out a better deal than match. Might be too late for Bergevin. With Daneault leaving Bergevin has completely blown it.

 

[Buds17]

I figure the Habs should match the offer sheet. Unless of course they think that 1st could somehow end up in the draft lottery (despite a competitive division and conference, this probably doesn't have favourable enough odds to happen without the Canes goaltending situation being hit hard by injury). Although prices may go up a bit, I don't imagine this sets off a run of offer sheets to really put contract comparisons out of whack. Will be interesting to see the AAV on his next contract though, not to mention the identity of the team that will be offering it.

 

[dubplatepressure]

If you match then you have to qualify him next year at an even higher number and if you don't he walks for free. I'd have or would rather try to work out a better deal than match. Might be too late for Bergevin. With Daneault leaving Bergevin has completely blown it.

I don't disagree, but if they can put off the bad decisioning for another season they will.

 

[fahad203]

What I love about this move is Carolina's pushback and a message out to the league

This is not the harsest response, not like Burke or Vancouver but as push back is a pushback

Imagine Aho, he must feel like he's really valued and wanted by the team, when your team makes this type of statement

We wouldn't do that. We are too nice

 

[ToneDog]

I don't disagree, but if they can put off the bad decisioning for another season they will.

He is almost guaranteed to walk next year unless the Habs overpay, again. I'd take the picks and look for a C. They can probably get Kerfoot relatively cheap if the Leafs want the cap space and are open to moving him within the division. Wouldn't it be something if they acquired Nazem ?? Yikes.

 

[VanW27]

Yeah and what if they dont match? You have to do the same while losing two picks including a 1st rounder.

Stupid move by the Canes.

Carolina is a contender with cap space, if Habs dont match they treat it as a full season rental. Young 3C with upside, we paid basically the same price (1st and 4th vs 1st and 3rd) for 11 total games, regular season and playoffs combined, from an old broken down 3rd liner.

 

[Legion34]

If I’m Montreal I’m letting him go and trying to trade those picks for Dvorak

 

[ToneDog]

Carolina is a contender with cap space, if Habs dont match they treat it as a full season rental. Young 3C with upside, we paid basically the same price (1st and 4th vs 1st and 3rd) for 11 total games, regular season and playoffs combined, from an old broken down 3rd liner.

I believe it was 2 4ths. Talk about a trade that blew up in Dubas' face. First Kadri and then Foligno. Wonder what it will be this year.

 

[Mickey Marner]

The only reason for Bargain Bin to match would be sunk cost fallacy. While humourous, the Canes don't really gain anything from this. They'll likely just end up overpaying for one year of an overpaid Kotkaniemi and then the jokes on them really. Had they stuck to the max of the 2nd round pick compensation tier (4.11 AAV), Kotkaniemi would still be overpaid and in the unlikely scenario Montreal doesn't match, he wouldn't hamstring the Canes from making moves they actually should make.

 

[LeafChief]

I believe it was 2 4ths. Talk about a trade that blew up in Dubas' face. First Kadri and then Foligno. Wonder what it will be this year.

Maybe the Muzzin trade. Or signing Brodie. Or the trade he orchestrated that brought Hyman here in the first place. Maybe it will be the Jack Campbell trade. Or the trade where he got extra picks to draft Niemala and Hirvonen for the pick that was used on Kleven.

I wonder what it will be this year.

 

[pspot]

Contract is stupid but c depth would be unreal
Aho, trochek, Staal , kk
Nice mix of size, skill, shutdown

Probably move aho to wing as kk develops

 

[CupcakeSprinkles]

Maybe the Muzzin trade. Or signing Brodie. Or the trade he orchestrated that brought Hyman here in the first place. Maybe it will be the Jack Campbell trade. Or the trade where he got extra picks to draft Niemala and Hirvonen for the pick that was used on Kleven.

I wonder what it will be this year.

The Kadri deal always faces funny scrutiny with little context by some posters.. Brodie + Jankowski was the rumored deal for Kadri (he rejected trade to CGY). We ended up getting Barrie + Kerfoot then let Barrie walk and signed Brodie. It looks like we ended up getting the best possible mix of Brodie + Kerfoot in the end.

Foligno was a deadline deal.. people need to stop the tears.

 

[ToneDog]

Maybe the Muzzin trade. Or signing Brodie. Or the trade he orchestrated that brought Hyman here in the first place. Maybe it will be the Jack Campbell trade. Or the trade where he got extra picks to draft Niemala and Hirvonen for the pick that was used on Kleven.

I wonder what it will be this year.

There are always two sides to every coin. I was looking at one side while you rightfully gave examples of the other side. Would be great if Dubas could get on the right side of another trade like the Soup or Kappy deals. The Muzzin trade was probably fair for both teams. Acquiring picks is a different coin. That involves more hitting on picks rather than acquiring them for me. The Kapanen deal will look even better if Dubas hit on Amirov.

 

[nuck]

The Kadri deal always faces funny scrutiny with little context by some posters.. Brodie + Jankowski was the rumored deal for Kadri (he rejected trade to CGY). We ended up getting Barrie + Kerfoot then let Barrie walk and signed Brodie. It looks like we ended up getting the best possible mix of Brodie + Kerfoot in the end.

Foligno was a deadline deal.. people need to stop the tears.

Except they had Barrie instead of Brodie for the play-in series. Brodie was a free agent and not part of the return and Kadri was worth way more than Kerf one for one. We can't spin it into a good return because of a later UFA signing. I agree about Foligno for sure. Rentals are a part of the business and they will always look bad unless a team goes all the way.

 

[LeafChief]

The Kadri deal always faces funny scrutiny with little context by some posters.. Brodie + Jankowski was the rumored deal for Kadri (he rejected trade to CGY). We ended up getting Barrie + Kerfoot then let Barrie walk and signed Brodie. It looks like we ended up getting the best possible mix of Brodie + Kerfoot in the end.

Foligno was a deadline deal.. people need to stop the tears.

There are always two sides to every coin. I was looking at one side while you rightfully gave examples of the other side. Would be great if Dubas could get on the right side of another trade like the Soup or Kappy deals. The Muzzin trade was probably fair for both teams. Acquiring picks is a different coin. That involves more hitting on picks rather than acquiring them for me. The Kapanen deal will look even better if Dubas hit on Amirov.

Like any GM, Dubas has made good and bad deals.

It's frustrating that there are groups of people on this website that only focus on the bad deals and there are also groups of people that only focus on the good deals.

Each deal can be looked at individually. The fact that some of his deals have been poor doesn't warrant the snark of some of the petulant posters around here.

 

[ToneDog]

Like any GM, Dubas has made good and bad deals.

It's frustrating that there are groups of people on this website that only focus on the bad deals and there are also groups of people that only focus on the good deals.

Each deal can be looked at individually. The fact that some of his deals have been poor doesn't warrant the snark of some of the petulant posters around here.

Took me a long time to get over the Kessel for 2 firsts and a second or Kordic for Courtnall. Not happy with the Kadri or Foligno trades but they pail in comparison to those two deals. Although we lost the trades they don't bother me that much.

 

[ToneDog]

Except they had Barrie instead of Brodie for the play-in series. Brodie was a free agent and not part of the return and Kadri was worth way more than Kerf one for one. We can't spin it into a good return because of a later UFA signing. I agree about Foligno for sure. Rentals are a part of the business and they will always look bad unless a team goes all the way.

I didn't mind the Foligno trade at the time. The problem is that he got hurt and the team failed to get by the Habs. If he was damaged goods, that would be bad. Everything seemed to go wrong with our deadline acquisitions. At some point, lady luck needs to stop pissing on us.

 

[ULF_55]

I think Kotkaniemi is worth the risk for the 'Canes.

Habs would have to do something to fit him in and then Weber.

If Kotkaniemi takes the next step this year, 'Canes lock him up long term next year.

 

[CupcakeSprinkles]

Except they had Barrie instead of Brodie for the play-in series. Brodie was a free agent and not part of the return and Kadri was worth way more than Kerf one for one. We can't spin it into a good return because of a later UFA signing. I agree about Foligno for sure. Rentals are a part of the business and they will always look bad unless a team goes all the way.

LOL the failed logic here is the assumption that spending cash is NOT asset. The Leafs are a playoff team and cap space is the form of circulation to make it happen. For instance, if we were rebuilding the logic is different as cap is usually abundant and assets are sparce. In this case, cap is an asset and we freed up Barrie for Brodie. Economics 101 - opportunity cost of signing Barrie impedes Brodie move.

The best combination was selected.

 

[CupcakeSprinkles]

Like any GM, Dubas has made good and bad deals.

It's frustrating that there are groups of people on this website that only focus on the bad deals and there are also groups of people that only focus on the good deals.

Each deal can be looked at individually. The fact that some of his deals have been poor doesn't warrant the snark of some of the petulant posters around here.

Deals are looked at in the part of a bigger picture. Breaking down deals individually is low IQ logic. Players acquired do not always fit the playing style of the team, coach etc. Barrie was swapped for Brodie quickly (1 season) as opposed to making the trade and signing long-term.

If the logic was to "win" or "hold value" with individual trades then Barrie would of been re-signed. "OMG we traded Kadri for Barrie + Kerfoot.. we can't lose that deal!". Realistically, Barrie walking and Brodie coming in gave us a different opportunity to solidify the back-end.

Deals are done in conjunction and cannot be measured individually.. especially non-core players. If it was Matthews, Marner, Nylader, Rielly.. different story.