Trade and Free Agency Thread - 2022 - Off-season

[stickty111]

I should have read the Siegel article he wrote today on Liljegren's extenstion and Sandin more clearly. Some nice tidbits there

Says Leafs and Sandin's camp continue to talk and discussions will intensify near the draft. A shift to the right side has been discussed as Leafs seem keen on bringing Muzzin back. There is uncertinaty where he will fit.

CJ also said on Overdrive the sides aren't close but nobody is worried yet.

 

[I am Canadian]

My wishlist for this offseason.. Jordan Greenway, Carson Soucy, David Perron

 

[Stephen]

I should have read the Siegel article he wrote today on Liljegren's extenstion and Sandin more clearly. Some nice tidbits there

Says Leafs and Sandin's camp continue to talk and discussions will intensify near the draft. A shift to the right side has been discussed as Leafs seem keen on bringing Muzzin back. There is uncertinaty where he will fit.

CJ also said on Overdrive the sides aren't close but nobody is worried yet.

Having a hard time understanding how a 22 year old defenseman with 88 career games and 28 points could have any form of leverage in negotiations that a 23 year old defenseman with 74 career games and 24 points wouldn't. Give him the exact same contract as Liljegren, come to camp and earn a spot. Simple.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Not going to lie, I don't know much about our prospects/young ahlers, beside Robertson, Steeves, Niemela and Knies, but from the sounds of it, Dubas is looking to make our 4th line/ depth out of younger, cheaper, forwards from the AHL and have competiton for it,

I think Spezza retiring instead of gifting him a 4th line role was a indicator of that. We shouldn't be dipping into free agency every year trying to plug every single hole in the lineup, at some point you need to be able to have a standout player that can make the team and provide something for your depth lines.

Tampa has done it with Ross Colton and Colorado has done it with Logan O'connor, these are the types of players Toronto has yet to develop.

Trevor Moore, Pierre Engvall, Andreas Johnsson, Kasperi Kapanen, Dmytro Timashov...

We have dried up a bit due to some poor Hunter drafts, and some odd obsession with adding low skill vets and grit guys to fill out the bottom of the lineup over the past few years, but we are now developing legit prospects who can fill those roles.

Having a hard time understanding how a 22 year old defenseman with 88 career games and 28 points could have any form of leverage in negotiations that a 23 year old defenseman with 74 career games and 24 points wouldn't. Give him the exact same contract as Liljegren, come to camp and earn a spot. Simple.

I am guessing it has to do with Sandin not having a clearly defined role next year?

Could also be that the Leafs don't think Sandin is worth what they are paying Liljegren. Liljegren has looked and played better. Sandin has had injuries and may be closer to what they handed Dermott after his ELC, which was effectively a one-year QO.

 

[Stephen]

Trevor Moore, Pierre Engvall, Andreas Johnsson, Kasperi Kapanen, Dmytro Timashov...

We have dried up a bit due to some poor Hunter drafts, and some odd obsession with adding low skill vets and grit guys to fill out the bottom of the lineup over the past few years, but we are now developing legit prospects who can fill those roles.



I am guessing it has to do with Sandin not having a clearly defined role next year?

Sure, but didn't Travis Dermott have the same issue and have to sign, come to camp and play for a spot? No one can really say what his role is until he shows what he can do in camp...

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Sure, but didn't Travis Dermott have the same issue and have to sign, come to camp and play for a spot? No one can really say what his role is until he shows what he can do in camp...

Yeah, I think like my edit said, maybe the Leafs think he is closer to Dermott and want him on that contract, while Sandin still thinks he is more than he is (which has been a common theme for years now) and he may even be asking for more than Liljegren despite looking worse than him.

 

[Gabriel426]

Trevor Moore, Pierre Engvall, Andreas Johnsson, Kasperi Kapanen, Dmytro Timashov...

We have dried up a bit due to some poor Hunter drafts, and some odd obsession with adding low skill vets and grit guys to fill out the bottom of the lineup over the past few years, but we are now developing legit prospects who can fill those roles.



I am guessing it has to do with Sandin not having a clearly defined role next year?

Could also be that the Leafs don't think Sandin is worth what they are paying Liljegren. Liljegren has looked and played better. Sandin has had injuries and may be closer to what they handed Dermott after his ELC, which was effectively a one-year QO.

What clearly defined role do Sandin wants? Guarantee top 4 mins with PP time? Shelter bottom mins with more Ozone starts?
Honestly, I think Sandin and his camp sees three and even four(TJ) ahead of Sandin in the current lineup and asked if Sandin will even have a chance to crack the top 6, like are the Leafs planning to trade Muz or would Gio be playing on the right side…
Not sure what Sandin wants but he needs to earn it.

 

[Dreakmur]

What clearly defined role do Sandin wants? Guarantee top 4 mins with PP time? Shelter bottom mins with more Ozone starts?
Honestly, I think Sandin and his camp sees three and even four(TJ) ahead of Sandin in the current lineup and asked if Sandin will even have a chance to crack the top 6, like are the Leafs planning to trade Muz or would Gio be playing on the right side…
Not sure what Sandin wants but he needs to earn it.

He wants a top-6 role instead of a seat in the press box. I can't even blame him. Give him a change here..... or move him and give him a chance elsewhere.

 

[Gabriel426]

He wants a top-6 role instead of a seat in the press box. I can't even blame him. Give him a change here..... or move him and give him a chance elsewhere.

I don’t think Sandin is in a position to ask or demand anything from the Leafs.

He needs to earn his spot on the team.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

What clearly defined role do Sandin wants? Guarantee top 4 mins with PP time? Shelter bottom mins with more Ozone starts?
Honestly, I think Sandin and his camp sees three and even four(TJ) ahead of Sandin in the current lineup and asked if Sandin will even have a chance to crack the top 6, like are the Leafs planning to trade Muz or would Gio be playing on the right side…
Not sure what Sandin wants but he needs to earn it.

Don't ask me, but I am sure he wants to have some kind of regular playing time.

He does seem to want things he hasn't earned, but he should be getting regular playing time.

 

[Dreakmur]

I don’t think Sandin is in a position to ask or demand anything from the Leafs.

As an RFA, that’s his exact position…. Ask something from the leafs…

He needs to earn his spot on the team.

He probably thinks he has. He’s certainly been better than Justin Holl.

Dubas hasn’t done a very good job of allowing our young guys to earn spots in the lineup. I suppose that’s a result of rushing into win-now mode before we should have. Now we’re in these must win seasons year after year, so there’s no room for growing pains.

 

[thusk]

From what I remember Gibson always has very good first half of the seasons. I think he just gets worn out playing behind that Anaheim team and his numbers just fall off a cliff.

Yep, ducks was already a trash team, just imagine when you lost 2 of your 3 NHL level dman who missed half of ducks game last 3 season

But nah Gibson sucks he unable to carry an AHL caliber D in NHL. Kind of things, a goalie like Price was unable to do when they lost weber for an injury 4 years ago and played in front of the same caliber of team... but sure its not the same thing, Price is an elite G and Gibson just sucks

I didn’t watch. I appreciate the insight. Doesn’t change the fact that Gibson has been declining and has 5 years left.

Did you watch stats when Manson and lindholm was healthy and game they was out?

 

[Leafed]

Sandin is a tradeable asset in my opinion. Rielly is signed for 8 more years and will take most of the PP opportunities and offensive zone starts. Short-term there are three defencemen ahead of him on the left. Limited in size and speed, what niche then can Sandin serve on the backend even long-term?

Management understands the need for size and grit evidenced by the acquisition and playoff usage of Lybushkin. I'll suggest Josh Manson for recency bias and because he is a UFA, though his value will likely be inflated because of his role on the Avs.

Rielly - Manson
Muzzin - Brodie
Gio - Liljegren

Something like that, with Lilly taking some OZ starts with Rielly would be to me the most balanced and playoff-ready our defence has been. Manson will probably command >4m so ideally you'd find someone who didn't just win a cup.

Assets moved: Sandin, Holl

Also, I seem to be in the minority but I would prioritize keeping Campbell over most goalie options suggested, maybe other than Varlamov. He's clearly liked in the dressing room and other than a blip mid-season where he was most likely playing injured for some of it, he's been an above-average goaltender for us, better than all other options. I hope all this smoke in the media is the Leafs playing hardball in negotiations. Kuemper just won the cup with a save percentage of .902

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Sandin is a tradeable asset in my opinion. Rielly is signed for 8 more years and will take most of the PP opportunities and offensive zone starts. Short-term there are three defencemen ahead of him on the left. Limited in size and speed, what niche then can Sandin serve on the backend even long-term?

Management understands the need for size and grit evidenced by the acquisition and playoff usage of Lybushkin. I'll suggest Josh Manson for recency bias and because he is a UFA, though his value will likely be inflated because of his role on the Avs.

Rielly - Manson
Muzzin - Brodie
Gio - Liljegren

Something like that, with Lilly taking some OZ starts with Rielly would be to me the most balanced and playoff-ready our defence has been. Manson will probably command >4m so ideally you'd find someone who didn't just win a cup.

Assets moved: Sandin, Holl

Also, I seem to be in the minority but I would prioritize keeping Campbell over most goalie options suggested, maybe other than Varlamov. He's clearly liked in the dressing room and other than a blip mid-season where he was most likely playing injured for some of it, he's been an above-average goaltender for us, better than all other options. I hope all this smoke in the media is the Leafs playing hardball in negotiations. Kuemper just won the cup with a save percentage of .902

He wasn't hurt for 4 straight months

 

[Fogelhund]

Sandin is a tradeable asset in my opinion. Rielly is signed for 8 more years and will take most of the PP opportunities and offensive zone starts. Short-term there are three defencemen ahead of him on the left. Limited in size and speed, what niche then can Sandin serve on the backend even long-term?

Management understands the need for size and grit evidenced by the acquisition and playoff usage of Lybushkin. I'll suggest Josh Manson for recency bias and because he is a UFA, though his value will likely be inflated because of his role on the Avs.

Rielly - Manson
Muzzin - Brodie
Gio - Liljegren

Something like that, with Lilly taking some OZ starts with Rielly would be to me the most balanced and playoff-ready our defence has been. Manson will probably command >4m so ideally you'd find someone who didn't just win a cup.

Assets moved: Sandin, Holl

Also, I seem to be in the minority but I would prioritize keeping Campbell over most goalie options suggested, maybe other than Varlamov. He's clearly liked in the dressing room and other than a blip mid-season where he was most likely playing injured for some of it, he's been an above-average goaltender for us, better than all other options. I hope all this smoke in the media is the Leafs playing hardball in negotiations. Kuemper just won the cup with a save percentage of .902

Josh Manson played as a #5 D for Avalanche... and he did an ok job with that role. If you can play Manson on your third pairing, you will do pretty well. If you put him on your first pairing, and pay him $4 mil + for it, you've got problems.

 

[thusk]

Josh Manson played as a #5 D for Avalanche... and he did an ok job with that role. If you can play Manson on your third pairing, you will do pretty well. If you put him on your first pairing, and pay him $4 mil + for it, you've got problems.

Manson was 4th in colorado

Byram just saw his ice time raised when Girard get injured

 

[Fogelhund]

Maple Leafs & Blackhawks Have Pieces to Produce Offseason Blockbuster - The Hockey Writers Latest News, Analysis & More

With the Maple Leafs and Blackhawks trending in different directions, they could be the perfect trade partners for an offseason blockbuster.

thehockeywriters.com

This would be a bad trade, even by HF standards.

DeBrincat, Dach, Murphy (Some salary withheld) for Muzzin, Mrazek and 1st.

I mean, ya, of course as Leafs fans we do it.

 

[TMLAM34]

Maple Leafs & Blackhawks Have Pieces to Produce Offseason Blockbuster - The Hockey Writers Latest News, Analysis & More

With the Maple Leafs and Blackhawks trending in different directions, they could be the perfect trade partners for an offseason blockbuster.

thehockeywriters.com

This would be a bad trade, even by HF standards.

DeBrincat, Dach, Murphy (Some salary withheld) for Muzzin, Mrazek and 1st.

I mean, ya, of course as Leafs fans we do it.

Zero percent chance Chicago does that. I’d love it though.

 

[Leaffan1991]

The 2022-2023 Kid Line
McMann-Douglas-Anderson

1. A big-bodied all-around forward that has good offensive instincts and excellent positional awareness during unfolding plays. Plays a power game and drives the net hard. Fluid skater that has room to improve near the top of his acceleration to become more explosive. His maturity, character, and willingness to do what it takes to win is embodied by his humility in taking the time to improve upon and learn all aspects of multiple roles. Explosive shot release and proficient puckhandling ability. Huge potential as an effective two-way forward with skill. [EP]

2. Big, intimidating center who uses his size as an asset. An agile skater for his size who is often the hardest worker on the ice. Has potential to fill a fourth line role in the NHL.

3. The energetic forward can win his share of puck battles. Has a good shot and can do some of the grunt work on a line with more talented players. At 5’11”, he is not the biggest forward and will have to get stronger to earn a regular role in the NHL.

Wouldn't mind this. Gives us a chance to see if they will ever be good enough for the NHL

 

[Fogelhund]

Manson was 4th in colorado

Byram just saw his ice time raised when Girard get injured

4/5 I mean at the end of the day, he's not a top pairing guy... and he isn't as physical as he once was either.

 

[Smif]

I feel like there might actually be a market for Mrazek. Counting the teams that need a goalie and the goalies available, it seems like there's going to be a shortage

 

[Legion34]

I could see a mrazek. Sandin 1 for Murphy and dach.

I don’t see muzz waiving for a rebuild. I could see trading sandin. For A 2c prospect.

 

[Americanadian]

The 2022-2023 Kid Line
McMann-Douglas-Anderson

1. A big-bodied all-around forward that has good offensive instincts and excellent positional awareness during unfolding plays. Plays a power game and drives the net hard. Fluid skater that has room to improve near the top of his acceleration to become more explosive. His maturity, character, and willingness to do what it takes to win is embodied by his humility in taking the time to improve upon and learn all aspects of multiple roles. Explosive shot release and proficient puckhandling ability. Huge potential as an effective two-way forward with skill. [EP]

2. Big, intimidating center who uses his size as an asset. An agile skater for his size who is often the hardest worker on the ice. Has potential to fill a fourth line role in the NHL.

3. The energetic forward can win his share of puck battles. Has a good shot and can do some of the grunt work on a line with more talented players. At 5’11”, he is not the biggest forward and will have to get stronger to earn a regular role in the NHL.

I would love if the Leafs rolled something like this out.

I should have read the Siegel article

Almost never worth the click.

 

[Fogelhund]

The 2022-2023 Kid Line
McMann-Douglas-Anderson

1. A big-bodied all-around forward that has good offensive instincts and excellent positional awareness during unfolding plays. Plays a power game and drives the net hard. Fluid skater that has room to improve near the top of his acceleration to become more explosive. His maturity, character, and willingness to do what it takes to win is embodied by his humility in taking the time to improve upon and learn all aspects of multiple roles. Explosive shot release and proficient puckhandling ability. Huge potential as an effective two-way forward with skill. [EP]

2. Big, intimidating center who uses his size as an asset. An agile skater for his size who is often the hardest worker on the ice. Has potential to fill a fourth line role in the NHL.

3. The energetic forward can win his share of puck battles. Has a good shot and can do some of the grunt work on a line with more talented players. At 5’11”, he is not the biggest forward and will have to get stronger to earn a regular role in the NHL.

Maybe the 2023/24 line... I don't think Douglas is NHL read yet, but he will be at some point.

I like the idea of a line like this though.

 

[ULF_55]

McMann is a darkhorse, but that is not going to be a good enough line for the NHL at this juncture. Anderson is the best guy on that line, Douglas still needs another year or two in the AHL, and McMann has had a good year but it was only one good year; the year before, he wasn't even AHL caliber. We will need to see what he can bring in training camp before committing to him in any real way.

Obviously, a real stretch, however I think they have enough talent to carry at least a couple for 7 minutes a night as they get used to the NHL game.

By the scouting reports they can all skate, which for an apprenticeship line is what I'd be looking for along with intangibles. They have others, and I think they have to give them time to see what they have and the ones I listed aren't actually kids.

They might need time in the AHL, but then again maybe they don't to play the 4th. line.

I don't believe they will be successful without utilizing all their assets, unless they can get NHLer who aren't spent on minimum contracts. Spezza for example still had his wheels, but he was done.