Trade and Free Agency Thread - 2021/22 - Post Deadline

[Dreakmur]

Comparing Giordano to Perry/Simmonds/Thornton level players is a whiff in itself.

I was specifically referring to leadership. All those guys are or were expected to bring leadership.

 

[TMLAM34]

That'd be an excellent deal for us imo, and not too bad for Jersey either.

Couple physical bottom six players for a player who would slide into their top six immediately. Only problem potentially is the fact that Kerfoot is a pending UFA but I wouldn’t be opposed to adding a conditional 2nd rounder in 2024 if Kerfoot doesn’t re-sign.

 

[Legion34]

About 5 weeks to the deadline and there are no talks with jack.

I think that could mean we have a trade lined up? I mean why wouldn’t you be talking at this point?

 

[Dreakmur]

Don’t even know if he’s available. By the sounds of it Scheifele is all but gone but I’m not sure if they are rebuilding or re-tooling.

Scheifele is one of the few players that make sense in a Nylander trade.

If Hellebuyck became available that’s one of the few goalies I’d pony up for.

For sure.

I'm not sure they have the roster to win now and they have a lot to turn over.

I don't think it will take that much for Helleybuck. He's still a good goaltender, but you've got 3 good years left in him.

Three years of Vezina-calibre goaltending is worth a lot.

 

[Brobust]

Scheifele is one of the few players that make sense in a Nylander trade.



For sure.



Three years of Vezina-calibre goaltending is worth a lot.

Nylander is perceived as a lazy prima donna while Schiefele actually is one. That'll help the team.

Then there's also the fact that Schiefele so bad defensively that he makes Nylander look good.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Honestly not even really revisionist. Perry was coming off a pretty decent playoff run with Dallas and Simmonds looked just as done then as he does now.


Don’t even know if he’s available. By the sounds of it Scheifele is all but gone but I’m not sure if they are rebuilding or re-tooling.

If Hellebuyck became available that’s one of the few goalies I’d pony up for.

I feel like Perry gets a little bit overrated too though. He provides a bit of sandpaper but he is more of a disturber than a true physical force. His play at ES, for the most part, is underwhelming even though he had a nice resurgence with Tampa in the regular season. His true value, at least in the playoffs, comes from being a net front guy on the PP.

I feel like he is almost like another Spezza, except you can exchange faceoff value for sandpaper and Spezza was more of a shooting threat than a net front threat on the PP, and he is a few years younger than Spezza.

Simmonds I feel like just lost his focus and his passion. I don't know if it is his body, but there are a lot of times when it looks like he has a lot in the tank (he does play a taxing style but he was only 31 when we brought him in), and other times when he just looks like he could care less about playing beyond jawing with an opponent or dropping the gloves. Perry still loves jawing with the opponent, but he also looks like he still gives a crap about playing the game too.

At this point, we don't have room for a guy who is not interested in being useful. We have too many young and hungry players ready for a chance in his spot, so I imagine Dubas will try to find him a decent spot elsewhere (he also has a 10-team NTC) or will just put him on waivers and let him play out his final year bouncing between the Leafs and the Marlies if he is not claimed. I do imagine there will be some team that is willing to throw a late round pick at him to be a veteran at the bottom of their lineup though; especially if they don't think he can get to them on waivers.

 

[showtime8]

Three years of Vezina-calibre goaltending is worth a lot.

I think this is the tough spot that you have as an organization because you're paying for what he's already accomplished and not sure what you'll get moving forward.

You have 2 years with him to carry the mail and then you're essentially forcing yourself into a re-signing at age 31 or 32.

 

[Gabriel426]

If Helly is available, anyone is on the table beside AM and Reilly.
Is the Jets really rebuilding or just retooling. Bc rebuilding means Helly will be available but retooling means they will just trade a core piece like Connors or Ehlers.

 

[Americanadian]

Today's armchair GM:

Trades:
Engvall to ARI for TOR 2023 3rd
Muzzin+Kerfoot to ANA for Henrique+Stolarz
Nylander+Anderson to LAK for Roy+Lemieux
Malgin to NJ for Bastian
Mrazek to CHI for Connolly
Offer sheet Mangiapane 6Mx5 (2023 1st+3rd)
Holl to CAR for 2023 3rd
Signings:
Offer sheet Mangiapane 6Mx5
Sign Rodrigues 2.5Mx4
Sign Marchment 4.5Mx4
Sign Comrie 2Mx3
Sign Lemieux 1.65X2
Sign Sandin 1.25Mx1
Sign Liljegren 1.5Mx2
Buyout Connolly -1.16Mx2

Bunting-Matthews-Marner
Mangiapane-Tavares-Marchment
Steeves-Henrique-Rodrigues
Lemieux-Kampf-Bastian
Holmberg

Rielly-Brodie
Sandin-Roy
Giordano-Liljegren

Stolarz
Comrie

82.484M

If the goaltending is awful at the deadline they can unload a package of Henrique/Robertson/Niemela etc. for Hellebuyck

 

[TMLAM34]

I wonder what the cost would be for Hellebuyck. Definitely wouldn’t be cheap. I would think it starts with a 1st + Sandin.

 

[Apex Predator]

Exactly. Unless they specifically have someone in mind you’d think they’d for sure still be in constant talks with Campbell, as no other FA option (except maybe Kuemper) is clearly better than Jack.

I’d be thrilled with Hellebuyck, he’s my #1 in a dream scenario.

I prefer Hellebuyk over Gibson never thought he might be a possible option.

 

[TMLAM34]

Today's armchair GM:

Trades:
Engvall to ARI for TOR 2023 3rd
Muzzin+Kerfoot to ANA for Henrique+Stolarz
Nylander+Anderson to LAK for Roy+Lemieux
Malgin to NJ for Bastian
Mrazek to CHI for Connolly
Offer sheet Mangiapane 6Mx5 (2023 1st+3rd)
Holl to CAR for 2023 3rd
Signings:
Offer sheet Mangiapane 6Mx5
Sign Rodrigues 2.5Mx4
Sign Marchment 4.5Mx4
Sign Comrie 2Mx3
Sign Lemieux 1.65X2
Sign Sandin 1.25Mx1
Sign Liljegren 1.5Mx2
Buyout Connolly -1.16Mx2

Bunting-Matthews-Marner
Mangiapane-Tavares-Marchment
Steeves-Henrique-Rodrigues
Lemieux-Kampf-Bastian
Holmberg

Rielly-Brodie
Sandin-Roy
Giordano-Liljegren

Stolarz
Comrie

82.484M

Nylander for Roy and Lemieux? Jesus….

 

[Gabriel426]

I think this is the tough spot that you have as an organization because you're paying for what he's already accomplished and not sure what you'll get moving forward.

You have 2 years with him to carry the mail and then you're essentially forcing yourself into a re-signing at age 31 or 32.

But that’s pretty much applies to all players.

Nylander is perceived as a lazy prima donna while Schiefele actually is one. That'll help the team.

Then there's also the fact that Schiefele so bad defensively that he makes Nylander look good.

Exactly. Prior to the North Division, I think Sche is really good but after the North Division where i get to watch him more, he is by far one of the laziest 1C in the league. Wheeler did all the heavy lifting for him.

 

[Americanadian]

Nylander for Roy and Lemieux? Jesus….

Roy was a top pair RH defenseman last year for a playoff team and he's signed for the same term as Nylander but 3.8M cheaper. Half the value is in the player, half the value is in the cap space saved. In my mind all these trades don't favor Toronto.

 

[Pinto]

I feel like Perry gets a little bit overrated too though. He provides a bit of sandpaper but he is more of a disturber than a true physical force. His play at ES, for the most part, is underwhelming even though he had a nice resurgence with Tampa in the regular season. His true value, at least in the playoffs, comes from being a net front guy on the PP.

I feel like he is almost like another Spezza, except you can exchange faceoff value for sandpaper and Spezza was more of a shooting threat than a net front threat on the PP, and he is a few years younger than Spezza.

Simmonds I feel like just lost his focus and his passion. I don't know if it is his body, but there are a lot of times when it looks like he has a lot in the tank (he does play a taxing style but he was only 31 when we brought him in), and other times when he just looks like he could care less about playing beyond jawing with an opponent or dropping the gloves. Perry still loves jawing with the opponent, but he also looks like he still gives a crap about playing the game too.

At this point, we don't have room for a guy who is not interested in being useful. We have too many young and hungry players ready for a chance in his spot, so I imagine Dubas will try to find him a decent spot elsewhere (he also has a 10-team NTC) or will just put him on waivers and let him play out his final year bouncing between the Leafs and the Marlies if he is not claimed. I do imagine there will be some team that is willing to throw a late round pick at him to be a veteran at the bottom of their lineup though; especially if they don't think he can get to them on waivers.

I know what you’re saying but I don’t really see it as a Perry vs Spezza thing. I think there was a spot for both and Perry should have been the one here easily over Simmonds and Thornton.

The bolded I think is a pretty fair assessment. I think it’s more to do with his body wearing down than a lack of effort though. He was never a great skater, then add in the style he plays and the fact that he’s not even a big guy. If they want an improvement on the 4th line he absolutely can’t be a regular.

 

[SHANNYPLAN]

Today's armchair GM:

Trades:
Engvall to ARI for TOR 2023 3rd
Muzzin+Kerfoot to ANA for Henrique+Stolarz
Nylander+Anderson to LAK for Roy+Lemieux
Malgin to NJ for Bastian
Mrazek to CHI for Connolly
Offer sheet Mangiapane 6Mx5 (2023 1st+3rd)
Holl to CAR for 2023 3rd
Signings:
Offer sheet Mangiapane 6Mx5
Sign Rodrigues 2.5Mx4
Sign Marchment 4.5Mx4
Sign Comrie 2Mx3
Sign Lemieux 1.65X2
Sign Sandin 1.25Mx1
Sign Liljegren 1.5Mx2
Buyout Connolly -1.16Mx2

Bunting-Matthews-Marner
Mangiapane-Tavares-Marchment
Steeves-Henrique-Rodrigues
Lemieux-Kampf-Bastian
Holmberg

Rielly-Brodie
Sandin-Roy
Giordano-Liljegren

Stolarz
Comrie

82.484M

If the goaltending is awful at the deadline they can unload a package of Henrique/Robertson/Niemela etc. for Hellebuyck

That 3rd line would struggle in the AHL

 

[showtime8]

But that’s pretty much applies to all players.

Not necessarily. A lot of teams are now projecting players out of their ELC's and hoping that they meet or excede their evaluations. Look at what they did with Marner and Matthews. Buffalo did it with Eichel. Jersey did it with Hischier and Hughes.

Helleybuck has played 60+ games in the last 3 full seasons the NHL has had. At some point, the wheels are going to fall off and he's going to break down. Would I take him on my team? 100%. Does he change the outcome of any of the last 3 series that Toronto has? Yes.

Now it comes down to asset price. If he's the true difference maker, you've got 2 years with him at a fixed price to put you over the top. Is Toronto a Eastern Conference Final playoff team with him?

 

[SeaOfBlue]

I wonder what the cost would be for Hellebuyck. Definitely wouldn’t be cheap. I would think it starts with a 1st + Sandin.

At this point, I would think something like Mrazek, Robertson, Abruzzese/Steeves, and a 1st.

Goalie values are finicky. Top proven goalies typically don't get moved, so you don't really have much to go off of, but goalies in general typically do not go for as much as other core guys because they are so unpredictable at times.

 

[Americanadian]

That 3rd line would struggle in the AHL

That's simply not a fact. Henrique/Rodrigues put up 19 goals this year in the NHL (Henrique in 58 games). Both of them were above average defensively. Rodrigues has been a full time NHL player for 4 years and he has 316 GP. Steeves is a current AHL'er but the Leafs have to graduate players eventually. He can be replaced by Holmberg/Robertson or you can bump Lemieux up there.

 

[Gabriel426]

Not necessarily. A lot of teams are now projecting players out of their ELC's and hoping that they meet or excede their evaluations. Look at what they did with Marner and Matthews. Buffalo did it with Eichel. Jersey did it with Hischier and Hughes.

Helleybuck has played 60+ games in the last 3 full seasons the NHL has had. At some point, the wheels are going to fall off and he's going to break down. Would I take him on my team? 100%. Does he change the outcome of any of the last 3 series that Toronto has? Yes.

Now it comes down to asset price. If he's the true difference maker, you've got 2 years with him at a fixed price to put you over the top. Is Toronto a Eastern Conference Final playoff team with him?

The thing is all teams will end up signing players via RFA or UFA where they hope the players will give them more seasons that’s worth their contract.
When it comes to signing players, teams often sign younger players for what they can reach potentially but it is not a guarantee, for every AM, there is a Max Domi, kind of like drafting, sometime top picks don’t work out. In terms of signing older players, teams tend to sign them for what they had done and hope they can maintain that level for the duration of that contract.

As for Helly. He got two years left in his deal. Is Marner worth Helly? In my opinion the answer is yes even if their cap hit are the same. Simply bc a goalie like Helly can steal series on his own. Marner have not done that yet. That’s how high I value having a goalie like Helly. Not to mention their caphit are not same and Leafs could use the difference to sign other players to replace part of MM’S production.

 

[Brobust]

About 5 weeks to the deadline and there are no talks with jack.

I think that could mean we have a trade lined up? I mean why wouldn’t you be talking at this point?

Probably don't want to make any offer until they're more clear about their cap situation next season.

 

[Dreakmur]

Nylander is perceived as a lazy prima donna while Schiefele actually is one. That'll help the team.

Then there's also the fact that Schiefele so bad defensively that he makes Nylander look good.

Scheifele sure isn't perfect, but I think he's a better fit for this team than Nylander. For starters, Scheifele's has scored over a point per game the last 6 seasons in a row - Nylander came close this year, but he's never actually managed to be a point per game in any season. This isn't an offensive downgrade. Also, he fits in better with the style Tavares plays. Scheifele isn't the player Nylander is in open ice, but he's much better down low and in traffic. While inconsistent, he has shown that he can dominate the boards and slot. He can play RW with Tavares, but he can also slide into middle and bump Tavares to LW if it comes to that.

Also, he makes 800,000 less, which we can use elsewhere.

They're both equally frustrating at times. Nylander for lack of effort in his overall game. Scheifele for inconsistency in his physical game and lack of defensive effort.

I'm not sure I make the trade 1 for 1, but I'd think hard about it.

 

[Brobust]

Today's armchair GM:

Trades:
Engvall to ARI for TOR 2023 3rd
Muzzin+Kerfoot to ANA for Henrique+Stolarz
Nylander+Anderson to LAK for Roy+Lemieux
Malgin to NJ for Bastian
Mrazek to CHI for Connolly
Offer sheet Mangiapane 6Mx5 (2023 1st+3rd)
Holl to CAR for 2023 3rd
Signings:
Offer sheet Mangiapane 6Mx5
Sign Rodrigues 2.5Mx4
Sign Marchment 4.5Mx4
Sign Comrie 2Mx3
Sign Lemieux 1.65X2
Sign Sandin 1.25Mx1
Sign Liljegren 1.5Mx2
Buyout Connolly -1.16Mx2

Bunting-Matthews-Marner
Mangiapane-Tavares-Marchment
Steeves-Henrique-Rodrigues
Lemieux-Kampf-Bastian
Holmberg

Rielly-Brodie
Sandin-Roy
Giordano-Liljegren

Stolarz
Comrie

82.484M

If the goaltending is awful at the deadline they can unload a package of Henrique/Robertson/Niemela etc. for Hellebuyck

I don't like the Nylander trade. I think you need more than Matt Roy and an agitator.

 

[Legion34]

Probably don't want to make any offer until they're more clear about their cap situation next season.

But wouldn’t you at least talk?

You don’t have to make a formal offer

 

[SeaOfBlue]

I know what you’re saying but I don’t really see it as a Perry vs Spezza thing. I think there was a spot for both and Perry should have been the one here easily over Simmonds and Thornton.

The bolded I think is a pretty fair assessment. I think it’s more to do with his body wearing down than a lack of effort though. He was never a great skater, then add in the style he plays and the fact that he’s not even a big guy. If they want an improvement on the 4th line he absolutely can’t be a regular.

I think Thornton was a desperate attempt at trying to ignite something.

One of the major pitfalls Dubas has had was placing too much emphasis on chasing that "killer instinct" (which I would not be surprised came from Shanny, who seems to be making a lot of stupid mistakes as a President and would be better off butting out altogether) and settling for subpar players like Simmonds, Thornton, and Foligno to get it.

Like if I had to choose between Thornton and Perry, it would easily be Perry... because it was clear that Thornton had nothing left in the tank even in his last year in San Jose and Perry still had something left to offer. Between Simmonds and Perry? Well Simmonds was 3 years younger and I don't think it is necessarily a bad bet for him to rekindle things in his hometown on a good team (which he had not played on for a number of years before he arrived).

Although in general, our "kids" are now in their mid-20's. They should not need a Spezza or Thornton or Perry or Foligno to teach them the ropes or ignite their passion. If anything, they should be the ones handling those responsibilities now and the ones that people turn to. They have had Spezza in that locker room for 3 years. An idiot could figure out what passion and desire looks like by now. If we bring in a 38 year old, it is because we believe they have something to offer on the ice, like Gio. Otherwise, Dubas has accumulated at least 5 young players who have earned a legitimate look at an NHL spot this year. Those spots used to be occupied by guys who were near the end of their careers and, for the most part, had nothing left to offer. Now they should be occupied by guys who are either hungry to turn their careers around (Tierney, Sanford, Rask, etc.) or guys who are hungry to get their careers started (Anderson, Robertson, Steeves, Holmberg, Abruzzese, etc.). And that is how we will get the surplus value to push us over the top.