BayStBullies
Burn the Boats!
- Apr 1, 2012
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They didn't take discounts. Tampa has a tax advantage in signing contracts.
Trade and Free Agency Thread - 2021/22 - Post Deadline
- Thread starter BertCorbeau
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I don’t agree or disagree but it’s just funny pointing out Tavares and Rielly when they were the only ones who could actually beat Vasi last night.
Americanadian
Registered User
I was absolutely being disingenuous. That's the point - Tampa won the series with depth that Toronto can't afford because their top 3 make 6M more.
That was my point.
as Pure as Evil
Registered User
first part of business
strip jt of his captaincy and move him to ottawa or the peg. his family will tire of being targeted by the media the public scrutiny by june because you know someone will cross that line making him give a few teams he's willing to go to(believe it or not 80 pt centers still hold a lot of value
bunting should be on the block value will never be this high again
you could probably get a phaneuf package for jt from ottawa with him being owed alot less then his cap hit over the last couple years more so if you wait till the bonus is paid
option 2
jt for 1 year of schieffle as the framework as 55 has asked out of the peg
let other teams overpay iily soup ect
fire Keefe maybe. i have a hard time reasoning this as he has done nothing but improve this team season over season. same as i am willing to give the gm one last hurrah
i cant actually call for the heads of the front office . this whole series was a bipolar ref show with no actual rhyme or reason why certain things were called then ignored. it was one of those most suspect and blatant ref manipulated series of my lifetime (see our first goal in game 7. that same play was allowed for a at least a few of the bolts goals this series but we got a penalty for 2 guys skating in to each other )
this whole series should be enough basis why refs need have some form of disciplinary review.
if you cant move jt then you have to open another whole chapter of what ifs
in the last 6+ years do you know the biggest difference between us and tampa. they have gotten pieces back for almost every expiring contract they had. bar a few. when they were fringe they sold when they were on the outside looking in they sold. when they were top 3 they went over the top
this series is loss is more on the players then the management.
but we lost game 7 2-1 to the defending back to back cup winners who most here with the polls expected us to lose. so why is everyone now jumping the shark when they damn well new it would be a tough series that could go either way
strip jt of his captaincy and move him to ottawa or the peg. his family will tire of being targeted by the media the public scrutiny by june because you know someone will cross that line making him give a few teams he's willing to go to(believe it or not 80 pt centers still hold a lot of value
bunting should be on the block value will never be this high again
you could probably get a phaneuf package for jt from ottawa with him being owed alot less then his cap hit over the last couple years more so if you wait till the bonus is paid
option 2
jt for 1 year of schieffle as the framework as 55 has asked out of the peg
let other teams overpay iily soup ect
fire Keefe maybe. i have a hard time reasoning this as he has done nothing but improve this team season over season. same as i am willing to give the gm one last hurrah
i cant actually call for the heads of the front office . this whole series was a bipolar ref show with no actual rhyme or reason why certain things were called then ignored. it was one of those most suspect and blatant ref manipulated series of my lifetime (see our first goal in game 7. that same play was allowed for a at least a few of the bolts goals this series but we got a penalty for 2 guys skating in to each other )
this whole series should be enough basis why refs need have some form of disciplinary review.
if you cant move jt then you have to open another whole chapter of what ifs
in the last 6+ years do you know the biggest difference between us and tampa. they have gotten pieces back for almost every expiring contract they had. bar a few. when they were fringe they sold when they were on the outside looking in they sold. when they were top 3 they went over the top
this series is loss is more on the players then the management.
but we lost game 7 2-1 to the defending back to back cup winners who most here with the polls expected us to lose. so why is everyone now jumping the shark when they damn well new it would be a tough series that could go either way
keonsbitterness
Registered User
Can we please stop with the Kawhi stuff? The Raps found the proverbial needle in a haystack, which is a metaphor for something that happens very rarely.
JT Miller is a good player. He's no Kawhi. Tampa also let Miller go before they went on to win two Cups. If he was such a big difference-maker, why didn't he show it in Tampa?
SprDaVE
Moderator
- Sep 20, 2008
- 55,873
- 41,234
The summer and off-season is always so damn long, so things can change pretty fast. At a glance, this is my start to the off-season:
-Re-sign Campbell 3 x 3.75M contract. Sandin 1 x 1.25M. Liljegren 2 x 1.75M. Engvall 3 x 2M. Giordano 1 x 900k base (up to 1.5M with bonuses?) . Re-sign Kase to the same contract 1 x 1.25M. Spezza retires and joins the Leafs staff in some capacity.
-Trade Kerfoot for at least a 2nd in this years draft (probably also a mid round pick too). A team I think that would be interested is Dallas, so I'll send him there.
-Trade Mrazek (800k retained), Duzsak and maybe the mid round pick acquired in the Kerfoot trade to Arizona for Brian Little (LTIR).
Before free agency hits, the Leafs would have roughly 2.5M in cap space. They can go over the cap around 5M with Littles LTIR cap space.
This would put Robertson and Steeves as starters, and Anderson as a likely option to make it as well. Leafs should be targetting a Blackwell replacement for the 4th line, they really need a center there. They should also target a heavy winger and probably a back-up goaltender unless Kallgren and Woll are your options.
This is more or less the same lineup as this year, so I understand a lot of people won't like it.
-Re-sign Campbell 3 x 3.75M contract. Sandin 1 x 1.25M. Liljegren 2 x 1.75M. Engvall 3 x 2M. Giordano 1 x 900k base (up to 1.5M with bonuses?) . Re-sign Kase to the same contract 1 x 1.25M. Spezza retires and joins the Leafs staff in some capacity.
-Trade Kerfoot for at least a 2nd in this years draft (probably also a mid round pick too). A team I think that would be interested is Dallas, so I'll send him there.
-Trade Mrazek (800k retained), Duzsak and maybe the mid round pick acquired in the Kerfoot trade to Arizona for Brian Little (LTIR).
Before free agency hits, the Leafs would have roughly 2.5M in cap space. They can go over the cap around 5M with Littles LTIR cap space.
This would put Robertson and Steeves as starters, and Anderson as a likely option to make it as well. Leafs should be targetting a Blackwell replacement for the 4th line, they really need a center there. They should also target a heavy winger and probably a back-up goaltender unless Kallgren and Woll are your options.
This is more or less the same lineup as this year, so I understand a lot of people won't like it.
Yeah ,not like theyre bad players. Those two make the most sense for various reasons imo
Must happen:
Kerfoot out - Knies/Robertson to replace
Holl out - Liljegren to replace
Mrazek out - free up cap space
Might happen:
Engvall/Mikheyev out - both invisible this series
Muzzin out - we need to free up cap
Nylander out - personally hoping this doesn’t happen, unless we bring in someone like JT Miller
1A/1B goalie - bring someone in to platoon with Campbell, assuming Campbell doesn’t price himself out.
What we need:
A legit 3C, slide Kampf down as the 4C.
Bottom 6ers who can be physical and actually play. Simmonds/Clifford-like players except not past their prime.
Kerfoot out - Knies/Robertson to replace
Holl out - Liljegren to replace
Mrazek out - free up cap space
Might happen:
Engvall/Mikheyev out - both invisible this series
Muzzin out - we need to free up cap
Nylander out - personally hoping this doesn’t happen, unless we bring in someone like JT Miller
1A/1B goalie - bring someone in to platoon with Campbell, assuming Campbell doesn’t price himself out.
What we need:
A legit 3C, slide Kampf down as the 4C.
Bottom 6ers who can be physical and actually play. Simmonds/Clifford-like players except not past their prime.
Stephen
Moderator
- Feb 28, 2002
- 83,130
- 62,060
I'm glad you took the time to write it up and presenting a comprehensive plan like this. My first reaction is it feels too conservative. My feeling is the cap cutting needs to go deeper and include Muzzin - not negotiable, and Holl could go too, and bigger changes need to happen in the middle of the lineup. The Leafs have attempted to bring in some personality with Simmonds and Clifford in the past, and I think they half got it right, but need more prime aged Ontario players who are big body, play with playoff nastiness who can have full time roles. No more waterbugs like Kerfoot and Blackwell.
SprDaVE
Moderator
- Sep 20, 2008
- 55,873
- 41,234
I'm on the fence with Kase, Blackwell and Giordano to be honest.
Muzzin showed how good he can be in the playoffs. He was physical, he showed poise and defensively was very good. A good long off-season and he's likely back at 110%. I agree with everything else.
Offensively and defensively, the Leafs were among the best. I don't think we need to completely overreact to it. Goaltending sucked and got injured. I do agree the Leafs could use more age appropriate "grit" and nastiness in the lineup though.
Douglas is signed and maybe he comes into training turning heads. He's a big physical nasty guy. Steeves and Anderson are pretty gritty, albeit not overly nasty. This is why I don't care if they keep Kase and Blackwell, because I think the Leafs need a different look... but we'll see.
Martin Skoula
Registered User
- Oct 18, 2017
- 12,535
- 17,657
Weegar is good but takes a lot of dumb aggression penalties, he'd get crucified in Toronto.
I think this offseason would be a great time to try and unload some mid-tier salary and get younger at the bottom of the roster while going for another big fish either at LW of in goal.
Move out:
Engvall (RFA rights)
Kerfoot
Mrazek
Holl
Muzzin (see if he is willing to go back to LA) if Gio is willing to re-sign cheap.
Re-sign
Kase (RFA)
Blackwell (UFA)
Campbell or trade for a goalie
Sign:
Noel Acciari (upgrade on Simmonds and can play C/ handle tough defensive assignments)
Start with:
Bunting-Matthews-Marner
Robertson-Tavares-Nylander
Anderson-Kampf-Kase
Steeves-Holmberg/Acciari-Blackwell/Acciari
Add Knies at the end of the year*
Rielly-Liljegren
Sandin-Brodie
Gio or Muzzin- use cap space to sign/go for big fish.
Kral-Niemela/RD depth signing
Campbell or upgrade
Kallgren/depth upgrade on Hutch
Move out:
Engvall (RFA rights)
Kerfoot
Mrazek
Holl
Muzzin (see if he is willing to go back to LA) if Gio is willing to re-sign cheap.
Re-sign
Kase (RFA)
Blackwell (UFA)
Campbell or trade for a goalie
Sign:
Noel Acciari (upgrade on Simmonds and can play C/ handle tough defensive assignments)
Start with:
Bunting-Matthews-Marner
Robertson-Tavares-Nylander
Anderson-Kampf-Kase
Steeves-Holmberg/Acciari-Blackwell/Acciari
Add Knies at the end of the year*
Rielly-Liljegren
Sandin-Brodie
Gio or Muzzin- use cap space to sign/go for big fish.
Kral-Niemela/RD depth signing
Campbell or upgrade
Kallgren/depth upgrade on Hutch
Seems even Montreal fans aren't that in love wirh Anderson.
Americanadian
Registered User
Magic Man
Registered User
Keep Matthews and Marner. I would fire the rest of them into the deepest part of the sun.
In a years time if they are still first round losers. Sell Matthews to the highest bidder and rebuild.
In a years time if they are still first round losers. Sell Matthews to the highest bidder and rebuild.
SprDaVE
Moderator
- Sep 20, 2008
- 55,873
- 41,234
So you move out a lot of players and salary, and not replace any of them? Why aren't we using the cap space?
Americanadian
Registered User
hamzarocks
Registered User
Well yeah because Nylander isn't worth the 2nd overall pick in 2022 draft
It would be a very good deal for us so long as we are willing to accept the 2nd pick could take time to become elite/may never become elite
Martin Skoula
Registered User
- Oct 18, 2017
- 12,535
- 17,657
We led the playoffs in penalty minutes with a soft roster, that's not a problem I want getting worse. If he takes elbowing and roughing calls playing mean in the corners it's one thing but he is easy to get on his temper and make him take retaliatory calls after the whistle.
Americanadian
Registered User
Weegar apparently has a reputation for aggression penalties but had less PIMs than 5/7 D (Liljegren, Muzzin had less) that played for the Leafs in the 1st round. I would take him in a heartbeat.
Skullz
Registered User
- Jul 5, 2013
- 806
- 1,196
Kase I would not bring back. He's a good player when healthy, but too many injuries. He should retire. I am guessing we could get more for Kerfoot than just that, he had over 50 points. If that's all we get I might keep him, although I want the cap space.
Mrazek has to be gone, and I would consider trading Holl as well, he's not as bad as people say but it has run its course. I think we need to trade Muzzin too tho, he was great in the playoffs, but he's turning 34 and makes 5.6 million; he also is blocking Sandin from getting more minutes, and we need to find more ice time for Sandin or move him tbh. Blackwell was okay on the fourth, but I'd prefer a bigger guy with some jam, but we need people who can skate, not simmonds or clifford.
Lastly, we need to explore whether a JT trade is possible. I do not want to pay him 11 million for the next three years. If it doesn't work, okay, but it needs to be looked at.
Superstar
"Be water, my friend."
- Jun 25, 2008
- 12,862
- 9,245
There are ways to even the playing field...Matthews, Marner and Tavares got huge signing bonuses up front every year, which allows them to invest the money early as well as getting more favourable tax treatment on those bonuses...and Point definitely did...he signed a bargain of a bridge-deal and only extended to $9.5 million per after winning the Cup.
You might wanna take a look at what Tampa depth players are paid before you put forth the theory that the Leafs depth was hampered by lack of money.
These are all the guys that scored for Tampa outside of their big 4 (Point, Hedman, Kuch and Stamkos) and their cap hits
Nick Paul - Makes 750k
Corey Perry - Makes $1 million
Brandon Hagel - Makes $1.5
Ross Colton - Makes $1 million
Ondrej Palat - Makes $5 million, he's leaving in the off season. Kerfoot would be our equivalent of him.
Ryan McDonagh - Makes $6.75 million. Kinda stretching it to call McDonagh a depth player too.
Alex Killorn - Makes 4.5.
The cap space could be used to add a big fish, prefferably in goal or at RD. I just have no idea who those would be at the moment.
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