Trade and Free Agency Thread - 2021/22 - Post Deadline

[Stephen]

Sandin doesn't even have a path onto the team at the moment, and hasn't shown well in his auditions on his off-side. He's not an overly strong skater, he's better suited for powerplay than he is for PK...because he's not that strong defensively. He loses board battles constantly.....
We have Rielly-Brodie
Muzzin-Holl (hopefully traded)
Giordano-Liljegren
Muzzin and Giordano are both better defensively than Sandin, and it's not even close. If we want to compete now....why not move him for another promising young player? We have guys like Niemela in the system too... I don't get this hardcore love for Sandin. By all accounts, Liljegren has been the better of the two. We need to find a physical RH Dman with some size to add into the mix, Sandin isn't that.

What makes Sandin a difficult promotion is you basically want him at an elite Adam Fox level giving you unique transition game, special teams and offensive production. Then you surround him with protection. But that's a plum role requiring a high level of productivity and Morgan Rielly is in his way. You slot him lower in the pecking order and he's not giving you enough of the meat and potatoes stuff and not in a position to show off his strengths that often.

Sort of like if you drafted a Mitch Marner who was only 70% Mitch Marner. You might not have room for him where he would really thrive, but he's not going to give you the best bottom six impact either.

 

[ULF_55]

Hmm looks like I was only half right. Didn't know there was a cap recapture penalty on his contract.



So Keith and Smith retiring would have Edmonton carrying 5.6 million in dead cap next season.

I read it:

Smith: 2.2mm cap hit
Keither: -3.4mm cap hit

So Oilers would have 1.2 increase to available Cap Space.

 

[LeafChief]

I read it:

Smith: 2.2mm cap hit
Keither: -3.4mm cap hit

So Oilers would have 1.2 increase to available Cap Space.

Oh - you may be right. I have no idea how these recapture penalties work.

 

[Morgs]

K'Andre Miller is already playing 25 minutes on an ECF team at 22 with a 6'4" body and elite skating ability. I'd say they have the LHD side locked up and those Lindgren, Braun level players behind him are already a good compliment and support for their Adam Fox on the top pair.

Big Minutes /=/ good minutes.

 

[ULF_55]

I'm still intrigued as to who this top 6 forward with "Tenacity" and "Grit" is going to be. Options are limited.

Bertuzzi is still unvaccinated.
Evander Kane is gonna be asking for too much

Marchment? (Meh)
JT Miller? (Gonna have to be an overpay)

I don't even know who else could be out there.

I think it has to be Bunting V2

 

[Nylanderthal]

LOL GTFO


Not a chance.



I don't think Foegele is considered dead weight by them? Either way though, there's a path to a trade there I think.

July 1st is supposed to be when Smith and Keith are to let Holland know if they plan on retiring. Neither Keith or Smith committed to returning at the end of their end-of-season availability...the retirement thought definitely is swirling and if it is...it doesn't go away, the thought is there because the body says it's done.

He was scratched by them late in the post season and was the focus of some unhappiness. I doubt he’s as hated on hfoil and mrazek is here, but I see him in a similar group.

 

[WTFMAN99]

Sandin doesn't even have a path onto the team at the moment, and hasn't shown well in his auditions on his off-side. He's not an overly strong skater, he's better suited for powerplay than he is for PK...because he's not that strong defensively. He loses board battles constantly.....
We have Rielly-Brodie
Muzzin-Holl (hopefully traded)
Giordano-Liljegren
Muzzin and Giordano are both better defensively than Sandin, and it's not even close. If we want to compete now....why not move him for another promising young player? We have guys like Niemela in the system too... I don't get this hardcore love for Sandin. By all accounts, Liljegren has been the better of the two. We need to find a physical RH Dman with some size to add into the mix, Sandin isn't that.
What do you think Sandin is worth in a trade if he's too good for Kakko? Just curious/ looking for an intelligent conversation...as clever as a "LOL GTFO" reply was

The path is clearing cap space and moving Muzzin who only has a few years left in the league vs Sandin who figures to have another 10 probably.

He's got great agility, "good" speed...trust me, anyone would love Mackenzie Weegar on this team and Sandin is a better skater, it's not a big deal. Sandin is fine defensively, just needs to actually get stronger, that takes time.

If I was gonna trade someone that I project as a top 4D, I would probably aim for a top 6 forward and given how important D are, probably trying to find a good 2C because obviously you're not getting a 1C.

Hendrix Lapierre might be a good target...Kirby Dach is available but I question the offensive upside.

Mavrique Bourque is probably showing a little too well for Dallas to want to give him up.

Not sure how Minnesota feels about Rossi.

I'd wait to see how things go with Sandin, we drafted Liljegren in 2017 and gave him lots of seasoning in the AHL. Sandin we took the year after...maybe we should see if he starts to break out in similar fashion.

Overall though, Giordano and Muzzin are on the wrong side of the age curve for me to feel okay in trading Sandin.

 

[Nylander88]

My concern would be that Muzzin and Giordano could fall off (or get hurt) at basically any moment. Sandin is very important to the future of this team.

I have to give it to you that there's a strong chance of a Muzzin injury occuring at some point given his track record. Gio has been fairly durable throughout his career...and showed he can easily be a third pairing player for the next two years (he looked easily top 4 quality last season). So let's say we sign a Dman, which we likely will...honestly I know some people won't love it but I could see Subban coming to his childhood dream team for pennies ...or Lyubushkin re-signing if not. We'll pretend we've traded Holl
Rielly-Brodie
Muzzin-Subban
Giordano-Liljegren
Or
Rielly-Lyubushkin
Muzzin-Brodie
Giordano-Liljegren
(Essentially what we had for the playoffs)

Muzzin goes down, you still have Brodie that can switch to the left side, young guys or Marlies like Dahlstrom & Rubins or Duszak & Niemela. Not to mention I'm sure at the very minimum we sign a vet to a two-way deal (like we did with Alex Biega for insurance). I think we can cash in on Sandin, and I'd rather see us do that, then have him rot in the press box. I just don't see an obvious path for him, and holding him as a #7 incase of injury is rough for the development...and a much better job for the Marty Marincin's of the world

 

[Nylanderthal]

Remembered leafs like 10-15 years ago when leafs line up look like

Ponikarovsky-Stajan Antropov
Blake-Grabovski-kulemin
Hagman-Moore-stempniak
May-mitchell-Mayers

Kaberle-Kubina
White-Finger
Schenn- frogren

With almost all of those player who was completly trash in Toronto and outside of toronto. Do you think Mrazek would be able to have the same kind of stats or even Campbell in front of that leafs team than the stats they had in front actual leafs team ( and/or Carolina for Mrazek)?

The last 3 years ducks team was not better than that leafs edition team.

As a fan it was hard watching game until the end of season, imagine as a player who know after 30 game they already out of playoff... howndo you still motivated for a player, play for fun? What kind of fun do you want to have by being destroy almost every game?

This season ducks was good until late january and Gibson was pretty good too until ducks start to suck at an elite level... During 13 of 26 game hes player, ducks was outshot by at least 11 he allowed almost 2X number of shot they had... how do you believe a goalie can stay hot by playing all game long in your own zone every 2 game?

That’s a lot of words bro… Gibson has been ass and has been outperformed by his net mate. It’s less to do with the team in front of him and his mental make up at this point

 

[ULF_55]

K'Andre Miller is already playing 25 minutes on an ECF team at 22 with a 6'4" body and elite skating ability. I'd say they have the LHD side locked up and those Lindgren, Braun level players behind him are already a good compliment and support for their Adam Fox on the top pair.

All of their defenders were playing in front of Shestirkin, with his .935.

 

[ToneDog]

I read it:

Smith: 2.2mm cap hit
Keither: -3.4mm cap hit

So Oilers would have 1.2 increase to available Cap Space.

Wouldn't Keith's be 5.5m - 3.4m = 2.1m ??

 

[kb]

Wouldn't Keith's be 5.5m - 3.4m = 2.1m ??

No, his $5.5 million is gone and they get an additional 3.4 million in extra cap space.

EDIT: But nothing close to this shows on Cap Friendly. Odd.

 

[OVO16]

I think it has to be Bunting V2

Bunting was a pest. He wasn't overly tenacious or robust.

We need a proper tenacious big-bodied top 6 forward who can create some space for either Mathews or Tavares.

Someone mentioned Nidarreiter and I think he could be a solid option. Miles Wood could be a buy-low candidate.

I don't know if we're gonna have space but Nick Paul could potentially see some productivity increase if he played besides Tavares and Nylander.

 

[BayStBullies]

Hmm looks like I was only half right. Didn't know there was a cap recapture penalty on his contract.



So Keith and Smith retiring would have Edmonton carrying 5.6 million in dead cap next season.

Do you mind explaining your interpretation? Reading the link you sourced, it sounds like they'd be given a credit.

 

[OVO16]

Leafs only need 1 top 6 tenacious forward...because Mathew Knies is a guarantee to be coming up next year before the playoffs.

XXX - Mathews - Marner
Knies - Tavares - Nylander
Bunting - Kampf - XXX
Engvall - XXX - XXX

Is how I see it. Obviously, we would need a placeholder for Knies spot until he can play. Most likely a Marlies candidate

 

[Stephen]

Big Minutes /=/ good minutes.

The Rangers went to Game 6 of the ECF with Miller playing second highest minutes on the team behind Fox over a 20 game stretch. That's pretty damn good for a 22 year old and a track record we would love to have.

 

[Stephen]

Leafs only need 1 top 6 tenacious forward...because Mathew Knies is a guarantee to be coming up next year before the playoffs.

XXX - Mathews - Marner
Knies - Tavares - Nylander
Bunting - Kampf - XXX
Engvall - XXX - XXX

Is how I see it. Obviously, we would need a placeholder for Knies spot until he can play. Most likely a Marlies candidate

We can't plan the 2023 playoff run on Matthew Knies playing a critical role right out of college. That's a fairly long bet.

 

[OVO16]

We can't plan the 2023 playoff run on Matthew Knies playing a critical role right out of college. That's a fairly long bet.

I think he's ready. He'll make an impact. Just a gut feeling

 

[Stephen]

All of their defenders were playing in front of Shestirkin, with his .935.

If we had a big body 22 year old defenseman who could skate like the wind and play 25 minutes a night of playoff hockey over 3 rounds we wouldn't be worried about that side of the blueline corps is all I'm saying.

 

[BertCorbeau]

I think he's ready. He'll make an impact. Just a gut feeling

Still need to get through the entire season .. I think it allows the Leafs to roll the dice on a short term boom/bust option rather than a big investment though.

 

[thusk]

That’s a lot of words bro… Gibson has been ass and has been outperformed by his net mate. It’s less to do with the team in front of him and his mental make up at this point

Oh stolarz, yeah he was great against bottom 12 team in NhL and bad against top 20...

Against top 20 when he was starting goalie, hes at 0.890%

 

[Morgs]

The Rangers went to Game 6 of the ECF with Miller playing second highest minutes on the team behind Fox over a 20 game stretch. That's pretty damn good for a 22 year old and a track record we would love to have.

I said he had sky high potential. Doesn't mean his results have been very good so far

 

[Menzinger]

Trying to get a gauge on Zack Aston-Reese. If the contracts are equal, who is a better fit for the Leafs? Kase or ZAR?

ZAR is a defensive specialist who'll give you very little in terms of offense and has a physical edge. Imo a good fit for what the Leafs may want to have on the 4th line instead of a guy like Clifford whose physical but lacking in other areas of impact at this point in his career.

I'd be pretty interested in bringing him to the Leafs

 

[ULF_55]

Bunting was a pest. He wasn't overly tenacious or robust.

We need a proper tenacious big-bodied top 6 forward who can create some space for either Mathews or Tavares.

Someone mentioned Nidarreiter and I think he could be a solid option. Miles Wood could be a buy-low candidate.

I don't know if we're gonna have space but Nick Paul could potentially see some productivity increase if he played besides Tavares and Nylander.

I don't mean a Bunting clone, I mean a player who, like Bunting, is under the radar waiting for a break-out opportunity.

 

[ToneDog]

No, his $5.5 million is gone and they get an additional 3.4 million in extra cap space.

EDIT: But nothing close to this shows on Cap Friendly. Odd.

We need a capologist. I read it that Keith's 5.5m no longer counts against the cap but they take on 3.4m in dead cap for him instead which saves them 2.1m in cap space if he retires.