youhave absolutely no idea if they’ll get more juice out of crouse than they would kerfoot. Kerfoot has played very well including the playoffs. It’s easy to say someone will play good with better players and more minutes but that’s not always the case. No one knows if crouse and his career high of 25 points will play better with better players.
GDT: Trade and Free Agency Thread - 2021/22 PART VI
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DraftSchmaft
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- Jul 29, 2021
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So the Kerfoot trade was more optional. That was more, if Crouse did work out here, we gain the option of selling high on Kerfoot and moving Kampf to 4C.
I am completely fine with Bunting/Crouse in the top 6 and Kerfoot still on the team. 20 goal 200 hit guys are untouchable at the age of 25, Leafs can take Crouse there.
We get 4M worth of players we are going to need double retention
I'm willing to bet with you right now we go past that number
DraftSchmaft
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At the half season mark Kerfoot has 6 goals. That's enough data to know we're not maximizing that spot.
What does his career high in points have to do with him currently pacing 20 goals and 200 hits with arizona? Didn't Bunting teach us anything about Arizona paces? It's a good bet to make I think.
And I already said above if the price gets too ridiculous I back out as well.
thusk
Registered User
Group A 
otentiel player who can be trade for a 1st pick
Foward :Giroux, Pavelski, Hertl, Jt miller
Def :Klingberg, Lindholm, Chychrun, Giordano
Group B price around a 2nd pick
Foward
Kessel, rakell, copp, statsny
def: Manson, chiarot, ristolainen ans colin miller
Group c at best a 3rd round pick
Foward : radulov, jarnkrok, domi, clutterbuck, thierney
Def :subban, dehaan, stralman, braun, dekeyser
The thing to do, call anaheim and offer something like a 1st pick ritchie, abramov+ abruzzese or like a 3 or 4th pick for manso and rakell at 50%
You get a second bunting with rakell and a big physical top 4 dman with manson. I dont remember a year with that much of quality player available at trade deadline. So Toronto can find good player at a low price this season.
otentiel player who can be trade for a 1st pickFoward :Giroux, Pavelski, Hertl, Jt miller
Def :Klingberg, Lindholm, Chychrun, Giordano
Group B price around a 2nd pick
Foward
Kessel, rakell, copp, statsny
def: Manson, chiarot, ristolainen ans colin miller
Group c at best a 3rd round pick
Foward : radulov, jarnkrok, domi, clutterbuck, thierney
Def :subban, dehaan, stralman, braun, dekeyser
The thing to do, call anaheim and offer something like a 1st pick ritchie, abramov+ abruzzese or like a 3 or 4th pick for manso and rakell at 50%
You get a second bunting with rakell and a big physical top 4 dman with manson. I dont remember a year with that much of quality player available at trade deadline. So Toronto can find good player at a low price this season.
Why are you so concerned with his goal scoring? We have plenty of goals scorers in the top 6. Not everyone has to score. And even if crouse was a 20/20 guy that would put him 8-9 goals ahead. They have plenty of scorers to compensate for that. Kerfoot plays a solid forcheck with good defence.
Havoc
Registered User
- Jul 25, 2009
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Group A
Foward :Giroux, Pavelski, Hertl, Jt miller
Def :Klingberg, Lindholm, Chychrun, Giordano
Group B price around a 2nd pick
Foward
Kessel, rakell, copp, statsny
def: Manson, chiarot, ristolainen ans colin miller
Group c at best a 3rd round pick
Foward : radulov, jarnkrok, domi, clutterbuck, thierney
Def :subban, dehaan, stralman, braun, dekeyser
The thing to do, call anaheim and offer something like a 1st pick ritchie, abramov+ abruzzese or like a 3 or 4th pick for manso and rakell at 50%
You get a second bunting with rakell and a big physical top 4 dman with manson. I dont remember a year with that much of quality player available at trade deadline. So Toronto can find good player at a low price this season.
I don't think this gets it done. Not even close. They have to also retain on Rakell AND take Ritchie?
Rakell is currently close to 19 minutes a night on a team that still thinks it can make the playoffs. I don't even think you can get him for just a 2nd.
DraftSchmaft
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All I can say is go do some research. It's a fact that if Crouse was to become a 20/20 power forward here at this age, people will laugh in our face to know we gave that up because we prefer Kerfoot as 2LW. I dont even know why this concept is dragging on.
The only thing up for debate is if he actually does become that here (which I think he does) and if the price, if ever made known, is too high or not.
On that note I'm ending the Crouse topic here. I've said everything I have on the subject by now.
Maplebeasts
I See Demons!!!!!
I think if the target is a RHD LA should be the target. They're married to Doughty with that contract and already have Roy, Walker, Durzi, Spence, and Clarke who will be battling for roster spots at the next training camp. Brock faber is also going to be entering the mix for their RHD spots either sometime next season or the season after. There could be a nice buy low opportunity for someone like Spence if they want to keep Roy around. Spence is legitimately fantastic and is one of the best defenseman in the AHL at 20. There's real potential there for something valuable.
thusk
Registered User
1- Value of player come with the market... it will be pretty hard get a 1st pick when you have have a player like pavelski, giroux, hertl, klingberg, lindholm, giordano at the same price. So yes value of rakell will drop for that reason like manson.
2- ducks right now are 9th % of pts and they really dont playong well. They get outplayed in their last 4 game against detroit, ottawa, montreal and toronto. They can say a big thanks to gibson and montenbeault vs montreal to be able to grap 6 of 8 points unstead of 0. But they will not win a lot of game playing that way on second half of season i can tell you.
Well what I do know is that it’s a FACT that we don’t know if crouse would ever be a 20/20 guy here or if people would laugh in the leafs fans face. It’s such an irrelevant comment as people don’t even know if the leafs are in on Crouse.
BertCorbeau
F*ck cancer - RIP Fugu and Buffaloed
I'm in for Crouse if the price is right. I think you have to consider that he won't bump off Bunting or Kerfoot on the first/second lines at first (if ever) so his production is going to take a hit .. He also won't get nearly 18 minutes a night.
But his size and physicality would be a boost in the bottom 6 at the very least and he certainly is showing some of his potential to be that power forward that you fawn over. So with that kind of upside and control beyond this season, I think you can take a gamble if the price is right. These types of players are really hard to find so sometimes it takes a gamble.
I wouldn't pencil him into the top 6 yet (but it could be an option). Still leaves some bottom 6 options:
Mikheyev-Kampf-Kase
Crouse-Spezza-Simmonds/Engvall
But his size and physicality would be a boost in the bottom 6 at the very least and he certainly is showing some of his potential to be that power forward that you fawn over. So with that kind of upside and control beyond this season, I think you can take a gamble if the price is right. These types of players are really hard to find so sometimes it takes a gamble.
I wouldn't pencil him into the top 6 yet (but it could be an option). Still leaves some bottom 6 options:
Mikheyev-Kampf-Kase
Crouse-Spezza-Simmonds/Engvall
SeaOfBlue
The Passion That Unites Us All
- Aug 1, 2013
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Do we really need RHD prospects right now though, especially undersized offensive defensemen?
Spence's value comes from the PP and putting up offense. It looks like Rielly and Sandin have that locked down for the foreseeable future, and then we also have guys like Niemela and Liljegren (as RHD) who can easily provide value there too while also looking a lot more refined defensively.
I also don't think that is the Leafs' top priority right now.
Maplebeasts
I See Demons!!!!!
You could then go after Matt Roy for immediate help. They're in a position though where they have too many RHD and will need to lose somebody valuable for cheap.
I dont disagree on Kerfoot having decent chemistry, but his impact isnt very big. Tavares-Nylander do well enough without him (small sample size, but they do better)
I think if you looked to move Kerfoot, you can likely get about the same return as it would cost to get Crouse (we may come out ahead).
If we are going to spend a ton of assets more than what Kerfoot costs, id rather go after Hagel. Those extra 2 years at 1.5m is huge!
The 3C is something I think we need regardless of cost. Kampf is doing fine, but if we want to be a real contender having that big of a black hole on a 3rd line makes me feel like we are asking way too much of his linemates.
DraftSchmaft
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You said "even if...." bringing up a hypothetical world where Crouse came here and became a 20/20 power forward, dismissing it as if it's something casual.
So I responded with how NOT casual it is.
Like I said, go do some research how rare it is to own a player that can go 20/20 200+ hits at Crouses age and see if you come here again with your "even if...".
I'm no longer responding to Crouse replies if they're nonsense replies that lack understanding.
It's a bit disingenuous, but factual, to say he has a career high 25 pts. 19-20 he was on a 31 point pace in a shortened season.
Crouse is 24, and is on pace to have a 20-20 season while also throwing a ton of hits and being a good forechecker. His centers have been Travis Boyd/ Johan Larson and the other winger is a 34 y.o Kessel.
Kerfoots is playing with Tavares and Nylander/Marner essentially the whole year.
Not saying Crouse would be on a 60 point pace, but I'd wager a good sum he wouldn't be too far of Kerfoot.
For context Kerfoots age 24 year year he had 42 points in 78 game with better line mates and PP1 time.
The reason im in favour of Crouse is I think he brings an element our team currently doesnt have enough of, and Kerfoot (IMO) is the spare guy who is benefiting more than he is adding to our teams good play.
My assumption is you can move Kerfoot and add Crouse for about the same cost in assets.
I also believe Crouse is going to make less than Kerfoot 3.5m next year unless he comes here and starts scoring at a 60 point pace. He is still an RFA.
We'll need his skill set come playoff time. And, judging from our recent (and not so recent history) we have not learned from it....so, are we again setting ourselves up with a skill only team that runs & hides when the going gets tough?
Havoc
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I'm not totally sold on Crouse, I'd need to look into him more, but I agree the bolded is a fact.
stickty111
Registered User
- Jan 23, 2017
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Last year's team was anything but an all skill team. We literally traded a 1st for grit last year, signed Simmonds and Bogosian.
It's crazy how people make up stuff like we only had a skill team. Did people pay attention last year?
Last year we had anything but a skill only team.
How about we stop blaming skill, and realise our best players just need to play better. Simple as that.
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To be fair our 1st went for a guy with grit who destroyed his back before he really got to play for us, and well before the playoffs. His back is still effed up (1 goal and 7 points in 26 games) and since being traded to us has shot under 20%in 40 games.
If we had the 'real' Foligno (40ish point pace, forechecking wizard, net front d-bag) I think that series is a bit different.
stickty111
Registered User
- Jan 23, 2017
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That Foligno existed 3-5 years ago. Anyways that wasn't the point I was making. The user was falsly claiming we had all skill team last season.
DraftSchmaft
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Foligno + Simmonds is your idea of being okay on grit? No team was scared of bad back Foligno and a Simmonds whose a shadow of his former self. Simmonds won't even last the whole playoffs if he forechecked hard consistently. End up on the IR.
If you want to see what playoff grit is, find some clips of Tampa games and watch Goodrow. Less than 1 mil cap hit at the time too. It makes sense Tampa was one of the first teams rumored to be in on Crouse when they heard his name was available. Why break the formula? Less than 1 mil cap hit at the deadline for a guy that provides more value than he's being paid for and fills a need they had (grit).
Hits isn't a deciding factor for grit, it goes beyond hits, but it is also concerning the players ranked 2nd and 3rd for playoff hits last season no longer play for us (Hyman, Galchenyuk).
Genuinely curious how people think we're okay on the grit side if we stand pat in that department today? The core 4 deserves to be surrounded with some intense players.
I agree with you this team can win just off the core 4 showing up, but that doesn't mean grit isn't a need.
Toronto
Ritchie
Kerfoot
2022 first round pick
Lilly
Robertson
Arizona
Chychrun
Crouse
Ritchie
Kerfoot
2022 first round pick
Lilly
Robertson
Arizona
Chychrun
Crouse
thusk
Registered User
Grit is not about hit, its about working hard... to ein in playoff, you need everybody working hard.
I will give you an exemple. Mitch Marner, lets talk about him. Whats is the biggest difference between the marner we see right now and the marner of last playoff and beginning of the season? Work, work and work.. he dont just stay on the outside around the board and let his skill do all the work. He battle to get the puck back, he drive the net, he battle to get the loose puck in the slot. That's make all the diference. If matthews marner and buntinf play that way in playoff, no body will be able to shutdown that line again.
You can add crouse or every player you want with grit, if the core don't make the difference, Toronto are in trouble. Everything start with work hard and work well.
Like tampa, if point or kucherov dont play really hard in playoff... They can have player like coleman, goodrow or whatever, they will loose. Everything start with point/Kucherov and Vasilevsky.
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