GDT: Trade and Free Agency Thread - 2021/22 PART V

[WTFMAN99]

With Kral coming on, maybe Sandin’s more expendable.

I see it as Rielly-Muzzin-Sandin....they should try to bridge Sandin this off season for 2 years to ride out the Muzzin deal unless Muzzin continues declining.

At the conclusion of those 2 years, Kral is more than ready to make the team.

I am willing to adjust the plan as needed for example if an injury occurs and we try Kral and he shows he's ready now...okay you explore value on another player.

 

[Stephen]

I think something around the basis of Marner + for Draisaitl is possible. And saves the leafs 2.5m in cap space plus Edmonton gets the player for an extra year.

you’d have to think Edmonton would want a C back if they’re trading one of the two though. But then again it’s the Oilers brass we’re talking about here.

A Draisaitl for Marner would be an interesting framework. Not the Oiler we want but he’s an offensive machine. Throw him with Matthews and that’s a Legion of Doom II.

 

[Punch Drunk Loov]

Has Holland made an exciting trade in his career?

 

[Kurtz]

So weird.

Marner is insanely better than Kakko and Lafreniere. Why would edmonton want far worse players?

And their ELCs expire this year anyways.

Why would Edmonton want Marner in return for Mcdavid? They're a fringe playoff team with Mcdavid - that swap would only open up 1 mil cap room for them but would entrench them into the worst conceivable spot - out of the playoffs but likely not bad enough to be assured of a top 3 pick.

No, if they're dealing Mcdavid it's rebuild time for them. And if you're rebuilding, taking a bet on a recent 1st overall and 2nd overall picks who are at a nadir in their value is a smart move.


Alternatively, in the very unlikely event that McDavid did demand a trade specifically here, and Edm obliged and wished to remain competitive, I bet they'd opt for Nylander over Marner, as it would give them breathing room to add the depth they lack.

 

[TMLAM34]

To Toronto: Connor Murphy + Marc-Andre Fleury (50% retained)
To Chicago: Petr Mrazek + Travis Dermott + Nick Ritchie + Nicholas Abruzzese

Salary is almost identical, Leaf’s actually gain almost 500k in cap space.

Bunting - Matthews - Marner
Kerfoot - Tavares - Nylander
Mikheyev - Kampf - Kase
Engvall - Spezza - Simmonds

Rielly - Murphy
Muzzin - Brodie
Sandin - Liljegren/Holl

Campbell - Fleury

 

[ToneDog]

Why would Edmonton want Marner in return for Mcdavid? They're a fringe playoff team with Mcdavid - that swap would only open up 1 mil cap room for them but would entrench them into the worst conceivable spot - out of the playoffs but likely not bad enough to be assured of a top 3 pick.

No, if they're dealing Mcdavid it's rebuild time for them. And if you're rebuilding, taking a bet on a recent 1st overall and 2nd overall picks who are at a nadir in their value is a smart move.


Alternatively, in the very unlikely event that McDavid did demand a trade specifically here, and Edm obliged and wished to remain competitive, I bet they'd opt for Nylander over Marner, as it would give them breathing room to add the depth they lack.

They might ask for both and add to McDavid to make the money work. Both McD and Matty don't need elite wingers so it might work for the Leafs.

 

[Kurtz]

I think either Marner is being insanely over-valued in the last few pages, or McJesus and Drai severely undervalued.

A two-way playmaking winger is simply not worth anywhere near an Art-Ross centre of a similar age who makes $2.5m less/year.

It's not in the same stratosphere here. Imagine our response to Florida fans coming in here and offering Huberdeau+ for Matthews...

 

[zeke]

Why would Edmonton want Marner in return for Mcdavid? They're a fringe playoff team with Mcdavid - that swap would only open up 1 mil cap room for them but would entrench them into the worst conceivable spot - out of the playoffs but likely not bad enough to be assured of a top 3 pick.

No, if they're dealing Mcdavid it's rebuild time for them. And if you're rebuilding, taking a bet on a recent 1st overall and 2nd overall picks who are at a nadir in their value is a smart move.

Alternatively, in the very unlikely event that McDavid did demand a trade specifically here, and Edm obliged and wished to remain competitive, I bet they'd opt for Nylander over Marner, as it would give them breathing room to add the depth they lack.

A rebuilding team that chooses kakko and laffy over mitch is dumb.

And yes, obviously, it would be mitch + to get mcdavid.

Why would the oilers want mitch? Because they get a guaranteed elite talent back in the deal, in his young prime, and signed for years.

Would the oilers prefer Nylander? maybe. would they prefer Matthews? obviously.

 

[Kurtz]

They might ask for both and add to McDavid to make the money work. Both McD and Matty don't need elite wingers so it might work for the Leafs.

McJesus + Hyman for Nylander+Marner?

Now that's interesting. I'd do it from our side. JT goes to the wing.

 

[zeke]

I think either Marner is being insanely over-valued in the last few pages, or McJesus and Drai severely undervalued.

A two-way playmaking winger is simply not worth anywhere near an Art-Ross centre of a similar age who makes $2.5m less/year.

It's not in the same stratosphere here. Imagine our response to Florida fans coming in here and offering Huberdeau+ for Matthews...

Mitch is literally the best player I have seen offered up in any McDrai trade scenario speculated on anywhere.

its bizarre that you think Kakko and Lafreniere would be better adds.

 

[ToneDog]

I think either Marner is being insanely over-valued in the last few pages, or McJesus and Drai severely undervalued.

A two-way playmaking winger is simply not worth anywhere near an Art-Ross centre of a similar age who makes $2.5m less/year.

It's not in the same stratosphere here. Imagine our response to Florida fans coming in here and offering Huberdeau+ for Matthews...

You are 100% right and that is why I said both 16 and 88 but Leaf fans will scoff at that. Marner has to be included for the cap to work but he is owed much less than his cap hit which would be attractive to Katz.

 

[Kurtz]

Mitch is literally the best player I have seen offered up in any McDrai trade scenario speculated on anywhere.

its bizarre that you think Kakko and Lafreniere would be better adds.

I've already explained how an $11mil Marner-Mcdavid swap does absolutely nothing for Edmonton, and how the Rangers route is more sensible for a rebuild.

 

[zeke]

I've already explained how an $11mil Marner-Mcdavid swap does absolutely nothing for Edmonton, and how the Rangers route is more sensible for a rebuild.

and i already explained to you why that's silly.

Dumping McDavid for non-elite talent and capsapce would be an absolute disaster. and hilarious.

 

[Kurtz]

and i already explained to you why that's silly.

Dumping McDavid for non-elite talent and capsapce would be an absolute disaster. and hilarious.

I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree. I think it's rather premature to label Kakko and especially Lafreniere as non-elite talent, but our evaluations may differ.

 

[ToneDog]

and i already explained to you why that's silly.

Dumping McDavid for non-elite talent and capsapce would be an absolute disaster. and hilarious.

Leafs can offer elite talent but Rangers could offer potential elite talent plus. Guessing it would take the Rangers a package of Kakko, Laf, Schnieder, a 1st and another top prospect (possibly more). That makes Eichel look like a steal.

 

[Fogelhund]

Here is the bottom line. McDavid isn't moving from Edmonton, unless he demands to be traded. After July 1st, he has a full NMC, so he dictates where he's going.

I don't believe that he's going to demand a trade, but what do I know?

If he asks out, he has the rights, to dictate where he is going.

If somehow he went to Oilers management, and said, please trade me to Toronto, I want to play with Matthews... then they are pretty much either going to do that, or have a completely disgruntled player.

So, if Oilers brass phones Dubas, and says, McDavid wants to be traded to Toronto, what are you sending back...that's pretty much the way it's going to go. Whether it's what Edmonton wants, or if it's best for them... it's pretty much going to be Marner and a collection of lesser pieces/prospects/picks. (Mitch has no NMC until 2023) (Despite what others might think, we aren't moving Matty or Tavares)

No team, who has a star player dictate they want out, with a full NMC and control of their destiny, ever got maximum value.

First, it's doubtful McDavid would ask out, (though I wouldn't blame him at this point), second if he does, he controls where he goes, and the return won't be optimal to the Oilers.

 

[TMLAM34]

To Toronto: Connor Murphy + Marc Andre Fleury (50% retained)
To Chicago: Petr Mrazek + Travis Dermott + Nick Ritchie + Nicholas Abruzzese

To Toronto: Pavel Zacha
To New Jersey: Pierre Engvall, Justin Holl, 2023 2nd Round Draft Pick

To Toronto: Luke Schenn
To Vancouver: 2023 7th Round Draft Pick



Bunting - Matthews - Marner
Kerfoot - Tavares - Nylander
Zacha - Kampf - Kase
Mikheyev - Spezza - Simmonds
Clifford

OR

Zacha - Matthews - Nylander
Bunting - Tavares - Marner
Kerfoot - Kampf - Kase
Mikheyev - Spezza - Simmonds
Clifford

Rielly - Murphy
Muzzin - Brodie
Sandin - Liljegren
Schenn

Campbell - Fleury

 

[Buds17]

I'd imagine a centre to be the most enticing piece for Edmonton to initially look for in any hypothetical trading away of McDavid. Something closer to a rebuild is also likely to be the pending result of any such trade. That situation just doesn't quite resemble the four Cups won by the franchise prior to the Gretzky trade, not to mention they also wouldn't appear to be retaining a future HOF base of players akin to the likes of Messier, Kurri, Anderson, Fuhr and Lowe afterwards.

 

[4thline]

With Kral coming on, maybe Sandin’s more expendable.

I know it's reactionary and too early (both to give up on Sandin, and bank on Kral), but:

-Kral looks strong, and I wouldn't rule out him ending up the better NHLer, and is not our only LD prospect
-Sandin's skating is starting to worry me about his potential upside (mainly defensively)
-I don't see Sandin as a material upgrade on Dermott *right now*, and he isn't going to be much (if any) cheaper than Dermy next season
-Sandin might still have high high value to some GM due to the prospect shine
-Rielly his the guy on the left side through the majority of Sandin's prime

All that to me mean's that Sandin shouldn't be untouchable.

 

[showtime8]

Leafs can offer elite talent but Rangers could offer potential elite talent plus. Guessing it would take the Rangers a package of Kakko, Laf, Schnieder, a 1st and another top prospect (possibly more). That makes Eichel look like a steal.

I think this is Quantity over Quality for the most part.

In Marner, you're getting a guy that kills penalties, puts up points and plays in all situations. I don't think that Kakko or Lafreniere ever get up to Marner's level. Yes, they are still young, but could you ever see either Kakko or Lafreniere getting to the 90 point mark?

Schneider and Sandin are basically a wash based on what style of defenseman you're looking for.

But I think that Toronto could probably put together a similar package and it would make more sense.

 

[showtime8]

I know it's reactionary and too early (both to give up on Sandin, and bank on Kral), but:

-Kral looks strong, and I wouldn't rule out him ending up the better NHLer, and is not our only LD prospect
-Sandin's skating is starting to worry me about his potential upside (mainly defensively)
-I don't see Sandin as a material upgrade on Dermott *right now*, and he isn't going to be much (if any) cheaper than Dermy next season
-Sandin might still have high high value to some GM due to the prospect shine
-Rielly his the guy on the left side through the majority of Sandin's prime

All that to me mean's that Sandin shouldn't be untouchable.

Sandin is definitely not untouchable, but you need to get some sort of cost certainty from the other player coming back. Whether it's Chychryn or another defenseman out there with some term.

 

[zeke]

Leafs can offer elite talent but Rangers could offer potential elite talent plus. Guessing it would take the Rangers a package of Kakko, Laf, Schnieder, a 1st and another top prospect (possibly more). That makes Eichel look like a steal.

Marner + Sandin + 1sts is much better

 

[ULF_55]

Here is the bottom line. McDavid isn't moving from Edmonton, unless he demands to be traded. After July 1st, he has a full NMC, so he dictates where he's going.

I don't believe that he's going to demand a trade, but what do I know?

If he asks out, he has the rights, to dictate where he is going.

If somehow he went to Oilers management, and said, please trade me to Toronto, I want to play with Matthews... then they are pretty much either going to do that, or have a completely disgruntled player.

So, if Oilers brass phones Dubas, and says, McDavid wants to be traded to Toronto, what are you sending back...that's pretty much the way it's going to go. Whether it's what Edmonton wants, or if it's best for them... it's pretty much going to be Marner and a collection of lesser pieces/prospects/picks. (Mitch has no NMC until 2023) (Despite what others might think, we aren't moving Matty or Tavares)

No team, who has a star player dictate they want out, with a full NMC and control of their destiny, ever got maximum value.

First, it's doubtful McDavid would ask out, (though I wouldn't blame him at this point), second if he does, he controls where he goes, and the return won't be optimal to the Oilers.

I doubt Oilers take marner, a winger for McDavid.

They might entertain Matthews for McDavid.

And once McDavid waives for Toronto Oilers can trade the disgruntled to Toronto.

Not sure you can revoke your agreement once you've signed?

 

[Fogelhund]

Rangers likely can't do a deal for McDavid. They don't have the cap room, and anyone who they could move to create cap room, has a NMC. Who is waiving to go from NYR to Edmonton?

 

[Fogelhund]

I doubt Oilers take marner, a winger for McDavid.

They might entertain Matthews for McDavid.

And once McDavid waives for Toronto Oilers can trade the disgruntled to Toronto.

Not sure you can revoke your agreement once you've signed?

Under any scenario that McDavid asks to be traded to Toronto, it's so he can play with his buddy Matthews.

If Oilers phone Toronto, and ask to do a trade, and say no to Marner, we hang up the phone... it's that easy. There comes a point, where they really don't have a choice. Marner plus a package, or pound sand. Your guy wants out, you don't get to dictate the final return... you can negotiate, ask for more around that... but it is what it is.

If he wants out, they get the best package that's offered. If that's Marner, that's what they get. If McDavid's NMC is just us.... well, good luck getting more.