Speculation: Trade and Free Agency Talk - 2022-23 Edition - Postseason Success can't be a Myth!

[Obvious Fabertism]

If adding Kane while keeping greenway, Goligoski, Fleury or whoever still doesn’t make us a contender in your eyes, then why harp on about Fiala? You would have signed him and then immediately thrown out 3/7 years of his contract (and his likely prime years at that) with a team that you deem wouldn’t be able to contend.

 

[Wabit]

If you added Kane though are you really scared of anyone in West?


Wild win tonight they are only 5 points away from the 1 seed in conference, Saying the Wild are so far away from any team in the West is a little extreme IMO

I was talking more about the teams in the East being locked into the Playoffs. 6 of 8 teams have 10p on the 1st team out of the Playoffs, they are all 7p with 3-5 games in hand over the teams currently sitting in WC1 and WC2.

The Wild are sitting in WC2 right now with 2p on the first team out of the Playoffs, so a fringe Playoff team is a reasonable description imo.

 

[roon]

If you really want to take a shot this year(stupid but whatever) - Kane is probably a good bet....but I only throw a 2nd at him if I have a trade for Greenway lined up to replace it.

I just don't see why Kane would waive to come to MN. Guy wants to win another cup I'm sure and we aren't that team.

 

[Minnewildsota]

If adding Kane while keeping greenway, Goligoski, Fleury or whoever still doesn’t make us a contender in your eyes, then why harp on about Fiala? You would have signed him and then immediately thrown out 3/7 years of his contract (and his likely prime years at that) with a team that you deem wouldn’t be able to contend.

It’s best to try not to make sense of it.

 

[AKL]

If adding Kane while keeping greenway, Goligoski, Fleury or whoever still doesn’t make us a contender in your eyes, then why harp on about Fiala? You would have signed him and then immediately thrown out 3/7 years of his contract (and his likely prime years at that) with a team that you deem wouldn’t be able to contend.

"If you don't think all these washed up 35+ year olds make us a contender, why do you keep talking about the 26 year old first liner we just traded?"

Is that what you're asking me?

 

[Obvious Fabertism]

"If you don't think all these washed up 35+ year olds make us a contender, why do you keep talking about the 26 year old first liner we just traded?"

Is that what you're asking me?

I am asking why you think keeping Fiala, a worse player than Kane, and then also subtracting his cap hit worth of depth players, would somehow make us better. If the current team plus Kane isn’t good enough for you, Fiala being kept would just be a significantly worse version of the proposed team.

 

[Digitalbooya]

If you trade for Kane, you have to be damn sure he can turn “it” up. He’s looked like lackadaisical crap every time I watch him play.

 

[AKL]

I am asking why you think keeping Fiala, a worse player than Kane, and then also subtracting his cap hit worth of depth players, would somehow make us better. If the current team plus Kane isn’t good enough for you, Fiala being kept would just be a significantly worse version of the proposed team.

Fiala is a better player than Kane at this point in their careers.

He's also 8 years younger and signed for 6 more years after this.

I also said the only reason I'm open to trading for Kane is because it's Kane and not because I think it makes us a contender.

I trust I don't need to help you figure out the rest of this from here.

 

[Obvious Fabertism]

Fiala is a better player than Kane at this point in their careers.

Even if that is your opinion, from a cap perspective, do you think he is $8MM better than Kane? Because holding Fiala for the whole season would have cost us his full cap hit in depth players, adding Kane at the deadline does not require us to offload any players. .

 

[Digitalbooya]

I am asking why you think keeping Fiala, a worse player than Kane, and then also subtracting his cap hit worth of depth players, would somehow make us better. If the current team plus Kane isn’t good enough for you, Fiala being kept would just be a significantly worse version of the proposed team.

I think this is where the disconnect is. At least for this year. I’m not sure Kane is better than Fiala anymore. Is his production only down because of his injury/team situation? I’m not entirely sold either way.

 

[Wabit]

Even if that is your opinion, from a cap perspective, do you think he is $8MM better than Kane? Because holding Fiala for the whole season would have cost us his full cap hit in depth players, adding Kane at the deadline does not require us to offload any players. .

Considering we've had that ability to almost have Fiala at his full cap hit without making any other major than what were already made moves. Yes.

Don't sign Goli, don't trade for Reaves, don't take ROR's cap, and MN has $7.2m in cap space with a 21 man roster. I would have also have signed Fiala a year sooner (and less money like was the rumored ask) instead what he got this offseason. The cap works fine and dandy without any other moves other than letting Jost go via trade or waivers.

 

[AKL]

Even if that is your opinion, from a cap perspective, do you think he is $8MM better than Kane? Because holding Fiala for the whole season would have cost us his full cap hit in depth players, adding Kane at the deadline does not require us to offload any players. .

Holding Fiala for the whole season gets us Fiala for the whole season. Is that more valuable than Kane for 20 games? Obviously. If we had Fiala we wouldn't even be considering Kane. We'd also be in a better place in the standings right now.

I have no idea what you're trying to get at here. We're not a serious threat for a Cup either way. The value in having Fiala stretches beyond this season, whereas with Kane, it ends when the season does.

 

[Obvious Fabertism]

Holding Fiala for the whole season gets us Fiala for the whole season. Is that more valuable than Kane for 20 games? Obviously. If we had Fiala we wouldn't even be considering Kane. We'd also be in a better place in the standings right now.

I have no idea what you're trying to get at here. We're not a serious threat for a Cup either way. The value in having Fiala stretches beyond this season, whereas with Kane, it ends when the season does.

The point is making the best team for the playoffs, as long as you get in, it doesn’t matter what happens in the regular season. I don’t even think you would argue that Kane has been better able to translate his game to post season success than Fiala.

If we aren’t a threat for the cup either way, then why would you lock in a long term, high paying contract to a player that you don’t think you can win with? Especially when you think the worst years for that team will fall in that players prime?

 

[AKL]

The point is making the best team for the playoffs, as long as you get in, it doesn’t matter what happens in the regular season. I don’t even think you would argue that Kane has been better able to translate his game to post season success than Fiala.

If we aren’t a threat for the cup either way, then why would you lock in a long term, high paying contract to a player that you don’t think you can win with? Especially when you think the worst years for that team will fall in that players prime?

Because Fiala has four years left after the dead cap, and I believe we can win with Fiala here, just not these couple years.

But that's not a reflection on Fiala. I don't think we can win with Kaprizov here these couple years either.

Because I think about the future when I consider which moves to make, not just the current year at hand. If you don't, let me know, because that would be a major disconnect.

 

[Obvious Fabertism]

Because Fiala has four years left after the dead cap, and I believe we can win with Fiala here, just not these couple years.

But that's not a reflection on Fiala. I don't think we can win with Kaprizov here these couple years either.

Because I think about the future when I consider which moves to make, not just the current year at hand. If you don't, let me know, because that would be a major disconnect.

You are projecting a 30+ year old Fiala making $8MM per with another 3 years of playoff failures on his resume as a high value commodity and then saying I don’t think about the future…

 

[Wabit]

The point is making the best team for the playoffs, as long as you get in, it doesn’t matter what happens in the regular season. I don’t even think you would argue that Kane has been better able to translate his game to post season success than Fiala.

If we aren’t a threat for the cup either way, then why would you lock in a long term, high paying contract to a player that you don’t think you can win with? Especially when you think the worst years for that team will fall in that players prime?

Kane was great in the Playoffs in his prime. He's only been in one Playoffs since the 16-17 season. The weird Playin year. Fiala was also a ppg player in the those, and Fiala had more goals in 4 games than Kane had in 9 games.

At 34 years old I don't know if a not 100% Kane has that Playoff gamebreaker left in his game. I also don't know how long it will take Kane to mesh with the team when all he's ever known as a player is CHI.

 

[AKL]

You are projecting a 30+ year old Fiala making $8MM per with another 3 years of playoff failures on his resume as a high value commodity and then saying I don’t think about the future…

What? You know playoff failure isn't solely on Fiala right?

Fiala will be 29 years old when the dead cap is gone, and he's a first line/point per game winger. If you don't see value in that then I don't know what to tell you. I'm still not sure what your point is because you don't seem to be trying to make one.

As for your original question:

If adding Kane while keeping greenway, Goligoski, Fleury or whoever still doesn’t make us a contender in your eyes, then why harp on about Fiala?

There's no connection between these two, keeping Fiala was never about being a contender this year, and I'm not advocating for a tear-down rebuild so it's okay to have good young players signed long term.

 

[Wasted Talent]

You are projecting a 30+ year old Fiala making $8MM per with another 3 years of playoff failures on his resume as a high value commodity and then saying I don’t think about the future…

I personally wouldn't be that woried about having Fiala signed until he's 32 years old. That seems like the ideal time for a long term contract to expire, covering essentially all their best years.

I'd understand your point if it was a JT Miller situation but Fiala is still young.

 

[Digitalbooya]

I wonder if the Kane price of 2nd+not top prospect is for the teams that can take Kane at his full cap hit. I don’t think any other potential playoff team, aside from Buffalo if they make it, can make that work.

Buffalo’s TDL cap space is $80M. Wow!

 

[Wabit]

I wonder if the Kane price of 2nd+not top prospect is for the teams that can take Kane at his full cap hit. I don’t think any other potential playoff team, aside from Buffalo if they make it, can make that work.

Buffalo’s TDL cap space is $80M. Wow!

Stone (back) just went on LTIR for Vegas; which opens up a lot of space for them. No clue if/when he'll return this year. It seems like a VGK/TB move to LTIR Stone, only to get him back for the Playoffs. Nobody else on their LTIR is going to come off of it this year.

So $8.7m of LTIR space and they are carrying a 23 man roster right now, so that can open up $1.5-$2m with only 1 pressbox guy. FFS they have 4 goalies (1 on IR) on their roster currently. That's right on the nose for Kane at full price. Although I see no reason why CHI would have an issue retaining on Kane and his (prorated) $2.9m salary and they have 3 open retention spots still.

 

[AKL]

I wonder if the Kane price of 2nd+not top prospect is for the teams that can take Kane at his full cap hit. I don’t think any other potential playoff team, aside from Buffalo if they make it, can make that work.

Buffalo’s TDL cap space is $80M. Wow!

I think if it comes down to us or Buffalo, he probably chooses Buffalo (I would this year).

Kane and the Sabres could easily force that, especially since I think the Sabres can afford to miss out on him, and thus, be extremely patient in getting him.

 

[Bdub]

Surely even Guerin can’t be so dense as to not give Kap a talented offensive player to play with? Unless he doesn’t care if he leaves town, also?

Im sure kap wants to leave right now. Could get a nice return for him.

If adding Kane while keeping greenway, Goligoski, Fleury or whoever still doesn’t make us a contender in your eyes, then why harp on about Fiala? You would have signed him and then immediately thrown out 3/7 years of his contract (and his likely prime years at that) with a team that you deem wouldn’t be able to contend.

Dont think kane would waive to come here.

 

[Wabit]

I think if it comes down to us or Buffalo, he probably chooses Buffalo (I would this year).

Kane and the Sabres could easily force that, especially since I think the Sabres can afford to miss out on him, and thus, be extremely patient in getting him.

BUF is 4 points pack and has 6 games in hand over the WC1 and WC2 spots in the East. They really should buy now and not wait it out to take the best advantage of those games in hand.

 

[AKL]

BUF is 4 points pack and has 6 games in hand over the WC1 and WC2 spots in the East. They really should buy now and not wait it out to take the best advantage of those games in hand.

I don't disagree, but in order to buy now, you also have to have a seller sell now, and I think in the case of Kane, the Blackhawks won't be super eager sellers unless they get an overpayment now.

 

[Wabit]

I don't disagree, but in order to buy now, you also have to have a seller sell now, and I think in the case of Kane, the Blackhawks won't be super eager sellers unless they get an overpayment now.

I think the Hawks would sell now on Kane if they had a buyer on his list of teams he'd waive his NMC. I don't think they have a list from Kane yet. Dump him before he changes his mind, gets injured, buyer backsout/moves on, or whatever. Plus it make the team worse to help them in their tank.