Speculation: Trade and Free Agency Talk - 2022-23 Edition - Postseason Success can't be a Myth!

[Minnewildsota]

Ok, but they're also the worst team in the league and tanking the season

Just posting as there may be some correlation, there may not be.

So leaguevud down 22% and Hawks down 36% in tv viewings =all the more reason Bettman us gonna "fix" the lotto to give Hawjs Bedard...a healthy Chicago marjetvis goid for thecNHK.. a down big Chicago market =very bad for the NHL kindergartners can figure this out.. Otger teans sports media already have suspicions that Bedard lands in Chicago to save the situation...the NHL wants eyeballs on Bedard ...are nit gonna getvthatvifvhevisvin CBJ or ANH or Arizona..and noby saying up late firxSJ games either..And having him in VAN with McD in EDM is ludicrous to grow game in U.S...No Chicago the logical solution though I guess you could also accept Detroit as a landing spot for Bedard too..

User states this, doesn't post any evidence of it but it's certainly possible.

 

[Digitalbooya]

I would like a refresher on who the top prospects in the draft are, after Bedard. I think it's unlikely that we qualify for the playoffs, so we could be picking between, say, 13-16. How far down the list do the good guys go?

I hope Oliver Moore is there for us if we don’t make the playoffs.

 

[thestonedkoala]

Can you give examples of GMBG doing this?

Honestly, Marcus Johansson for Eric Staal, Ryan Reaves for a 5th (though who cares about a 5th), Dmitry Kulikov for futures (had to dump him to get cap relief), Nicolas Deslauriers for a 3rd

 

[Minnewildsota]

Honestly, Marcus Johansson for Eric Staal, Ryan Reaves for a 5th (though who cares about a 5th), Dmitry Kulikov for futures (had to dump him to get cap relief), Nicolas Deslauriers for a 3rd

Staal was absolutely nothing after he left here. So that trade was a wash

Agreed. 5th is a nothing burger

Kulikov was an unfortunate cap loss

A 3rd is not nothing, but still a long shot to hit the NHL.

 

[thestonedkoala]

Staal was absolutely nothing after he left here. So that trade was a wash

Agreed. 5th is a nothing burger

Kulikov was an unfortunate cap loss

A 3rd is not nothing, but still a long shot to hit the NHL.

Not really, Staal could have been good trade fodder at the deadline or even before then.

5th could be a Kaprizov though. Reaves does really nothing except 'improve' the locker room and make them a blah team to an okay team. It was an unnecessary trade.

Kulikov could have been a good trade fodder and really didn't need to be traded when everything is said and done. He had some decent games.

A 3rd is a guy like Hunt or Beckman. Deslauries was a terrible trade.

These things add up as well.

 

[Bazeek]

Not really, Staal could have been good trade fodder at the deadline or even before then.

5th could be a Kaprizov though. Reaves does really nothing except 'improve' the locker room and make them a blah team to an okay team. It was an unnecessary trade.

Kulikov could have been a good trade fodder and really didn't need to be traded when everything is said and done. He had some decent games.

A 3rd is a guy like Hunt or Beckman. Deslauries was a terrible trade.

These things add up as well.

Most of this is just the "well a 7th could be Zetterberg" game. Overall it comes off more as praising with faint damnation.

 

[Minnewildsota]

Not really, Staal could have been good trade fodder at the deadline or even before then.

5th could be a Kaprizov though. Reaves does really nothing except 'improve' the locker room and make them a blah team to an okay team. It was an unnecessary trade.

Kulikov could have been a good trade fodder and really didn't need to be traded when everything is said and done. He had some decent games.

A 3rd is a guy like Hunt or Beckman. Deslauries was a terrible trade.

These things add up as well.

If that's the case, we should trade out of the first round for as many 5th round picks as we can. I mean, We could have 32 Kaprisovs by that logic.

 

[thestonedkoala]

Most of this is just the "well a 7th could be Zetterberg" game. Overall it comes off more as praising with faint damnation.

Some yes, some no. I mean if they trade Reaves at the deadline for a 3rd round pick or package him for a prospect or something it'd be a good trade. But if they traded for him just for him to walk, it really is just like throwing away a 5th round pick.

 

[AKL]

Most of this is just the "well a 7th could be Zetterberg" game. Overall it comes off more as praising with faint damnation.

Well since we're not a team that gets talent through high picks, we're pretty much forced to play the "a 7th could be Zetterberg" game. If you're not picking top 5-10 for your talent, you can't also trade picks away like Pokemon cards, even if they're late picks, because you need more darts to make up for the fact that you're not getting high picks, right? Otherwise, you're just relying on your guys to never miss on the 4-5 picks they keep every year.

 

[MuckOG]

5th could be a Kaprizov though. Reaves does really nothing except 'improve' the locker room and make them a blah team to an okay team. It was an unnecessary trade.

And the powerball ticket I bought today might be a winner.

Having Reaves on the roster means other teams are less likely to play rough with our skill guys.

 

[thestonedkoala]

And the powerball ticket I bought today might be a winner.

Having Reaves on the roster means other teams are less likely to play rough with our skill guys.

Konopka and Powe says hi. As I said if we trade Reaves at the deadline then it'll be a good trade.

 

[MuckOG]

Konopka and Powe says hi. As I said if we trade Reaves at the deadline then it'll be a good trade.

Are you really going back to players on the roster from over 10 years ago to make a point? And I'm not really sure what your point is.

 

[Minnewildsota]

Are you really going back to players on the roster from over 10 years ago to make a point? And I'm not really sure what you're point is.

That’s all fifth rounders are Kaprisov. Duh.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Well since we're not a team that gets talent through high picks, we're pretty much forced to play the "a 7th could be Zetterberg" game. If you're not picking top 5-10 for your talent, you can't also trade picks away like Pokemon cards, even if they're late picks, because you need more darts to make up for the fact that you're not getting high picks, right? Otherwise, you're just relying on your guys to never miss on the 4-5 picks they keep every year.

This is well stated.

 

[Bazeek]

Well since we're not a team that gets talent through high picks, we're pretty much forced to play the "a 7th could be Zetterberg" game. If you're not picking top 5-10 for your talent, you can't also trade picks away like Pokemon cards, even if they're late picks, because you need more darts to make up for the fact that you're not getting high picks, right? Otherwise, you're just relying on your guys to never miss on the 4-5 picks they keep every year.

I'm not dismissing it as a criticism, I just don't think it's one that carries much weight.

I think Fletcher's penchant for trading away 2nds is a good example of how moves that can be justified in a vacuum might add up to a more serious problem in aggregate. Guerin trading away some mid-to-late round picks could add up in a similar way, but going by the depth in the prospect pool right now I don't think that's a strong line of attack.

GMs are just never going to go 100% in one direction. Even teams that are in full rebuild mode are occassionally going to give up 5th round picks to plug holes. As long as the corrosion doesn't build up in the pipeline I don't think it's a big deal.

 

[BuiumSaveUs]

Hey Judd, when do you think the forward strength in this draft tails off, and can you compare it to 2019, forward wise? I’m having a hard time figuring out how good guys like Dvorsky, Heidt, Sale, and Wood are relative to other years.I mean, are they even the equal of Yurov and Ohgren as prospects?

Yeah I haven’t really dug into the draft too much outside of the top guys. I know in terms of middle of the round guys though players like Danielsson, Leonard, and Ritchie have fans in the league. I personally love Moore, but I don’t know how they stack up to the middle of previous season. I’d say the teens in 2019 and 202 are forsure better, and maybe the more recent drafts will look that way too as time goes on.

 

[Bazeek]

Yeah I haven’t really dug into the draft too much outside of the top guys. I know in terms of middle of the round guys though players like Danielsson, Leonard, and Ritchie have fans in the league. I personally love Moore, but I don’t know how they stack up to the middle of previous season. I’d say the teens in 2019 and 202 are forsure better, and maybe the more recent drafts will look that way too as time goes on.

I'm still ticked that we passed on Clement of Alexandria.

 

[DeagleJenkins]

Barring key injries, how exactly does a team have a "down year or there" on purpose? The only way to do that is: a) get the coaching staff to intentionally tank games by playing sub-par players or b) trade away talented players for futures.

There is no way that players like Kaprizov, Ek, Boldy, et al will sign on to intentionally losing games. More than likely, they would demand a trade to a team that is actually trying to compete. At that point, we basically turn into the Arizona Coyotes. How does that revive interest among the fanbase?

It's certainly possible that the Wild have a down year by simply not playing well enough to make the playoffs. But at worst, this is a bubble team, so unless this team goes on a major losing streak (possible), this team will not be picking in the top 10 in this draft.

We already traded away a very talented player for futures.

 

[roon]

Trade Kaprizov and then watch what happens to the fan base. Especially all those kids wearing #97 jerseys. He's the best, and most popular, player this franchise has ever had. Trading him because his value is "sky high" and "we lack a center to properly utilize him" (when he is a 100+ point/season player) would result in the ticket buying fanbase revolting and this team would become the laughingstock of the NHL.

Regarding that center to play with Kaprizov, I think Rossi could be that center beginning next season.

All this fanbase talk is way over blown. Im not sure the Wild have ever had a home game that was less than 80% capacity. Hell - they sell out more often than not regardless of how they are playing.


Sure Merch might be down - but TV deals are multi year contracts...so that doesnt fluctuate.

Also - Fan's are so fickle that the moment they start to Ice a winner, they will come back in droves pretending like they have been there the entire time....in true Minnesota fashion.

 

[AKL]

I'm not dismissing it as a criticism, I just don't think it's one that carries much weight.

I think Fletcher's penchant for trading away 2nds is a good example of how moves that can be justified in a vacuum might add up to a more serious problem in aggregate. Guerin trading away some mid-to-late round picks could add up in a similar way, but going by the depth in the prospect pool right now I don't think that's a strong line of attack.

GMs are just never going to go 100% in one direction. Even teams that are in full rebuild mode are occassionally going to give up 5th round picks to plug holes. As long as the corrosion doesn't build up in the pipeline I don't think it's a big deal.

That prospect pool means nothing until they're contributing in the NHL. We saw what happened last time we had a highly rated prospect pool. It turned into some quality middle of the lineup players and that's it.

Start trading away those pieces now, and you won't have much left after the current group makes the NHL. If the current group all hit their ceiling and become what we hope they can be, great, no problem, not really that big of a deal. If they start missing their potential like the last group did... well it's really easy to see how history can repeat itself, then we're in for another 10 years same as the last.

That's why I don't like to see draft picks getting traded "willy-nilly" until those pieces are set on the roster. Until guys like Rossi, Khusnutdinov, Yurov, Wallstedt, Faber, Lambos, etc (or whoever they may be, if those guys miss) are on the roster contributing nightly, we're not done building through the draft.

 

[Bazeek]

That prospect pool means nothing until they're contributing in the NHL. We saw what happened last time we had a highly rated prospect pool. It turned into some quality middle of the lineup players and that's it.

Start trading away those pieces now, and you won't have much left after the current group makes the NHL. If the current group all hit their ceiling and become what we hope they can be, great, no problem, not really that big of a deal. If they start missing their potential like the last group did... well it's really easy to see how history can repeat itself, then we're in for another 10 years same as the last.

That's why I don't like to see draft picks getting traded "willy-nilly" until those pieces are set on the roster. Until guys like Rossi, Khusnutdinov, Yurov, Wallstedt, Faber, Lambos, etc (or whoever they may be, if those guys miss) are on the roster contributing nightly, we're not done building through the draft.

Like I said, it's more a question of scale. I don't like the Reaves or Deslauriers acquisitions, but looking at them as indications of a troubling trend? I don't buy that.

Frankly this whole debate seems to be a function of having nothing better to discuss in a season whether there isn't enough cap space for something interesting to happen.

 

[AKL]

Like I said, it's more a question of scale. I don't like the Reaves or Deslauriers acquisitions, but looking at them as indications of a troubling trend? I don't buy that.

Well it's a trend if it keeps happening, so we'll see how the next three weeks go.

2021 he didn't do anything
2022 he traded a 3rd for Deslauriers, 5th for Middleton and a 2nd for Fleury, but he also got a 2nd for McBain
2023 so far has traded a 5th for Reaves, will he trade his 2nd for a guy like Schenn? Will he try to make other moves with his picks or prospects? We'll see.

Willing to give him somewhat the benefit of the doubt right now, because in 202 we had 5 draft picks, in 2021 we had 7, and in 2022 we had 8, plus he's managed to have two 1sts in each of the last two drafts. So it seems like even if he does trade away some picks, he finds a way to get some back (even if they're not through preferable methods like the F word). But we're running out of ways to recoup 1sts and 2nds, especially if he opts to hang on to guys like Dumba and whoever else until they walk.

Frankly this whole debate seems to be a function of having nothing better to discuss in a season whether there isn't enough cap space for something interesting to happen.

For me it's a function of not wanting to see us waste draft capital on players who don't move the needle until our NHL roster is set with the core group we hope to compete with. I mean I'm not gonna claim that trading a 5th for Reaves or a 3rd for Deslauriers will cost us one or more Cups down the line, but I do think it's more shrewd to not waste those picks, nevertheless.

 

[Bazeek]

Well a trend is if it keeps happening, so we'll see how the next three weeks go.

2021 he didn't do anything
2022 he traded a 3rd for Deslauriers, 5th for Middleton and a 2nd for Fleury, but he also got a 2nd for McBain
2023 so far has traded a 5th for Reaves, will he trade his 2nd for a guy like Schenn? Will he try to make other moves with his picks or prospects? We'll see.

Willing to give him somewhat the benefit of the doubt right now, because in 202 we had 5 draft picks, in 2021 we had 7, and in 2022 we had 8, plus he's managed to have two 1sts in each of the last two drafts. So it seems like even if he does trade away some picks, he finds a way to get some back (even if they're not through preferable methods like the F word). But we're running out of ways to recoup 1sts and 2nds, especially if he opts to hang on to guys like Dumba and whoever else until they walk.



For me it's a function of not wanting to see us waste draft capital on players who don't move the needle until our NHL roster is set with the core group we hope to compete with.

I guess if I had to lay out where my own comfort zone is right now, it's something like this:

In any given draft, we should have...
A pick in the 1st
A pick in the 2nd
At least 2 picks in rounds 3-5
At least one pick in rounds 6-7

Ideally we have one or more in each and avoid giving up multiple picks in consecutive drafts. But in general I think losing or adding the occasional mid-to-late pick is just the cost of doing business in the NHL. For the most part Guerin's either met or exceeded that baseline, still has most of our picks for the next few drafts, and seems unlikely to start spending them recklessly. So it's hard for me to be too critical or anxious about that.

Overall I agree that they shouldn't be spending real assets to make short term improvements, especially this season. They've had a few things go right, but I think more things have gone wrong, and it looks like a bad investment. I'd prefer they move Dumba for something, but if the most they can pull is a 3rd I can forgive them for just hanging onto him. Ditto with Boeser: it'd actually be nice to maybe give Boldy a linemate, but if he costs more than a 3rd why bother? The juice ain't worth the squeeze.

 

[mezcal]

Friedman reporting the wild may be interested in JVR. Good Lord, a CENTER Billy.

 

[Bazeek]

Friedman reporting the wild may be interested in JVR. Good Lord, a CENTER Billy.

At least he's an expiring contract.

That said, knock it off, Bill.