Speculation: Trade and Free Agency Talk - 2022-23 Edition - Postseason Success can't be a Myth!

[Dr Jan Itor]

Yes, teams are built through the draft. But are you one of those suggesting that we tank during Kaprizov's prime years in the hope that we can build a contender in 5-7 years? If that's the case, why aren't you just proposing that we trade #97 right now and really go for the tank?

It wasn't an out-of-line conversation to have, starting at the 2022 draft, which we obviously can't do anything about anymore. It's still not an out-of-line conversation to have, considering his contract situation.

 

[thestonedkoala]

Wait... Ron Francis was 38 years old in '02. Rod Brind'Amour was 31 and not playing for his draft team. Jeff O'Neill (25) was the only one that makes sense for your argument, a 5th overall pick 8 years earlier. I'm sure I'll agree with plenty of your choices here, but this is a bad start.

Rod Brind'Amour was part of a long chain of trades that started with Chris Pronger - he came to the Canes because the Canes/Whalers were bad and they had talent they could trade. Whalers traded the 6th overall pick to move up to select Pronger. Pronger than was traded for Shanahan. Shanny was traded for Primeau, Coffey and a 1st. Primeau was traded for Rod Brind'Amour.

This trade was partly facilitated by the fact that the Whalers/Canes sucked that they could trade guys like Shanny and Pronger. The Whalers/Canes missed 6 years of playoffs and then made it, then were out. But they made smart trades to acquire talent. It wasn't just a hot goalie.

They also grabbed Tanabe by not making the playoffs. Cole was a high third round pick.

Flames didn't draft Iginla. They were certainly bad for a long time, but didn't get good from drafting top talent

They got Iginla because they were bad and decided to go for the future. I didn't even go into the trades of top picks like Derek Morris (13th overall) and they got Drury and Yelle, who were big for their playoff run. Not to mention Conroy who they got for Stillman (13th overall pick)

. The names they drafted in the first round in their playoff-less years were Daniel Tkaczuk, Rico Fata, Oleg Saprykin, Brent Krahn, Chuck Kobasew, Eric Nystrom, and finally, mercifully, Dion Phaneuf. Worth noting, Dion Phaneuf didn't play in the '04 playoffs. If anything, that string of picks is a cautionary tale about tanking.

You forgot Stillman who turned into Conroy and Morris who turned into Drury and Yelle. Why you dog Saprykin? He was pretty decent. Kobasew was a non-lottery pick.

'06 Canes and Oilers I can largely agree on.

Seguin was a only small contribution to that team at that time, and Chara wasn't their draft pick. On top of that, he was highly paid.

Seguin was actually a pretty large contributor to the season. He led the team in points.

I'm gonna go ahead and stop here because there seems to be a theme. You seem to be saying that having ANY high pick, whether drafted by the team or not, regardless of age, is enough. Ok, the Wild have MAF. Following that logic, they don't need to tank anymore because they've already got a 1st overall. Maybe I'm being unfair, am I picking up the wrong lesson from your reply?

You are; there is a lot more than just signing a high draft pick. A lot of these teams traded and moved guys around to build a team. For example, Jost for Sturm. Sturm wasn't instrumental in the Colorado's win but he played his part and gave them depth which Jost didn't. A lot of these teams utilized their high draft picks to either build up depth or acquire different type of talent that was also high draft picks. A good example is the Pronger to Brind'Amour trade. This is something that Minnesota has never really done nor have they had the talent to do so. I think the last time they traded a high draft pick was uh Sheppard? Oh wait no Granlund - and then we turned that into Ohgren and Faber. We'll see how that'll turn out.

Also some of these teams were rebuilding and moved veterans that wouldn't contribute. For example, the Iginla trade. Nieuwendyk played 9 seasons with the Flames before being moved to the Stars for Iginla. When was the last time Minnesota ever moved a long term veteran? This would be like if Minnesota moved Koivu for Kevin Fiala (sort of kind of).

The thing is Minnesota hasn't shown their ability to make trades except in the Fenton era. The Guerin era is still up in the air.

Where in my post did I say that these teams didn't have any players who were picked high in the draft? I said these teams weren't considered contenders. They rode a hot goalie, made a smart trade, found value outside of the top 5 picks in the draft.

Except they had high draft picks. They may have found value but those top 5/10 picks were extremely valuable. You can't just ride a hot goaltender. You think that St. Louis would have won without Pietroangelo or Tarasenko?

Your response doesn't even come close to getting the point. These teams weren't built in any way by tanking.

Yes - yes, they were. You are just looking at the players and not realizing a lot of them were build with shrewd high draft pick players. Where did Pronger come from? Drury? Yelle? A lot of these teams were built through trading former top picks.

Ales Hemsky was the result of a tankjob? Jesus.

You also missed the fact they had Smyth. Hemsky wasn't a tank job, but Edmonton didn't make the playoffs and he was a high draft pick.

They traded their starting goaltender (Tommy Salo) for Tom Gilbert that season as well.

Ultimately, Minnesota hasn't shown the aggressiveness of these teams you listed. You say the rode a hot goaltender (Gus), made a smart trade (uhhh), found value outside the top 5 picks (not really they didn't)

 

[BuiumSaveUs]

It’s probably stupid in a sense, but if Vancouver has to trade Pettersson some point coming up, am I crazy to say I’d move Kaprizov for him? He’s younger and a center. Doesn’t have the same type of offensive ceiling probably, but I’d also feel pretty comfortable giving him an 8 year extension after next season. Not saying I don’t want to give Kaprizov one when he’s 29, but if we’re being realistic about when this team can actually compete, I think Peterson probably fits this window a bit better, especially considering our u23 pool is pretty strong in terms of wings but not centers.. Just a thought.

 

[Bdub]

Sell them all including kap and boldy. This team will still smell after the buyouts.

 

[f7ben]

Sell them all including kap and boldy. This team will still smell after the buyouts.

If Billy and the Cop are here you’re probably 100% right.

 

[DeagleJenkins]

It’s probably stupid in a sense, but if Vancouver has to trade Pettersson some point coming up, am I crazy to say I’d move Kaprizov for him? He’s younger and a center. Doesn’t have the same type of offensive ceiling probably, but I’d also feel pretty comfortable giving him an 8 year extension after next season. Not saying I don’t want to give Kaprizov one when he’s 29, but if we’re being realistic about when this team can actually compete, I think Peterson probably fits this window a bit better, especially considering our u23 pool is pretty strong in terms of wings but not centers.. Just a thought.

I like the idea. If we are going to burn it down and aim for 3 years down the road, Trade him for a high end C prospect with youth on their side.

 

[57special]

It’s probably stupid in a sense, but if Vancouver has to trade Pettersson some point coming up, am I crazy to say I’d move Kaprizov for him? He’s younger and a center. Doesn’t have the same type of offensive ceiling probably, but I’d also feel pretty comfortable giving him an 8 year extension after next season. Not saying I don’t want to give Kaprizov one when he’s 29, but if we’re being realistic about when this team can actually compete, I think Peterson probably fits this window a bit better, especially considering our u23 pool is pretty strong in terms of wings but not centers.. Just a thought.

Peterson is nowhere near the player Kap is. Kap is something special.

Sell them all including kap and boldy. This team will still smell after the buyouts.

Huh? To what point….so we can get draft picks, that might, if we are really lucky, turn out to be as good in 4-5 years?

 

[Digitalbooya]

It’s probably stupid in a sense, but if Vancouver has to trade Pettersson some point coming up, am I crazy to say I’d move Kaprizov for him? He’s younger and a center. Doesn’t have the same type of offensive ceiling probably, but I’d also feel pretty comfortable giving him an 8 year extension after next season. Not saying I don’t want to give Kaprizov one when he’s 29, but if we’re being realistic about when this team can actually compete, I think Peterson probably fits this window a bit better, especially considering our u23 pool is pretty strong in terms of wings but not centers.. Just a thought.

I’d rather pay the Eichel-esque package for him.

Greenway+Rossi+1st+Lambos

Then trade Foligno/Middleton/Merill for picks to get some cap relief.

24-25
Kap-Pettersson-Khusnutdinov
Boldy-Eriksson Ek-Walker
Duhaime-Gaudreau-Hartman
Shaw-Dewar-Swaney

Brodin-Faber
Hunt-Spurgeon
O’Rourke-Addison

Wallstedt
Gus

Yurov, Ohgren, Haight, Peart, Bankier, Beckman, and Spacek still in the wings

 

[thestonedkoala]

I’d rather pay the Eichel-esque package for him.

Greenway+Rossi+1st+Lambos

Then trade Foligno/Middleton/Merill for picks to get some cap relief.

24-25
Kap-Pettersson-Khusnutdinov
Boldy-Eriksson Ek-Walker
Duhaime-Gaudreau-Hartman
Shaw-Dewar-Swaney

Brodin-Faber
Hunt-Spurgeon
O’Rourke-Addison

Wallstedt
Gus

Yurov, Ohgren, Haight, Peart, Bankier, Beckman, and Spacek still in the wings

That defense is suspect as hell.

 

[57special]

Team this year v last year;

- first line is worse, as is Steel isn’t close to being as Hartman was.

- GREEF is worse, partially due to performance, partially due to injury. Now broken up.

- Boldy line is way worse due to Fiala being gone. Rossi was a non factor when he played.

- 4th line…. Hard to say. If they continue to play Reaves regularly then it’ll be a wash at best

- Spurgeon and Middleton. A wash, for me. I think,Spurge is a bit better, Middleton worse, but, about the same.

- Dumba and Brodin. Same…maybe a bit worse because Brodin isn’t scoring as much, Dumba was briefly benched for poor play.

- Merrill and Addison. Maybe worse, but similar. Goligoski isn’t great, but I’ll take a rested Goligoski over those two, a least some games.

- goalies. Better. After a rocky start, Gus has been great.

- special teams. WAY better. They, and the tending, are the what is keeping this team afloat and in the playoffs.

 

[StateofCelly]

That defense is suspect as hell.

If you're starting that 6 tomorrow then sure but the same 6 guys could look a lot different in 2 years time... for better or for worse.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

That defense is suspect as hell.

The cost of our #1 center no longer being suspect as hell. I'll take it.

 

[BuiumSaveUs]

I’d rather pay the Eichel-esque package for him.

Greenway+Rossi+1st+Lambos

Then trade Foligno/Middleton/Merill for picks to get some cap relief.

24-25
Kap-Pettersson-Khusnutdinov
Boldy-Eriksson Ek-Walker
Duhaime-Gaudreau-Hartman
Shaw-Dewar-Swaney

Brodin-Faber
Hunt-Spurgeon
O’Rourke-Addison

Wallstedt
Gus

Yurov, Ohgren, Haight, Peart, Bankier, Beckman, and Spacek still in the wings

Yeah I would prefer that as well, was more of a “would you trade Kaprizov” scenario, than a this is the way.

 

[thestonedkoala]

The cost of our #1 center no longer being suspect as hell. I'll take it.

I wonder if they could move Spurgeon/Brodin and upgrade their defense?

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

I wonder if they could move Spurgeon/Brodin and upgrade their defense?

Sounds unlikely, in a couple different ways.

 

[Digitalbooya]

That defense is suspect as hell.

Our defense is already suspect as hell.

Yeah I would prefer that as well, was more of a “would you trade Kaprizov” scenario, than a this is the way.

I wouldn’t trade Kaprizov unless he wants out going into his final year. My goal is to build a team here that makes it an easy choice for him to stay.

 

[57special]

I wonder if they could move Spurgeon/Brodin and upgrade their defense?

You have the weirdest ideas.

 

[thestonedkoala]

You have the weirdest ideas.

Spurgeon and Brodin aren't getting any younger and they eat up a ton of cap space

 

[57special]

Spurgeon and Brodin aren't getting any younger and they eat up a ton of cap space

Pitch me your idea, keeping in mind that both Dmen have NMC’s, so the destination would have to be somewhere appealing. Both Dmen, especially Spurgeon, have put down roots here.

Both Dmen are playing very well. Trading them is likely to make the D worse in the short term not better. The long term is always uncertain in the NHL.

 

[thestonedkoala]

Pitch me your idea, keeping in mind that both Dmen have NMC’s, so the destination would have to be somewhere appealing. Both Dmen, especially Spurgeon, have put down roots here.

Both Dmen are playing very well. Trading them is likely to make the D worse in the short term not better. The long term is always uncertain in the NHL.

Spurgeon will have a modified NTC in a few years and Brodin won't have any as well. I'd replace Spurgeon with Hunt and Brodin with Faber.

Maybe trade Spurgeon to Edmonton where he's from.

When Spurgeon has a modified trade he'll be 35.

 

[Digitalbooya]

Pitch me your idea, keeping in mind that both Dmen have NMC’s, so the destination would have to be somewhere appealing. Both Dmen, especially Spurgeon, have put down roots here.

Both Dmen are playing very well. Trading them is likely to make the D worse in the short term not better. The long term is always uncertain in the NHL.

Spurgeon’s NMC turns into a 10 team NTC on July 1st of 2024.

Brodin’s NMC drops in the summer of 2025.

 

[57special]

Spurgeon’s NMC turns into a 10 team NTC on July 1st of 2024.

Brodin’s NMC drops in the summer of 2025.

So let’s talk again in 1 1/2 - 2 1/2 years.

The idea that Hunt and Faber will come in and be as good, or an upgrade, is ludicrous at this point in time.

 

[keppel146]

That defense is suspect as hell.

we could always sign a FA

 

[thestonedkoala]

we could always sign a FA

With what money?

 

[keppel146]

With what money?

I’m meaning after the buyouts.