Trade and Free Agency Discussion Thread - Don't Expect More Augmenting

[Dreakmur]

What? Dermott is not very good and struggles sometimes as a bottom pair D. We don't know what Lehtonen is. Perhaps he's ok, but let's wait a bit before crowning him. Holl is not good enough to play in the top 4. Once Muzzin went down it was apparent. He's a 5-6, but not a top 4. I think I'll take Bogosian's 644 games of experience over some of the players your mentioning.

We should probably just line up some pylons to see who skates through them the best. Those guys win hockey games!

 

[SeaOfBlue]

We should probably just line up some pylons to see who skates through them the best. Those guys win hockey games!

Looks like everything I said went right over your head.

At least you did not try to make something up to prove a point, so I will take that as a win!

 

[Dreakmur]

Looks like everything I said went right over your head.

At least you did not try to make something up to prove a point, so I will take that as a win!

No, you convinced me. We don’t need grit or toughness or hockey sense or team play. Just more skill. Let’s go!

 

[Crazy Monkey]

He'd probably just sign a one year deal so that wouldn't make a difference in the division with Boston next year.

Nah- he'd suddenly become the most penalized defenseman in the league

 

[SeaOfBlue]

No, you convinced me. We don’t need grit or toughness or hockey sense or team play. Just more skill. Let’s go!

Don't put words in my mouth, especially not stupid ones. Not even remotely close to what I said, so either you can't understand a simple concept or you did not even bother reading my posts in their entirety.

I will respect your opinion, but if you want to be a troll and completely ignore what I said, do it on the main board or one of the dozens of troll threads on the Leafs board. Don't waste my time.

 

[Dreakmur]

Don't put words in my mouth, especially not stupid ones. Not even remotely close to what I said, so either you can't understand a simple concept or you did not even bother reading my posts in their entirety.

I will respect your opinion, but if you want to be a troll and completely ignore what I said, do it on the main board or one of the dozens of troll threads on the Leafs board. Don't waste my time.

It’s fair to say I exaggerated your position. Not particularly accurate to say I’m not remotely close to it.

I said that Bogosian may not be one of the top 6 defenseman, but he brings something that the team really needs. I said he should dress ahead of guys who may be better than him because the element he brings helps the team more than a more skilled player. You disagree.

 

[LeafChief]

Maybe we should get back to talking about Leafs news rather than how some guy sets the balance on his men's league roster.

 

[Cor]

Thinking about it, I think we will run 7D a lot this year.

Hyman - Matthews - Nylander
Vesey? - Tavares - Marner
Mikheyev - Kerfoot - Simmonds?
Thornton - Spezza

Rielly - Brodie
Muzzin - Dermott
Lehtonen - Holl
Bogosian

You’ll see Sandin and maybe even Liljegren called up to hop in for some games here and there as well, and obviously injuries will happen.

Taxi Squad probably;
Sandin
Liljegren
Dell
Anderson
Barabanov
Engvall

 

[ottomaddox]

Clearly you need to watch Dermott a lot more closely, because that is absolutely not true.

I hope he plays better, and I hope he proves me wrong. He did not have that good a year, a nor play-in series. I don't think he is bad, but he certainly doesn't instill confidence if we have Rielly, Muzzin, or Brodie go down. I mean what is his identity? What does he do really well? Score, defend, playmaking, the power play, or penalty killing? You could at least put Bogo/Holl in a couple of those categories where you couldn't put Dermott there.

"Clearly" LOL.

Yeah there is just so much consensus on Dermott! He's up there with Rielly "clearly".

No.

 

[hockeynorth]

I hope he plays better, and I hope he proves me wrong. He did not have that good a year, a nor play-in series. I don't think he is bad, but he certainly doesn't instill confidence if we have Rielly, Muzzin, or Brodie go down. I mean what is his identity? What does he do really well? Score, defend, playmaking, the power play, or penalty killing? You could at least put Bogo/Holl in a couple of those categories where you couldn't put Dermott there.

"Clearly" LOL.

Yeah there is just so much consensus on Dermott! He's up there with Rielly "clearly".

No.

If we’re being honest, losing any of a teams top 3 D would be bad

 

[ottomaddox]

If we’re being honest, losing any of a teams top 3 D would be bad

Yes, but that's not my point.

 

[ACC1224]

I expect Dermott to be considered top 4 by the end of season.

 

[Fogelhund]

I hope he plays better, and I hope he proves me wrong. He did not have that good a year, a nor play-in series. I don't think he is bad, but he certainly doesn't instill confidence if we have Rielly, Muzzin, or Brodie go down. I mean what is his identity? What does he do really well? Score, defend, playmaking, the power play, or penalty killing? You could at least put Bogo/Holl in a couple of those categories where you couldn't put Dermott there.

"Clearly" LOL.

Yeah there is just so much consensus on Dermott! He's up there with Rielly "clearly".

No.

Yet, Dermott's best stretch last year, was when Muzzin and Rielly went down. He played some top minutes, and held some elite players scoreless during a couple of those games. I wasn't overly impressed with the earlier parts of his season, but then he was stuck with Barrie quite a bit last year too. There are former NHL D men, who post in this forum, who think Dermott should have a very strong career, but are patient on his development.

 

[therealkoho]

I expect Dermott to be considered top 4 by the end of season.

There is a possibility for sure, he's had some good runs when given more responsibility, although on some shifts he can look like a disaster waiting to happen(not in the unforced error Jake Gardiner sense) but more the kind of missed assignment sense due to trying to do too much and ends up running around. Hopefully with another year under his belt now he's learned and has eliminated that need from his game. I know it's a lot to ask but I'm hoping he can develop into a modern version of Dmitri Yuskevich

 

[Stephen]

There are former NHL D men, who post in this forum, who think Dermott should have a very strong career, but are patient on his development.

Dermott has always had a lot of tools at his disposal to be a strong NHL defenseman, but his flat development curve and decision making, positioning and lack of real standout qualities to date that makes you wonder at times what his ceiling is.

 

[Cor]

Dermott has always had a lot of tools at his disposal to be a strong NHL defenseman, but his flat development curve and decision making, positioning and lack of real standout qualities to date that makes you wonder at times what his ceiling is.

He has top tier results on bottom pairing usage. He had good results when he had to essentially be our #2 behind Tyson Barrie when both Rielly and Muzzin was out.

I think Dermott just needs a consistent spot beside Muzzin and he’ll be able to take that next step quite easily.

 

[Dreakmur]

He has top tier results on bottom pairing usage. He had good results when he had to essentially be our #2 behind Tyson Barrie when both Rielly and Muzzin was out.

I think Dermott just needs a consistent spot beside Muzzin and he’ll be able to take that next step quite easily.

I’m not really sure either way, but the only way to find out is to try it. That’s why I have Dermott in the lineup instead of Holl.

I like Dermott’s skill set. I like his competitive nature. I have questions about his decision making. Lack of confidence often manifests as indecisiveness, so giving him a bit of an emotional boost should solve that riddle.

 

[Dekes For Days]

That’s why I have Dermott in the lineup instead of Holl.

They will both be in the lineup.

 

[Dreakmur]

They will both be in the lineup.

Wait a minute. Are you saying that I don't make the line-ups?

 

[ottomaddox]

He has top tier results on bottom pairing usage. He had good results when he had to essentially be our #2 behind Tyson Barrie when both Rielly and Muzzin was out.

I think Dermott just needs a consistent spot beside Muzzin and he’ll be able to take that next step quite easily.

Wait. All of a sudden he's a top 4 Right D? With all that we've seen (trading assets for Muzzin, signing Brodie/Bogosian, etc.), he can now play along side Rielly or Muzzin? Are fans being sensible, or are they just projecting a leap in ability from Dermott?

I don't want to be down on Dermott. He is certainly an NHLer, and certainly a 5-6 defenseman. I just don't think he will develop much more than that.

I like the guy. I certainly hope he proves me wrong.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

I hope he plays better, and I hope he proves me wrong. He did not have that good a year, a nor play-in series. I don't think he is bad, but he certainly doesn't instill confidence if we have Rielly, Muzzin, or Brodie go down. I mean what is his identity? What does he do really well? Score, defend, playmaking, the power play, or penalty killing? You could at least put Bogo/Holl in a couple of those categories where you couldn't put Dermott there.

"Clearly" LOL.

Yeah there is just so much consensus on Dermott! He's up there with Rielly "clearly".

No.

There is a big gap between the "not very good" claim you made and "he's up there with Rielly". For example:

Yet, Dermott's best stretch last year, was when Muzzin and Rielly went down. He played some top minutes, and held some elite players scoreless during a couple of those games. I wasn't overly impressed with the earlier parts of his season, but then he was stuck with Barrie quite a bit last year too. There are former NHL D men, who post in this forum, who think Dermott should have a very strong career, but are patient on his development.

I'd agree with this assessment.

Thinking about it, I think we will run 7D a lot this year.

Hyman - Matthews - Nylander
Vesey? - Tavares - Marner
Mikheyev - Kerfoot - Simmonds?
Thornton - Spezza

Rielly - Brodie
Muzzin - Dermott
Lehtonen - Holl
Bogosian

You’ll see Sandin and maybe even Liljegren called up to hop in for some games here and there as well, and obviously injuries will happen.

Taxi Squad probably;
Sandin
Liljegren
Dell
Anderson
Barabanov
Engvall

I don't know if we will run it "a lot". Even Tampa did not use 7D a lot, except in the play-ins where they were like 50/50, and it may be a lot for the forwards to handle considering Thornton and Spezza are likely going to have caps on their playing time as well. Keefe used 7 D once in a while, and is used to this kind of tight schedule, in the AHL so he should know how to handle it. The depth guys will play a decent amount, but ultimately he is still going to need to clearly figure out who they are using as a top 12/6 players, and who is depth.

In terms of what this means for this thread specifically: They need to figure out who is on the taxi squad if there is an AHL season. Either they need guys to replace Sandin, Liljegren, and Anderson in the AHL, or they need to get guys for the NHL.

 

[ottomaddox]

There is a big gap between the "not very good" claim you made and "he's up there with Rielly". For example:



I'd agree with this assessment.



I don't know if we will run it "a lot". Even Tampa did not use 7D a lot, except in the play-ins where they were like 50/50, and it may be a lot for the forwards to handle considering Thornton and Spezza are likely going to have caps on their playing time as well. Keefe used 7 D once in a while, and is used to this kind of tight schedule, in the AHL so he should know how to handle it. The depth guys will play a decent amount, but ultimately he is still going to need to clearly figure out who they are using as a top 12/6 players, and who is depth.

In terms of what this means for this thread specifically: They need to figure out who is on the taxi squad if there is an AHL season. Either they need guys to replace Sandin, Liljegren, and Anderson in the AHL, or they need to get guys for the NHL.

No. I was being fictitious.

 

[Cor]

Wait. All of a sudden he's a top 4 Right D? With all that we've seen (trading assets for Muzzin, signing Brodie/Bogosian, etc.), he can now play along side Rielly or Muzzin? Are fans being sensible, or are they just projecting a leap in ability from Dermott?

I don't want to be down on Dermott. He is certainly an NHLer, and certainly a 5-6 defenseman. I just don't think he will develop much more than that.

I like the guy. I certainly hope he proves me wrong.

Given his play in the top 4 when we lost our top 2 d-man was positive, I think he’d do just fine in the top 4 with our top 2 d-men with him and an added Brodie.

I guess one can decide if that’s sensible or not.

 

[Cor]

There is a big gap between the "not very good" claim you made and "he's up there with Rielly". For example:



I'd agree with this assessment.



I don't know if we will run it "a lot". Even Tampa did not use 7D a lot, except in the play-ins where they were like 50/50, and it may be a lot for the forwards to handle considering Thornton and Spezza are likely going to have caps on their playing time as well. Keefe used 7 D once in a while, and is used to this kind of tight schedule, in the AHL so he should know how to handle it. The depth guys will play a decent amount, but ultimately he is still going to need to clearly figure out who they are using as a top 12/6 players, and who is depth.

In terms of what this means for this thread specifically: They need to figure out who is on the taxi squad if there is an AHL season. Either they need guys to replace Sandin, Liljegren, and Anderson in the AHL, or they need to get guys for the NHL.

Im not sure what TB’s 7D usage has anything to do with anything.

We are in a spot to use 7D fairly well. In a shortened season with less games, perhaps more than we use 6D. We only have 6 back to backs. And I believe with Engvall assigned to the taxi squad, we can carry Barabanov or Anderson on the main squad to come in if Spezza or Thornton needed a break, but I feel like they are going to every game they are healthy for.

 

[Dreakmur]

Im not sure what TB’s 7D usage has anything to do with anything.

We are in a spot to use 7D fairly well. In a shortened season with less games, perhaps more than we use 6D. We only have 6 back to backs. And I believe with Engvall assigned to the taxi squad, we can carry Barabanov or Anderson on the main squad to come in if Spezza or Thornton needed a break, but I feel like they are going to every game they are healthy for.

It would depend who takes ice time away from who. It would wake very little sense for that #7 defenseman to take ice away from any of the top 3, considering those guys already lose a bunch of minutes to forwards on the Pp.