Trade and Free Agency Discussion Thread - Don't Expect More Augmenting

[Rob Brown]

I want to see Zdeno Chara sign with the Toronto Maple Leafs. I feel like that will be the Babe Ruth moment that swings all the divisional mojo to Toronto away from Boston.

He'd probably just sign a one year deal so that wouldn't make a difference in the division with Boston next year.

 

[Menzinger]

Well they will almost certainly put in Thornton and Spezza out of respect, but that does not necessarily mean they are the best options for the starting lineup. Malgin is far from useless, but he is likely not playing a lot anyways so it is irrelevant. At best he may be on the taxi-squad if he comes here, but I doubt he comes back so we don't need to put him on waivers. He could be in our lineup full time, or at least will have a serious chance at competing for a job, in 2021-2022 based on the way he is playing in the NLA.

If we are dressing our best possible lineup, then Bogosian is not in it. What he brings is not worth it enough to dress him over Holl.

Robertson will be given an opportunity, but he is not going to be gifted a roster spot. They aren't going to burn a year on him if he is as good as everyone else. He will almost certainly be in the rotation, at least until the OHL opens up, but if he is not showing that he can be good enough (especially offensively) to be in the top 12, then he won't be in the top 12.

Boogisan and Lehoten are definitely both getting icetime since both could have accepted offers elsewhere, but still thr same time i can't see Holl going from a 2nd pairing guy go out the lineup either. I think we'll see a pretty frequent rotation of guys in and out, especially if they want to give Dandin some games too

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Boogisan and Lehoten are definitely both getting icetime since both could have accepted offers elsewhere, but still thr same time i can't see Holl going from a 2nd pairing guy go out the lineup either. I think we'll see a pretty frequent rotation of guys in and out, especially if they want to give Dandin some games too

Well Bogosian was not going to be a top 6 guy on many good teams. He came here because he knew that we were a good team and would likely still play a decent amount. I dont think he came here with the expectation of being a top 6 guy, since we already had those three guys already there.

 

[Dreakmur]

Well Bogosian was not going to be a top 6 guy on many good teams. He came here because he knew that we were a good team and would likely still play a decent amount. I dont think he came here with the expectation of being a top 6 guy, since we already had those three guys already there.

If Bogosian doesn’t dress, we’re softer than we were last year.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

If Bogosian doesn’t dress, we’re softer than we were last year.

Not going to be enough to get him into a lineup.

 

[Dreakmur]

Not going to be enough to get him into a lineup.

Maybe not, but it’s what I would do.

 

[ottomaddox]

Well Bogosian was not going to be a top 6 guy on many good teams. He came here because he knew that we were a good team and would likely still play a decent amount. I dont think he came here with the expectation of being a top 6 guy, since we already had those three guys already there.

Your math seems to be off or something. He's not a top 6 guy because there's 3 guys there already?

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Your math seems to be off or something. He's not a top 6 guy because there's 3 guys there already?

No, because I did not even count the LD. He is not a LD.

The three guys were Brodie, Holl and Dermott/Lehtonen. If you want to include LD, he is not better than Rielly, Muzzin, or Dermott/Lehtonen either. He is not in the top 6.

 

[Dreakmur]

No, because I did not even count the LD. He is not a LD.

The three guys were Brodie, Holl and Dermott/Lehtonen. If you want to include LD, he is not better than Rielly, Muzzin, or Dermott/Lehtonen either. He is not in the top 6.

Building the best team is not simply collecting the best players. You need to add different elements to be successful.

While you might be correct that Bogosian isn’t one of the best 6 defensemen, the fact that he brings such a unique skill set makes him one of the 6 most valuable defensemen.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Building the best team is not simply collecting the best players. You need to add different elements to be successful.

While you might be correct that Bogosian isn’t one of the best 6 defensemen, the fact that he brings such a unique skill set makes him one of the 6 most valuable defensemen.

I agree, but not at the consequence of icing a worse lineup. Bogosian is not unique enough from Holl to warrant putting him in. Bogosian is, at best, a 16-17 minute defenseman these days and you want him in over a guy who can easily play 20+ minutes and provide many of the same elements (hitting, blocking shots, defensive and PK ability, size, etc.).

Bogosian's best shot at cracking the Leafs full time is if Lehtonen does not translate to NA hockey. Otherwise, the Leafs added enough of what Bogosian provides, both on defense and on offense, that we are not going to be forced to put him in if he is not good enough.

 

[Dreakmur]

I agree, but not at the consequence of icing a worse lineup. Bogosian is not unique enough from Holl to warrant putting him in. Bogosian is, at best, a 16-17 minute defenseman these days and you want him in over a guy who can easily play 20+ minutes and provide many of the same elements (hitting, blocking shots, defensive and PK ability, size, etc.).

Bogosian's best shot at cracking the Leafs full time is if Lehtonen does not translate to NA hockey. Otherwise, the Leafs added enough of what Bogosian provides, both on defense and on offense, that we are not going to be forced to put him in if he is not good enough.

Holl does not bring the same element of physicality and intimidation that Bogosian does.

If you really like Holl, he takes Dermott’s place and that’s who sits out.

We didn’t add anything that Bogosian brings. If he doesn’t dress, we lose toughness from last year. We downgraded from Clifford to Simmonds.

 

[LeafChief]

Bogosian is going to play and be in the lineup quite often. I imagine Dermott/Holl/Lehtonen/Bogosian are all going to be battling eachother for time.

I agree that skill-wise, Bogosian is the worst of the bunch but he brings an element that's going to be needed, especially when you're playing a team 3 times in a row.

 

[Cor]

Don’t be shocked if the Leafs run 7D on more than a rare occurrence.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Holl does not bring the same element of physicality and intimidation that Bogosian does.

If you really like Holl, he takes Dermott’s place and that’s who sits out.

We didn’t add anything that Bogosian brings. If he doesn’t dress, we lose toughness from last year. We downgraded from Clifford to Simmonds.

Teams don't fixate on toughness and intimidation like fans do. It is more about character and work ethic, on top of bringing various other valuable skills. Teams don't like guys who are floaters or don't work hard, and tough guys typically are not floaters or lazy, but they also don't like guys like what Clifford was for the Leafs: Absolutely useless and lacking skill. LA Clifford, Reaves, and to a lesser extent (and why he probably won't find anything close to a guaranteed job anymore) Matt Martin were at least able to drive possession off of a 4th line at one point of their careers and be somewhat useful outside of just hitting guys.

The Leafs therefore added guys who work hard and have some size to throw around, but also are skilled enough to be in an NHL lineup. That is why they chose Simmonds and Vesey over Clifford, and why Bogosian is on the outside looking in unless he beats out an unproven option in Lehtonen for a job (or if Dermott/Holl absolutely suck and give it to him).

If guys have character and work ethic, they will step up in the playoffs and perform when they need to. The guys the Leafs added, and currently have, are no different... And it is why the Leafs were not bullied by one of the more "physically imposing" teams in Columbus in the playoffs. If anything, we were able to do better in the tight areas than they were.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Don’t be shocked if the Leafs run 7D on more than a rare occurrence.

Also possible, but Bogosian would still be the 7th defenseman similar to what Schenn was in Tampa. Which is fine, but still not putting him in the top 6.

 

[Dreakmur]

Teams don't fixate on toughness and intimidation like fans do. It is more about character and work ethic, on top of bringing various other valuable skills. Teams don't like guys who are floaters or don't work hard, and tough guys typically are not floaters or lazy, but they also don't like guys like what Clifford was for the Leafs: Absolutely useless and lacking skill. LA Clifford, Reaves, and to a lesser extent (and why he probably won't find anything close to a guaranteed job anymore) Matt Martin were at least able to drive possession off of a 4th line at one point of their careers and be somewhat useful outside of just hitting guys.

The Leafs therefore added guys who work hard and have some size to throw around, but also are skilled enough to be in an NHL lineup. That is why they chose Simmonds and Vesey over Clifford, and why Bogosian is on the outside looking in unless he beats out an unproven option in Lehtonen for a job (or if Dermott/Holl absolutely suck and give it to him).

If guys have character and work ethic, they will step up in the playoffs and perform when they need to. The guys the Leafs added, and currently have, are no different... And it is why the Leafs were not bullied by one of the more "physically imposing" teams in Columbus in the playoffs. If anything, we were able to do better in the tight areas than they were.

Maybe the leafs don’t but a lot of teams do. I know I do, and my teams are usually very successful.

 

[cookie]

With the number of back to backs scheduled for next season, having someone to keep rats in check should be the Leafs’ top priority. The top heavy composition really screws up team dynamics in case of an injury as we saw with the leafs last year with Rielly and Muzzin gone. The taxi squad should be better utilized in order to keep the veterans fresh and all players in game shape.

 

[Gabriel426]

Bogo will most likely be playing. The last spot will determine Letholen and how he is being use and adjust to the NHL.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Maybe the leafs don’t but a lot of teams do. I know I do, and my teams are usually very successful.

Doesn't really tell me anything unless you run an NHL, or some other high end pro, team.

I also highly doubt you run a team that also does not have a lot of talent on it, unless you just run a team in a weak league. CHL is about as high as you can go where it can be somewhat successful, but that is because half of the guys are still kids.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

With the number of back to backs scheduled for next season, having someone to keep rats in check should be the Leafs’ top priority. The top heavy composition really screws up team dynamics in case of an injury as we saw with the leafs last year with Rielly and Muzzin gone. The taxi squad should be better utilized in order to keep the veterans fresh and all players in game shape.

We also lost Ceci in there too. Not many teams have the defensive depth to lose that many top 4 defensemen and come out okay, and we actually still did fine relatively speaking. We were still a mid-level defensive team under Keefe (which was better than any year we had Babcock) despite those injuries.

Bogo will most likely be playing. The last spot will determine Letholen and how he is being use and adjust to the NHL.

I don't think it is a matter of whether he will be playing. Marincin will likely be playing too. This year will likely be similar to the AHL, where the 7/8 guys still play a decent amount. They just don't play as often as the top 6, and are not as good as the top 6, and that is the point I am making. Bogosian is the #7 on this team unless Lehtonen does not translate. Then he is the #6 assuming a prospect like Sandin or Liljegren doesn't jump over him.

 

[Dreakmur]

Doesn't really tell me anything unless you run an NHL, or some other high end pro, team.

I also highly doubt you run a team that also does not have a lot of talent on it, unless you just run a team in a weak league. CHL is about as high as you can go where it can be somewhat successful, but that is because half of the guys are still kids.

I don’t coach in any professional leagues, but the concepts of building a team remain the same. The best team is rarely just the collection of the best players.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

I don’t coach in any professional leagues, but the concepts of building a team remain the same. The best team is rarely just the collection of the best players.

If we are talking about the team that ultimately wins the Cup, the best team usually has one of the best collections of players. Maybe not the absolute best, but that is pretty much step 1. Then you are looking for cohesion, hard-work, and well-roundedness, which is not accomplished by adding pure physical players who are worse in pretty much every other area than all of your alternatives. Just like you don't want a bunch of purely offensive forwards.

If Bogosian was better in other areas than just physicality, I would say something completely different, but we lose a lot more in the other areas than we gain in physicality.

 

[ottomaddox]

No, because I did not even count the LD. He is not a LD.

The three guys were Brodie, Holl and Dermott/Lehtonen. If you want to include LD, he is not better than Rielly, Muzzin, or Dermott/Lehtonen either. He is not in the top 6.

What? Dermott is not very good and struggles sometimes as a bottom pair D. We don't know what Lehtonen is. Perhaps he's ok, but let's wait a bit before crowning him. Holl is not good enough to play in the top 4. Once Muzzin went down it was apparent. He's a 5-6, but not a top 4. I think I'll take Bogosian's 644 games of experience over some of the players your mentioning.

 

[Cor]

Also possible, but Bogosian would still be the 7th defenseman similar to what Schenn was in Tampa. Which is fine, but still not putting him in the top 6.

That wasn’t really related to the Bogosian stuff, but the purpose would allow Bogo to play heavy PK and the other 6 to handle the ES duties.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

What? Dermott is not very good and struggles sometimes as a bottom pair D. We don't know what Lehtonen is. Perhaps he's ok, but let's wait a bit before crowning him. Holl is not good enough to play in the top 4. Once Muzzin went down it was apparent. He's a 5-6, but not a top 4. I think I'll take Bogosian's 644 games of experience over some of the players your mentioning.

Clearly you need to watch Dermott a lot more closely, because that is absolutely not true.