Speculation: "Toronto's forward lines look like Swiss cheese" - Jay Rosehill

[Ianturnedbull]

Goal scoring Expectations for a full season and a regular shift
50+ goal scorers: Matthews
40+ goal scorers: Nylander
30+ goal scorers: Tavares, Marner
20+ goal scorers: Knies, McMann, Robertson
10+ goal scorers: Domi, Jarnkrok, Holmberg

if Knies, McMann, Robertson play 15+ mins a night and the full season, 20+ should be reached.
I'm sorry, but, not many teams can stack up against this, even if you drop all the 20+ players to the 10-20 list.

Many teams can stack up against this. They have in the past, and they will in the future.

This is not a fantasy draft.

Teams can win with good goaltending and defensive play.

 

[Leafidelity]

Not scoring enough goals is what stopped this team in the playoffs last year

Not scoring enough goals will likely stop this team in the 2025 playoffs

 

[Madap]

Regular season should be pretty similar. Forwards will probably score a little less than last year but defence might provide a little more offence. Not worried about regular season.

We have few players on the team that are capable of stepping up in the playoffs though so I definitely wish there was more of a shake up in the front. Mostly just losers from top to bottom unfortunately. I’ll be cheering them losers on regardless though.

 

[Tie Domi Esquire]

The funniest thing about this is the fanboys try and tear down Rosehill. He's overly positive on the team, but to them he committed a crime by saying this.

 

[notbias]

The funniest thing about this is the fanboys try and tear down Rosehill. He's overly positive on the team, but to them he committed a crime by saying this.

I know you're insanely knowledgable about the team and hockey in general, so maybe you can expand on his thoughts for us.

How is losing Bertuzzi this big of a deal?

They have all the same forwards minus him and Gregor.

Or is Gregor the big loss? Maybe that is what he was talking about, because Bertuzzi sucked, so it couldn't have been him.

 

[Shooter2x]

Swiss Cheese offence going to finish top 5 in goals for most likely.

You guys have extreme expectations for what's not considered swiss cheese forward group

 

[thewave]

Swiss Cheese offence going to finish top 5 in goals for most likely.

You guys have extreme expectations for what's not considered swiss cheese forward group

What does Jay know? The only thing anyone can say is that the line balancing isn't great. Money is not properly allocated to the players needed that could help us win. Its just not available.

 

[notbias]

What does Jay know? The only thing anyone can say is that the line balancing isn't great. Money is not properly allocated to the players needed that could help us win. Its just not available.

Move Domi to line 1 and Marner to line 3, boom people will stop whining hopefully.

 

[TMLAM34]

This team desperately needs a third line center. Major hole there.

 

[Ianturnedbull]

Swiss Cheese offence going to finish top 5 in goals for most likely.

You guys have extreme expectations for what's not considered swiss cheese forward group

I am not going to dwell on past struggles from the top 6.

When has our bottom 6 been competitive in the playoffs? It seems to me that forming a bottom 6 has been forever difficult for both Dubas and Keefe. I cannot recall ever giving the other team match-up headaches in a playoff or play-in series.

 

[Fogelhund]

Same team minus Bertuzzi was second in the regular season last year. Scoring won’t be a problem in the regular season. It won’t be in the playoffs, if our guys ever learn to raise their game.

 

[thusk]

matthews marner nylander jt, Domi, Jarnkrok, Kampf and Knies are lock...Mcmann, robertson, cowan, holmberg, Dewar, Reaves fighting for remaining spot.

Personally i don't see any huge issue there...

I am going to look at TOR from a NO GUARANTEE HOCKEY lens.

No guarantee Minton/Cowan make the team.

No guarantee Minton/Cowan play heavy hockey in the playoffs.

No guarantee Robertson will be playing for TOR.

No guarantee Reaves comes to camp in shape. He might stumble like he did at the start of last season.

No guarantee Toronto will have a 3rd line C. Who is it? Domi, Kampf, or Abruzzese?

No guarantee Dewer is going to be more than what he already is.

Will McMann stay healthy? No guarantees.

There are plenty of questions and too many hopeful things.

This is Swiss cheese. If you're a cynical leafs fan you might call it cottage cheese.

make the same with florida exemple

- no guarante rodrigues will be able to do the same
- no guarantee Lundel will still develop and be better
No guarantee than florida offensive with 2 lost in D providing offensive will still as good

tampa
- outside top 4 in offensive its pretty poor
-Cirelli is a great 3C but a below average 2c. Paul is the only one with Cirelli lock
and no guarantee with 6 foward remaining to clise this line up

Boston
- No guarantee we see the Lindholm who had 10 pts in 13 and not the guy who had only 45 pts in regular season
-no guarantee Zadorov will loom like a top 4 d and notlooking more like a 3rd pair dmen.
- No guarantee this offensive will be better
- No guatantee Swayman will be able to bring in the pressure coming with #1 goalie all year long and no playing every 2 game.

you can do the same wiyh basically every team in the league. Every team no exception having ??? and hole. But what's will make the difference at the end, its if their strenght is strong enough to hide the hole.

 

[Gallagbi]

Goal scoring Expectations for a full season and a regular shift
50+ goal scorers: Matthews
40+ goal scorers: Nylander
30+ goal scorers: Tavares, Marner
20+ goal scorers: Knies, McMann, Robertson
10+ goal scorers: Domi, Jarnkrok, Holmberg

if Knies, McMann, Robertson play 15+ mins a night and the full season, 20+ should be reached.
I'm sorry, but, not many teams can stack up against this, even if you drop all the 20+ players to the 10-20 list.

I worry more about the defensive abilities especially of our middle 6.

Scoring shouldn't be an issue

 

[Ianturnedbull]

matthews marner nylander jt, Domi, Jarnkrok, Kampf and Knies are lock...Mcmann, robertson, cowan, holmberg, Dewar, Reaves fighting for remaining spot.

Personally i don't see any huge issue there...


make the same with florida exemple

- no guarante rodrigues will be able to do the same
- no guarantee Lundel will still develop and be better
No guarantee than florida offensive with 2 lost in D providing offensive will still as good

tampa
- outside top 4 in offensive its pretty poor
-Cirelli is a great 3C but a below average 2c. Paul is the only one with Cirelli lock
and no guarantee with 6 foward remaining to clise this line up

Boston
- No guarantee we see the Lindholm who had 10 pts in 13 and not the guy who had only 45 pts in regular season
-no guarantee Zadorov will loom like a top 4 d and notlooking more like a 3rd pair dmen.
- No guarantee this offensive will be better
- No guatantee Swayman will be able to bring in the pressure coming with #1 goalie all year long and no playing every 2 game.

you can do the same wiyh basically every team in the league. Every team no exception having ??? and hole. But what's will make the difference at the end, its if their strenght is strong enough to hide the hole.

I would then argue that BOS, TBL, and FLA all win playoff rounds.

 

[thusk]

I would then argue that BOS, TBL, and FLA all win playoff rounds.

don't bet on this

Florida lost a guy who played 23 min/night at D. Dont underating the impact of losing a key member of a D without any real option to replace him.

Boston will lose more game because of his G. Example losing 5 more game just resulting of goalte ding vs last year could be enougj to make them miss the playoff.

Tampa : i expect they will be better defensively than last 2 and harder to play against but again lack of depht so everything will be around kucherov, point, guentzel and hagel...

 

[thewave]

Move Domi to line 1 and Marner to line 3, boom people will stop whining hopefully.

I would be shocked in a contract year. Marner would start launching bombs in the media over that stunt. Sadly outside of overpaying Mitch and Nylander the other issue is how they seem to have dictated lines etc.

At the end of the day. Makeshift D and Makeshift G.

 

[Ianturnedbull]

don't bet on this

Florida lost a guy who played 23 min/night at D. Dont underating the impact of losing a key member of a D without any real option to replace him.

Boston will lose more game because of his G. Example losing 5 more game just resulting of goalte ding vs last year could be enougj to make them miss the playoff.

Tampa : i expect they will be better defensively than last 2 and harder to play against but again lack of depht so everything will be around kucherov, point, guentzel and hagel...

don't bet on this

Florida lost a guy who played 23 min/night at D. Dont underating the impact of losing a key member of a D without any real option to replace him.

Boston will lose more game because of his G. Example losing 5 more game just resulting of goalte ding vs last year could be enougj to make them miss the playoff.

Tampa : i expect they will be better defensively than last 2 and harder to play against but again lack of depht so everything will be around kucherov, point, guentzel and hagel...

When was there ever a time when you could bet on the Leafs?

 

[Racer88]

I worry more about the defensive abilities especially of our middle 6.

Scoring shouldn't be an issue

Until the playoffs then scoring is always the issue

 

[thusk]

When was there ever a time when you could bet on the Leafs?

Before 2023, Florida had won 1 playoff series in 27 years. Every thing can change pretty quickly and personally i don't leave in the past.

Edmonton even with the same team had a completly different look under knoblaugh and leafs will have a differenr look. For the best or worst?? i don't know but let's see if he can push the right buttom and bring the right system to maximize leafs abilities.

Until the playoffs then scoring is always the issue

Leafs was playing a east-West/ cycling type of system with a mininum of forechecking. That's helped leafs to hide defensive issues because defensive player was staying closer and much
longer with D but at the same time harder to get caught of position opposite D and created yourself space.

Under Berube forechecking will be higher and leafs D will have less help, so they will be under pressure and will need to be able to get the job done. If leafs would not upgrade the D, it would be swiss cheese.

 

[Nineteen67]

The core four forwards are a bigger concern to me.

 

[ULF_55]

Leafs was playing a east-West/ cycling type of system with a mininum of forechecking. That's helped leafs to hide defensive issues because defensive player was staying closer and much
longer with D but at the same time harder to get caught of position opposite D and created yourself space.

Under Berube forechecking will be higher and leafs D will have less help, so they will be under pressure and will need to be able to get the job done. If leafs would not upgrade the D, it would be swiss cheese.

Well they did upgrade the defense this year.

In: Tanev and Ekman-Larsson

Out: Brodie and Giordano

 

[ULF_55]

Jay was a great player. It’s too bad he isn’t running our team. He has so many accomplishments. Too many to name.

I have a couple minutes so I'll list them.

Scored 6 goals for the Manchester Storm
Scored 4 goals for the Braehead Clan

... sorry I'm exhausted ... can't ... finish


He was a NHL player, and that is a great accomplishment as an athlete.
I'm sure he is a wonderful person outside of hockey, which is the other 80% of his life.

 

[Nineteen67]

Jay Rosehill sounds like Messier, Gretzky, Chelios, Biz, Carter, Stewart, Hrudy, Kyper, and others have at one time or another. Maybe there are holes in the lineup.

 

[CabanaBoy5]

I think we all can agree that a team with Matthews, Nylander, Marner, and Tavares is not going to have problems scoring in the regular season. There will be good support in scoring from Domi, Knies, and perhaps Robertson. The Swiss cheese comment only applies if these guys don't raise their games in the playoffs.

 

[Ianturnedbull]

I think we all can agree that a team with Matthews, Nylander, Marner, and Tavares is not going to have problems scoring in the regular season. There will be good support in scoring from Domi, Knies, and perhaps Robertson. The Swiss cheese comment only applies if these guys don't raise their games in the playoffs.

No. I disagree. Many forwards are question marks. Yes I keep getting told by everyone here that every team has question marks. OK, but this is playoff futile Toronto. Their 3rd line does not represent anything that a good team would have, and the 4th is not much better. I don't know how "holes" became the meaning for "will not score".

No one can really challenge TOR on that. Yes they will score. They will make the playoffs likely. Beyond that we can expect the same results. The holes are depth. Where is the depth? There is no definitive easy answer when it comes to who will play center on the 3rd line. That's just the start.