Ianturnedbull
Registered User
- Jun 11, 2022
- 6,440
- 5,950
Speculation: "Toronto's forward lines look like Swiss cheese" - Jay Rosehill
- Thread starter Ianturnedbull
- Start date
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Swiss cheese is the best cheese!
Sooo, he really thinks we are the best team?
Sooo, he really thinks we are the best team?
…. but it’s Jay Rosehill - you don’t ever question that kind of hockey mind.
Truthfully - he is not totally wrong. A couple of pieces short.
Truthfully - he is not totally wrong. A couple of pieces short.
It's complete trash, sadly not even remotely invested this upcoming season.
I've be trumpeting it in a variety of threads, but I don't think he's too far off. The team badly needs another quality center that can allow Tavares to move down to the third line in a scoring role. To make that happen, you move Jarnkrok and Kampf IMO and likely have to pay extra to get some retention. IMO, the forward group looks a lot different if it's...
Domi-Matthews-Marner
Knies-Addition-Nylander
McMann-Tavares-Grebenkin
Dewar-Holmberg-Cowan
Reaves
I actually like the potential that 3rd line has a lot. And 2C doesn't have to be anyone special, Nylander will drive that line for the most part. He simply needs to be a guy that has proven he can play.
Utah has Cooley, Hayton, Schmaltz, Bjugstad, Kerfoot, McCain and Stenlund as center options and just drafted Tig Iginla... Put a friggen package together and go get one of Hayton or Schmaltz. Both could easily center Nylander and Knies. Hayton is 24. Schmaltz is 28. Lots of prime left for both. The price won't be cheap, but a 2C is a crucial part of the organization. Robertson, Minten, the 2025 2nd, 2026 1st and even newly drafted Ben Danford should all be pieces Toronto is willing to part with in some combination if they can get a reasonably priced, cost controlled 2C with 60+ point upside for the remainder of Matthews and Nylander's primes.
Domi-Matthews-Marner
Knies-Addition-Nylander
McMann-Tavares-Grebenkin
Dewar-Holmberg-Cowan
Reaves
I actually like the potential that 3rd line has a lot. And 2C doesn't have to be anyone special, Nylander will drive that line for the most part. He simply needs to be a guy that has proven he can play.
Utah has Cooley, Hayton, Schmaltz, Bjugstad, Kerfoot, McCain and Stenlund as center options and just drafted Tig Iginla... Put a friggen package together and go get one of Hayton or Schmaltz. Both could easily center Nylander and Knies. Hayton is 24. Schmaltz is 28. Lots of prime left for both. The price won't be cheap, but a 2C is a crucial part of the organization. Robertson, Minten, the 2025 2nd, 2026 1st and even newly drafted Ben Danford should all be pieces Toronto is willing to part with in some combination if they can get a reasonably priced, cost controlled 2C with 60+ point upside for the remainder of Matthews and Nylander's primes.
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They'll be fine. They finished 2nd in the league in goals last year. Maybe they'll take a slight step back offensively, but the additions on D and what should be improved goaltending via the removal of Samsonov should more than make up for the loss of Bertuzzi up front. I do think they need a 3rd line Center though.
It's a better team on paper than last year's group in my opinion.
It's a better team on paper than last year's group in my opinion.
Leaf Fans
Registered User
- Sep 29, 2017
- 21,564
- 9,537
Assuming Matthews/Marner/Nylander/JT all play in the top 6, I’d say:
- Top 6 very strong
- Bottom 6 quite weak
- Defence mediocre
- Goaltending mediocre if Woll stays healthy, terrible otherwise
Overall, it’s … about what you’d expect with 4 forwards taking up ~half the cap.
- Top 6 very strong
- Bottom 6 quite weak
- Defence mediocre
- Goaltending mediocre if Woll stays healthy, terrible otherwise
Overall, it’s … about what you’d expect with 4 forwards taking up ~half the cap.
Jimmy Firecracker
Backcheck, Forecheck, Paycheque.
Eh, it’s not Swiss cheese but it ain’t a murderer’s row either.
[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD]
[TD]
[TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Knies[/TD]
[TD]Matthews[/TD]
[TD]Marner[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]McMann[/TD]
[TD]Tavares[/TD]
[TD]Nylander[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Robertson[/TD]
[TD]Domi[/TD]
[TD]Jarnkrok[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Dewar[/TD]
[TD]Kampf[/TD]
[TD]Reaves[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Minten[/TD]
[TD]Holmberg[/TD]
[TD]Cowan[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
I plugged Cowan and Minten in the depth chart but it could just as easily be Quillan, Hirvonen, or Steeves who take one or both of those spots.
Really the biggest concern is the LW. It’s got talent but it’s so young and inexperienced that it’s hard to know what exactly we’re getting. Three of those guys scored 14-15 goals in the NHL, two of them in only 56 games with minimal playing time. Is it outlandish to expect a similar output or even an improvement from them?
Centre isn’t great but you could do worse with John. He is what he is but what he is is pretty decent, if not uninspiring. Wish we’d kick Kampf to the curb but that’s spilled milk at this point. I put Domi at 3C but he could just as easily be riding shotgun with Matthews again. It’d be great if Holmberg took a step towards solidifying himself as a real option at 3C.
RW is a bevy of riches at least, with two first line talents occupying lines one and two. Jarnkrok is a good 3RW even if he does turn into an offensive ghost in the playoffs. Reaves at 4RW will be something that needs to be addressed, internally or otherwise. But that’s just a fourth line spot.
Forward lineup is more like 3 golden eggs with a whole lot of magic beans strewn about. We might get something special out of a few guys but it’s no guarantee.
[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD]
LW
[/TD][TD]
C
[/TD][TD]
RW
[/TD][/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Knies[/TD]
[TD]Matthews[/TD]
[TD]Marner[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]McMann[/TD]
[TD]Tavares[/TD]
[TD]Nylander[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Robertson[/TD]
[TD]Domi[/TD]
[TD]Jarnkrok[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Dewar[/TD]
[TD]Kampf[/TD]
[TD]Reaves[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Minten[/TD]
[TD]Holmberg[/TD]
[TD]Cowan[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
I plugged Cowan and Minten in the depth chart but it could just as easily be Quillan, Hirvonen, or Steeves who take one or both of those spots.
Really the biggest concern is the LW. It’s got talent but it’s so young and inexperienced that it’s hard to know what exactly we’re getting. Three of those guys scored 14-15 goals in the NHL, two of them in only 56 games with minimal playing time. Is it outlandish to expect a similar output or even an improvement from them?
Centre isn’t great but you could do worse with John. He is what he is but what he is is pretty decent, if not uninspiring. Wish we’d kick Kampf to the curb but that’s spilled milk at this point. I put Domi at 3C but he could just as easily be riding shotgun with Matthews again. It’d be great if Holmberg took a step towards solidifying himself as a real option at 3C.
RW is a bevy of riches at least, with two first line talents occupying lines one and two. Jarnkrok is a good 3RW even if he does turn into an offensive ghost in the playoffs. Reaves at 4RW will be something that needs to be addressed, internally or otherwise. But that’s just a fourth line spot.
Forward lineup is more like 3 golden eggs with a whole lot of magic beans strewn about. We might get something special out of a few guys but it’s no guarantee.
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Not sure what ever made Rosehill relevant but the forward group isn’t the issue. The goaltending and D suck
Eternal Leaf
Registered User
Too many question marks. He's not wrong.
Knies
Robertson
Minten
Cowen
McMann
Holmberg
Reaves
Grebyonkin
Dewar
Liljegren
Woll
Stolarz
Hakanpaa/Timmins
Benoit
That's a crazy long list. So many players that aren't exactly reliable, consistent and/or proven. Some will hit and others won't but that's no way of building a cup contender.
These are all question marks that could go pear-shaped. Will Knies take another step? Will the prospects make the team on merit or just get handed a spot?
Playoffs are a long way away but this is a weaker group. Too much reliance on a core that already disappears when it matters.
Knies
Robertson
Minten
Cowen
McMann
Holmberg
Reaves
Grebyonkin
Dewar
Liljegren
Woll
Stolarz
Hakanpaa/Timmins
Benoit
That's a crazy long list. So many players that aren't exactly reliable, consistent and/or proven. Some will hit and others won't but that's no way of building a cup contender.
These are all question marks that could go pear-shaped. Will Knies take another step? Will the prospects make the team on merit or just get handed a spot?
Playoffs are a long way away but this is a weaker group. Too much reliance on a core that already disappears when it matters.
I am not as negative compared to most, I guess.
We still have the world's greatest goal scorer. We have two 90-point wingers. We have some solid additional pieces in Tavares, Domi, Jarnkrok, Kampf, and Knies (yes, I'd include Knies in that group, and yes, Kampf is a solid depth piece, though overpaid).
This team will be fine in the regular season. The real problem is finding that next level and the forward group is indeed missing a few pieces on that front. I agree with the previous poster who said that even an average #2C would go a long way in rounding out the roster.
The good news: There is always trade deadline to add. Combine that with some growth from within and I think this team can be a Cup contender. The real concern with this team should be the goaltending, IMO. The Stolarz signing was a decent bet but, like any bet, it could flop.
We still have the world's greatest goal scorer. We have two 90-point wingers. We have some solid additional pieces in Tavares, Domi, Jarnkrok, Kampf, and Knies (yes, I'd include Knies in that group, and yes, Kampf is a solid depth piece, though overpaid).
This team will be fine in the regular season. The real problem is finding that next level and the forward group is indeed missing a few pieces on that front. I agree with the previous poster who said that even an average #2C would go a long way in rounding out the roster.
The good news: There is always trade deadline to add. Combine that with some growth from within and I think this team can be a Cup contender. The real concern with this team should be the goaltending, IMO. The Stolarz signing was a decent bet but, like any bet, it could flop.
Dayjobdave
Registered User
- Apr 29, 2010
- 3,407
- 1,860
Rosehill is fun to listen to, but hasn’t he been campaigning that the Leafs should trade Mitch? Then the forward group would really look like Swiss cheese.
There’s no room to do anything else significant this year. Time to play the games
Gilmour1996
Registered User
- Oct 16, 2022
- 1,197
- 1,449
Forwards that garner a lot of ice time look more like Cheese Whiz, not Swiss. Smooth and soft.
ACC1224
Super Elite, Passing ALL Tests since 2002
- Aug 19, 2002
- 78,278
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Ianturnedbull
Registered User
- Jun 11, 2022
- 6,440
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This team's bottom 6 looks particularly bad to me. If Treliving is hoping that Minton/Cowen play regularly then it's a recipe for disaster. That's no shade on each player. It's just too much to ask them to play meaningful hockey in their 1st go as rookies.
The third line has to look like some team's top 6. There has to be talent there. There's just no way. Yes you can easily blame it on the salary allocation of this team.
The third line has to look like some team's top 6. There has to be talent there. There's just no way. Yes you can easily blame it on the salary allocation of this team.
Captain Crunch
Registered User
- Mar 31, 2019
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- 1,748
Having Tanev, Rielly, and McCabe in your top 4 is mediocre? I think you'll be in for a surprise. Also, OEL will be a nice addition to our bottom 6, and he will help improve the lack of scoring from our defense, which had to be addressed.
How did you come up with the goaltending being mediocre if Woll stays healthy? If he can stay healthy he is a bonafide #1 goalie. And I believe Stolarz will be a solid 1B goalie as well.
thewave
Toronto Maple Leafs Toy Co.
- Jun 17, 2011
- 44,278
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It will always come down to cap. The only way around it is to cheat someone out of deserved salary or have a steady stream of drafted stars
Notsince67
Papi and the Lamplighters
- Apr 27, 2018
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It's a little insane not to be hoping Cowan can get some minutes. He has proven everything he needs to. He just needs a good camp and it isn't wishful thinking that he can make the roster. It would be a disappointment if he doesnt
They look fine to me. Not sure what the concern is, all we lost was Bert.
MCR74
Registered User
- Nov 11, 2022
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- 5,077
Torontonian
Registered User
Nothing lol. Younger, Higher skill players are getting more of a chance to develop such a Robertson, Knies and Possibility Cowan, this is how you develop your roster to be more competitive, allow younger players to grow into good players.
No point in signing someone average like bert for 5m+.. Robertson can score 21g+ this year at 1m cap hit compared to Bert lol.
leafsfan2point0
Registered User
- Jun 8, 2011
- 2,081
- 2,530
Totally agree. Bert didn’t exactly light it up here for 5.5M, I would rather give our young talent we’ve been developing a chance and use the Bert money to sign a quality Dman in Tanev.
I mean you just got rid of two of our top PK guys so who are you replacing them with in this lineup? people who want to move Kampf/Jarnkrok generally just looking at offense with no care about the defensive side of the game or the Penalty kill. we were a terrible PK last year and by the looks of it from a forward perspective you just made it worst.
