Toronto Sports Media Discussion Thread - v7 (2022 Edition)

[TheTotalPackage]

Why does Hayes think that if you took away reviews for offsides, there would have been less uproar about the Makar goal?

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

With replays from every different angle available now, you can't justify not getting a play right. Like the Matt Duchene goal that started it all. You can't let that go no longer. Us fans at home who get the chance to see that replay over and over can see it plain as day, whereas the refs have a split second in real time. Same way in baseball -- if video replay was available at the time, Armando Galarraga would have gone in the record books with a perfect game.

What causes the biggest uproar is that video replay exists, and they still get the calls wrong. Then, yeah, what's really the point of them if they do nothing in the first place?

 

[3blizzard4]

Why does Hayes think that if you took away reviews for offsides, there would have been less uproar about the Makar goal?

If anything we need more reviews. So phantom high sticks are caught among other things that don't put a team down two men in a critical playoff game.

 

[wingman75]

Disagree with Hayes on that take. They are 100% here to stay... and they will get better over time. Some of the rules may need minor re-writes. The language in some leave gaping grey areas which make a review almost useless.

For example, based on the written rule, that was an onside play, all elements of common sense tell us it was clearly offside. Update the written rule and that review spits out a resonable result.

I also think reviews should have a time limit on them... when they are over there for 5 minutes it's like they are trying to squeeze the outcome they want. Watch it, confirm what you saw, move on.

 

[pcruz]

He's stayed consistent on this for many years now.

From the first time they introduced replay in the NFL, then the NHL, he's harped on the replays.

I completely agree with him to be honest.

Sport is an aspect of life/entertainment where passion and bitterness are cultivated.
Nothing gets a group of people rallied in a certain direction than a common foe, and controversial calls or missed calls from officials serve that up in spades.

I didn't like the 2 ref change myself, and I've hated many of the other changes the league has implemented over the last 2 decades (loser point, shootout, 3 on 3 -although very entertaining, video replays, coaches' challenges, etc.)

 

[Seath The Scaleless]

Why does Hayes think that if you took away reviews for offsides, there would have been less uproar about the Makar goal?

My guess is because of all the angles, the time it took to review, the explanation afterwards, etc. It wouldn't have been the focal point of the game without the review

I'm not sure if he ever referenced this goal from 2015, but there wasn't a ton of uproar about it being offside. Granted, it wasn't as obvious as the Duchene goal.



I don't mind the review process. Where it gets silly is when they bring out the microscope to see if someone was an inch offside or flipping a coin for distinct kicking motion (Coleman goal should've counted)

 

[huerter]

Disagree with Hayes on that take. They are 100% here to stay... and they will get better over time. Some of the rules may need minor re-writes. The language in some leave gaping grey areas which make a review almost useless.

For example, based on the written rule, that was an onside play, all elements of common sense tell us it was clearly offside. Update the written rule and that review spits out a resonable result.

I also think reviews should have a time limit on them... when they are over there for 5 minutes it's like they are trying to squeeze the outcome they want. Watch it, confirm what you saw, move on.

Not to go down this rabbit hole but how does common sense tell us it was offside? The rule is the rule. It's black and white. This isn't a situation that requires common sense.

 

[wingman75]

Not to go down this rabbit hole but how does common sense tell us it was offside? The rule is the rule. It's black and white. This isn't a situation that requires common sense.

The player carrying the puck into the zone clearly had control of it, regardless if it was touching his stick the entire time, which should make the play offside. I think the way the rule is written, because the puck carrier happened to not be touching the puck it was deemed onside. I don't care either way.

 

[huerter]

The player carrying the puck into the zone clearly had control of it, regardless if it was touching his stick the entire time, which should make the play offside. I think the way the rule is written, because the puck carrier happened to not be touching the puck it was deemed onside. I don't care either way.

You can say you think it should be that way, but you can't say common sense says it should be that way.

 

[Golden_Jet]

If anything we need more reviews. So phantom high sticks are caught among other things that don't put a team down two men in a critical playoff game.

No chance it’s a slippery slope, that has gotten worse.

 

[wingman75]

You can say you think it should be that way, but you can't say common sense says it should be that way.

I can say whatever I want... no one has to agree... but yea, fair enough.

 

[TheShape]

Now I remember why I stopped listening to 32 Thoughts. How are Marek and Friedman with a straight face seriously praising Mike Smith’s game?

These two are so terrified to be critical of anything, definition of vanilla.

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

TSN is great but their games are too few and far between to make up for Sportsnet’s apparent policy to never sound biased in favour of the Leafs, even if a game they have is listed as a regional broadcast. Shocker that people don’t enjoy constant criticism of their favourite team

 

[hockeywiz542]

Ranking all 32 NHL local TV broadcasts from worst to best, according to fans

The winner jumped several spots from last year's ranking, while Seattle's crew made a much stronger debut than the team on the ice.

theathletic.com

25. Toronto Maple Leafs

The broadcast: Sportsnet carries Leafs games with Chris Cuthbert doing play-by-play and Craig Simpson doing color. TSN is the secondary Leafs carrier with Gord Miller doing play-by-play and Ray Ferraro doing color.

Local ranking: 29

National: 21

Last season: 22

The results: The Maple Leafs broadcast is hard to get a full read on sometimes because the rights are split between Sportsnet and TSN, and Leafs games, according to fans, often have the feel of a national game rather than local. And there is often some distaste for the amount of attention the Leafs get by other Canadian markets, which can help skew ratings in this exercise.

“It depends on which broadcast has the game,” one Maple Leafs fan wrote. “If it’s Sportsnet it’s a 1, if it’s TSN it’s a 5.”

“TSN is a 4, Sportsnet is a 2,” another wrote. “Average it out to a 3.”

This was common. Leafs fans, in general, seemed to prefer the TSN broadcast, noting the Sportsnet broadcast felt too national at times and TSN at least gave a more local feel to the broadcast.

Either way, most complaints about the broadcast in Toronto come from the approach by analysts or studio shows, with the play-by-play providing a solid foundation no matter the network.

“With Chris Cuthbert doing every game on Sportsnet and Gord Miller doing every game on TSN, Leafs fans are spoiled with the talent in the booth,” one Leafs fan wrote.

The bottom line: Because of split rights and perceived bias one way or the other, Leafs fans have a complicated relationship with the broadcast of their favorite team.

 

[wingman75]

I didn't know they were doing this survey, but I was thinking about this just the other day.
As much as I appreciate how good Gord and CC are, same with Ray and Simpson... all have stated they are not Leaf fans... which is what I want for the regional games. National games I am okay with a neutral broadcast. I agree with the overall sentiment that TSN is far superior to SN.

Just wondering how long before we get a live betting ticker on SN broadcasts? It has to be coming right? FO

TSN is great but their games are too few and far between to make up for Sportsnet’s apparent policy to never sound biased in favour of the Leafs, even if a game they have is listed as a regional broadcast. Shocker that people don’t enjoy constant criticism of their favourite team

I don't want fluff. Talk to me like a true Leafs fan... because for the regional games, that is who is watching. We all know when a player is not on, or when a call has gone against us... I just want a broadcast that aligns with the general sentiments of the fans... maybe taken back a notch or two, we are over-the-top afterall. What we get is corporate fluff, especially from SN. Not sure changing the pbp caller will fix that, but it would be a good start.

 

[stickty111]

TSN is great but their games are too few and far between to make up for Sportsnet’s apparent policy to never sound biased in favour of the Leafs, even if a game they have is listed as a regional broadcast. Shocker that people don’t enjoy constant criticism of their favourite team

Yup. The Oilers get a huge Oilers fanboy in Jack Michaels and the biases on an Oilers game is cringy. Rick Ball on the Flames is a Flames supporter but his call is at least less biased and pretty objective. His color guy in Hrudey is a huge Flames supporter though and his commentry is very Flames centric.
I'm not saying I want a Leafs fanboy calling a Leafs game, but at least keep it equal. On Sportsnet, it sounds like a national game than a regional game. CC is great and I think he is a Leafs fan but just doesn't show it. Simpson man having him do color on a team he despises is hilarious.

 

[Anthrax442]

When these channels show highlights, they replace the pbp with Joe Bowen's call most times anyway. Why not just have him do all games on TV.

 

[tmlms13]

So I just realized that Jeff O'Neill blocked me on twitter. I haven't said a thing negative to him. I honestly think he misclicked. FFS I even RT'd Bob Mackenzie when he got his Gold Medal stolen to try and help him.

I looked through all my tweet and the closest thing to being negative to him was I made an anti-Craig Button tweet when he was going to do a hit on Overdrive, and wasn't @him.

 

[justashadowof]

Every team's home/regional broadcast should be homers. That broadcast is for the supporters of the team. They should have some familiarity with the players and coaching staff and front office people. Joe Bowen never should have lost the tv gig. However he is getting older to make a return.


National broadcasts are a different animal. It's point is to appeal to all viewers: those who love, hate or are indifferent about any individual club.

 

[TheRumble]

Look at some of the RFAs that have signed in the past 2 years: Nick Suzuki around $8M, Kaprizov got $9M after 1 season, Quinn Hughes at around $8M, Adam Fox at $9.5M, Jack Hughes got a ridiculous $8M contract, Brady Tkachuk etc etc.

None of those guys, outside of Fox, had the track record as Mitch at the time of getting their contracts. And Mitch is significantly better that most of these guys except for Kaprizov and Fox and he's probably slightly more impactful than both these guys.

There's a good reason for those RFA deals.

1) Nobody wants a contract dispute with their top young stars.

2) It has never benefited a team in the entire history of the Cap era to wait for a player's RFA deal to expire before extending them. Never. And even most bridge deals don't turn out well for the team. This is fair criticism of Dubas I will never defend on and ironically I never see it mentioned here.

If you wait for a player to "earn" his contract you end up paying a lot more than if you overpay a year early. Marner was asking for an $8.5 million dollar deal coming off a 69 point season in 2018. That's an overpay.

The next season he puts up 94 points with Tavares and you now have a 90 point player making $8.5 million and is getting better. Teams bet on potential because a players first 4-5 years are the ones where they show most significant improvements.

 

[Brobust]

There's a good reason for those RFA deals.

1) Nobody wants a contract dispute with their top young stars.

2) It has never benefited a team in the entire history of the Cap era to wait for a player's RFA deal to expire before extending them. Never. And even most bridge deals don't turn out well for the team. This is fair criticism of Dubas I will never defend on and ironically I never see it mentioned here.

If you wait for a player to "earn" his contract you end up paying a lot more than if you overpay a year early. Marner was asking for an $8.5 million dollar deal coming off a 69 point season in 2018. That's an overpay.

The next season he puts up 94 points with Tavares and you now have a 90 point player making $8.5 million and is getting better. Teams bet on potential because a players first 4-5 years are the ones where they show most significant improvements.

There are more Clayton Kellers and Colin Whites out there than there are Nathan MacKinnons.

That's not a particularly safe bet.

 

[TheRumble]

There are more Clayton Kellers and Colin Whites out there than there are Nathan MacKinnons.

That's not a particularly safe bet.

Incidentally Clayton Keller became a point per game player this year on one of the worst offensive teams in the league. He's easily worth $7 million now.

Instances where this has paid off had far exceeded instances where it is a complete disaster.

 

[TMLeafer]

I listed to 590 for like 20 minutes and both Cox and Seravelli were discounting the value of the Hart trophy. Just in time for Matthews to win it. Idiots

Edit: to clarify, Cox was. Seravelli was on about how Matthews wasn't #1 for him, a take they've had him on for before.

 

[garce]

Listening to Edmonton radio rn and Noodles is guesting and joining right in on the Toronto bias sniveling in the awards talk. Gives Lilly getting Calder votes as further evidence of how stupid Toronto media is. Dumbest man in Toronto media(well tied with Carlo).
Host Neilsons focus over and over again is that 5 voters didn't have McD on their ballots as if dumb stuff like that didn't happen every year and if he wanted to identify the 5 he easily could but no effort being made, just whining.

 

[TheTotalPackage]

I listed to 590 for like 20 minutes and both Cox and Seravelli were discounting the value of the Hart trophy. Just in time for Matthews to win it. Idiots

Edit: to clarify, Cox was. Seravelli was on about how Matthews wasn't #1 for him, a take they've had him on for before.

I can't believe that blowhard Cox still has a platform. He's always been horrible.

 

[CapspaceKiller]

Not surprised by the broadcasting ranking, Craig Simpson is the dirt worst