Toronto Maple Leafs are surprisingly underperforming

[KCC]

I don't necessarily think it's entirely due to their current record that there are concerns about the Leafs. As has been mentioned, it's early in the season AND other teams have similar records. IMO, it's more the fact that Toronto's core has a lot more to prove than a lot of these other teams and the same sort of lazy, uninspired play still keeps cropping up.

I don't think this slow start will affect their ability to make the playoffs. I still expect them to be top 2 or top 3 in their division by the end of 82 games. However, the way they're going about playing these first 10 games makes me wonder if this core has the character/determination/leadership to ever be a successful team come playoff time.

Players like Kadri and Hyman just to name a few are gone. They were the grit and sand paper that you need come playoff time. Sure the Leafs still lost in the first round with them on the team but who knows what could have been had they stuck around. Now the team has no one left. Just an overpaid, lazy, soft core with a GM who still seems to believe in them. lol

 

[Mav3rick07]

Colorado is also .500

There's one big shiny reason why these two teams aren't comparable.

 

[Gordian Knot]

It wasn't surprise. They overachieved themselves last year and it was therefore anomaly.

Sometimes things just don't click like in dreams and results look more like expected ones.

Picture below shows 2021-2022 and 2022-2023 Leafs as goats, just figure it out.

 

[Pizza!Pizza!]

I wish the Leafs played every night so we could have more of these threads.

I am also looking forward to the inevitable 'plan the parade' threads when they get on a 4 game heater against some decent teams.

 

[JAS 39 Gripen]

Yupp, and when Auston scores again while Marner's assisting him, they'll also chant "2 of the 5 best players in the league! We're gonna win AINEC! Nylander sucks!" everywhere.

Then playoffs arrives. They lose in the 7th game in the 1st round against some opponent with lower point totals in the regular season. Marner and Matthews are invisible when it matters, again. The fans wants blood, while also blaming it on the goalie, b/c ofc. During the off-season, they create multiple threads on how they have the best player in the league, that they'll for sure win "next time", and then it all starts over again. Rinse and repeat.

TBH, it wouldn't be a NHL season without this though. Kinda fun to watch

 

[SheldonJPlankton]

COVID was a pandemic. It affected everyone on the planet some way. Why would the Leafs have benefited more than others if the pandemic didn’t take hold on the planet?

Well, in 2020 the Leafs were on pace for 95 points and quite possibly may have been bounce entirely by Florida from the playoffs had the season played out in its entirety. 2021 brought about the faux Northern Division and provided the Leafs with their only shot at winning a division title in recent history. 2022 was just an odd year where multiple teams set multiple franchise/league records and strange occurrences like Price admitting he was a junkie became commonplace...which brings us to 2023. 2023 has more or less normalized the prior extremes, teams like Florida and Toronto have fallen back into their usual bubble-team playoff selves, the Habs return to being a .500 team and most of the League has leveled out to a state of compliancy.

 

[ChadBigly]

Surprise to outsiders. Those who follow leafs have seen this coming for years. I

A rookie gm, rookie coach is a disaster in the making
The signs have been there. Losing to montreal with a 3-1 lead, losing to zamboni driver. Anyone who watches hockey will yell you Dubas is way over his head

Under Dubas leafs traded or walked out on FA
Kadri
Hyman
Mikaheyev
Kapanen
Andreas
Marchment
Anderson

Out of all that, only thing you have to show for now is Kerfoot and Malgin

Traded 1st nik foligno . Back problem. Plays 10 games
Traded 1st to get rid of mrazek. A deal he signed. Concussion and knee problem. Last 1 season
Trades for Murray. All kind of problems
Marchment for Malgin
Doesn't have depth goalies for even back up. The 4th string goalie is our back up


He Traded away all speed and depth.

This dude has single handily killed the franchise

The wonder boy has generational for all the wrong reasons

Dubas is Mike Milbury with Analytics

 

[ijuka]

There's one big shiny reason why these two teams aren't comparable.

Even beyond the Stanley Cup, Leafs have had a far easier schedule. Just look at the teams they've lost to.

 

[MarkusNaslund19]

Well, in 2020 the Leafs were on pace for 95 points and quite possibly may have been bounce entirely by Florida from the playoffs had the season played out in its entirety. 2021 brought about the faux Northern Division and provided the Leafs with their only shot at winning a division title in recent history. 2022 was just an odd year where multiple teams set multiple franchise/league records and strange occurrences like Price admitting he was a junkie became commonplace...which brings us to 2023. 2023 has more or less normalized the prior extremes, teams like Florida and Toronto have fallen back into their usual bubble-team playoff selves, the Habs return to being a .500 team and most of the League has leveled out to a state of compliancy.

Super derogatory way of framing addiction, man. Please consider rephrasing.

 

[PaulD]

Players like Kadri and Hyman just to name a few are gone. They were the grit and sand paper that you need come playoff time. Sure the Leafs still lost in the first round with them on the team but who knows what could have been had they stuck around. Now the team has no one left. Just an overpaid, lazy, soft core with a GM who still seems to believe in them. lol

Good points.
I remember when the Leafs went 6 with the Caps in 2017. Matthews was a rookie. Great series. I also recall the Leafs management team consisting of Lou , Shanny, Lemaire, Hunter, Babcock. All those young guns on the roster plus they had some sand paper in Komorov, Martin, Kadri, Hyman, Brown, Back in 2017 2018 the leafs had fans of opposing teams round the league worried for a span. Could they finally be a legit threat? How would we ever put up with the city of Toronto if they win a Cup! .......... What happened ? .......... they certainly dont have anybody worried anymore. Where did all that potential go? That team that went six with a very strong Caps team. Great series the next year with the Bruins. Surely given a few years would they would be a force. Then Dubas took the wheel......... SPLAT

 

[PaulD]

Well, in 2020 the Leafs were on pace for 95 points and quite possibly may have been bounce entirely by Florida from the playoffs had the season played out in its entirety. 2021 brought about the faux Northern Division and provided the Leafs with their only shot at winning a division title in recent history. 2022 was just an odd year where multiple teams set multiple franchise/league records and strange occurrences like Price admitting he was a junkie became commonplace...which brings us to 2023. 2023 has more or less normalized the prior extremes, teams like Florida and Toronto have fallen back into their usual bubble-team playoff selves, the Habs return to being a .500 team and most of the League has leveled out to a state of compliancy.

And the Bruins just keep on contending.
Oilers are for real
Flames are for real.

 

[666]

There are 29 teams within 2 games of the Leafs. You people need to find other hobbies.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

We spend so much time mindlessly shitting on the Leafs as a time-honored, yearly tradition, that I think a lot of us lost track of why we do it in the first place: because the Leafs suck and don't deserve anything good to happen to them, ever.

 

[Michel Beauchamp]

One thing that gets ignored about how Toronto turned it around in November last year.

jack Campbell has 3 shutouts and like a 0.950+ save %. That is what really propelled them. Do they expect similar results with Samsanov?

As someone has already mentioned, they've had an amazingly soft schedule in October. Nobody would have been surprised to see them at 8-2 or 9-1 rather than 4-4-2.

Their schedule in November is much more arduous.

A tip of the hat to them if they repeat their last November record (12-2-0).

 

[TheNumber4]

We spend so much time mindlessly shitting on the Leafs as a time-honored, yearly tradition, that I think a lot of us lost track of why we do it in the first place: because the Leafs suck and don't deserve anything good to happen to them, ever.

Well said, Sometimes in life you just have to step back and reflect on what’s important and why we do this. The answer is the Lols obviously .

 

[SeanMoneyHands]

They badly miss Spezza, he was the heart and soul in their bottom 6. Who is their real leader up front? Maybe it's time their 10.5M dollar captain steps up and becomes a real leader.

 

[BCNate]

They got rid of him because he was a reason they couldn't get out of the first round because of his untimely suspensions. The fan pressure to move him was big.

The screw up was the return. Getting a D made sense but they didn't need Barrie. Barrie is good but wasn't a good complement to their D.

I agree 100%. An all offense, no defense team trades their best defensive forward for an offensive D. That was such a bizarre move.

 

[LOFIN]

They got rid of him because he was a reason they couldn't get out of the first round because of his untimely suspensions. The fan pressure to move him was big.

The screw up was the return. Getting a D made sense but they didn't need Barrie. Barrie is good but wasn't a good complement to their D.

Suspensions probably expedited the schedule, but Kadri was going to go the minute they signed John Tavares. He was their best trade chip to improve the team, and was totally miscast as a 3rd line C, as awesome as that kind of depth would've been. Just not really going to happen in today's NHL.

Had there not been that suspension, they probably could have waited for a better fit. They wanted Brodie from Calgary, remember? Instead they pulled the trigger with Barrie & Kerfoot, which in hindsight was absolutely one of the worst moves Dubas made.

I've said this for a long time, the root cause for a lot of the issues with the Leafs is the Tavares contract. Probably should not have signed him in the first place, and certainly not for that caphit. On the other hand, when a legit super star (at least then he was) wants to come to his hometown team, I think Dubas probably didn't have full autonomy on that decision either.

 

[PaulD]

I agree 100%. An all offense, no defense team trades their best defensive forward for an offensive D. That was such a bizarre move.

Dumb move is a more accurate description

 

[jcs0218]

 

[Artemi Panarin]

A surprise to who?

 

[Frosty415]

Wait, so you think the Leafs should have played Samsonov the first game against the team that finished 32nd in the league instead of the team that released him regardless of Samsonov's wishes to justify that Samsonov is the starter. THEN, and only then, would you accept that Murray is not given the starter role?

The Leafs made it clear all training camp that they're running a tandem and that the starting position is open. I'm not saying Murray was traded for as the backup or the starter. He was going to get the same opportunities as Samsonov. If Murray was putting up a .920 save percentage, and Samsonov was struggling, Murray would be starting. The position is open for any goalie who plays better. The Leafs bet one goalie would outperform the other, they didn't have to bet which one it would be.

Yeah, Dubas took a gamble on this goalie. He was fully expecting him to either outplay Samsonov or be the backup. Where did I dispute that?

I'm saying Murray was not given the starter position, and the Leafs don't have to justify a contract they didn't sign. They got paid to take Murray. They were optimistic, I'm sure, that he could regain his form or that Samsonov could fulfill his potential. If the season continues to trend the same way, Samsonov would be the starter and Murray would be the backup. If Murray comes back and puts up .950, then he'd be the starter? Both goalies will be UFA's in 2 years, so the Leafs have no dog in the race - make the best goalie win.

I've never seen such cope for justifying the Murray acquisition.

Like dude, it's ok to hold your GM accountable

 

[Mr Positive]

This start is bad, but I don't see how it should get such an overreaction.

1.) There's a ton of the criticism making this an extension of problems that date back a long time. I believe every season ought to have a fair bit of a blank slate. Relatedly, I hear a lot of people in a mood to bash the Leafs saying that they expect the Leafs to start winning, but the thrust of the point is that if that happens, it doesn't matter because the problems are still there. So... again it has little to do with how they are doing atm

2.) This is still very much the early season where weird things happen to teams, good and bad

3.) The Leafs should be in a place where the regular season almost doesn't matter. Getting knocked out of the first round so often means that the season seems meaningless. The focus even now is the spring. It's a fair stance to have imo.

4.) They do have an injury issue now. I know Murray gets criticism but he was an interesting add, so missing him is rough. It's also apparent that losing what Muzzin brought is signficant. I know that these guys are imperfect and have had injury issues, but everyone leans on players like this at some point. Injury issues are the #1 underrated factor in team success.

 

[Ace]

You know who doesn’t get loser points?

Winners.

 

[ffh]

You know who doesn’t get loser points?

Winners.

Don’t know if you call the team that wins a skill competition a winner. 3on3 and shootouts are just gimmicks nothing to do with hockey. Both teams got 1 point for the tie and one gets 1 more point for out gimmicking the other team