Toronto has scored 11PPGs since Marner injury

[Doublerum1975]

You want to go.into the playoffs with 16 on pp1 still? It seems appeasing 16 is more important than results

You keep thinking that

 

[ShaneFalco]

You keep thinking that

And yet to some taking him off the #1 unit is crazy. 2 calendar years without a pp goal and he's predictable but we must leave him there

 

[Doublerum1975]

And yet to some taking him off the #1 unit is crazy. 2 calendar years without a pp goal and he's predictable but we must leave him there

I agree with some of what you say i think he would be better on the second unit he looks to pass way to much

 

[Griffin76]

Not enough puck to go around. Puck is on Marner and Rielly's sticks too much. They are great passers but they don't shoot. PK just backs off and has 4 guys covering the other 3. Matthews and Nylander need to become the primary options, the way they were when the PP was hot. Either on the same PP or separate. Gotta stop deferring to Marner for 1:25 out of every 2 minutes. Same reason I don't like Marner and Matthews together 5 on 5. Matthews becomes a passenger. With Kase and Bunting he had to drive it.

 

[ACC1224]

PP is too stationary. Matthews was forcing too many shots and the other 4 pretty much stood in their spots with little movement. The times they were forced to move for puck retrieval they just returned to their spots. Not sure what the thinking was but they have to have some more creative systems ready to go. Perhaps they didn’t want to show them as yet.

 

[Notsince67]

I’m pretty sure Willy’s 2 goals made up for that

I'm pretty sure that it is completely irrelevant to his comment. Do you have a comprehension issue?

 

[Peasy]

Honestly I am fine with the unit how it is - but the team really needs to have adjustments in game and between powerplays.

Ottawa knew what the Leafs were attempting . They backed off Marner and overcomitted on taking away the seam pass to Matthews, while also sticking tight to Nylander and Tavares. Marner only then had the choice for a low percentage pass, to restart the pressure with a pass back to 44, or shoot it. With having 0 powerplay goals in nearly 100 straight games, that means everything Marner had a choice to do was low percentage. This was repeated for 5 straight powerplays.

Why not once they see how they cover Marner's passes - rotate him and Nylander.
Make the powerplay fluid.

This is what they were doing when the PP was finally clicking, but for some reason went right back to what they were doing all of last year last night... You know the year where Marner couldn't even score a single PP goal despite probably having the puck the most out of any player on the Leafs on the PP.

 

[ryno23]

Marner needs to be on the side of the net and used down low. You need a shooter on each wall and that is Nylander and Matthews. The penalty killers now need to respect each side and can't sag down knowing muffin Marner shot is not a threat.

Give the puck to Marner down low and force the PK unit to turn their backs and watch Marner with the puck. Now guys can sneak around to get in better shooting lanes as all eyes are on Marner down low. Boston's PP you don't see their set up man on the sidewall you see him down low to feed the bumper (Bergeron) or cross ice to Pasta.

I wonder if Paul Marner had it written in Mitch's contract that he needs to be on PP1 and on the side wall....haha

 

[Mess]

6 PP opportunities and Zero Goals.

Marner's return, and return to the PP #1 unit to disappointment again looking stale and stagnant and predictable which makes it easily defensible.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Marner needs to be on the side of the net and used down low. You need a shooter on each wall and that is Nylander and Matthews. The penalty killers now need to respect each side and can't sag down knowing muffin Marner shot is not a threat.

Give the puck to Marner down low and force the PK unit to turn their backs and watch Marner with the puck. Now guys can sneak around to get in better shooting lanes as all eyes are on Marner down low. Boston's PP you don't see their set up man on the sidewall you see him down low to feed the bumper (Bergeron) or cross ice to Pasta.

I wonder if Paul Marner had it written in Mitch's contract that he needs to be on PP1 and on the side wall....haha

I mean that's what bothers me the most - it seems theres side deals made - Joe Thornton playing every game in key situations, Simmonds of last year the same, and 16 continuing to drive a predictable, stagnant PP with no goals in over 100 games

 

[Gallagbi]

PP is too stationary. Matthews was forcing too many shots and the other 4 pretty much stood in their spots with little movement. The times they were forced to move for puck retrieval they just returned to their spots. Not sure what the thinking was but they have to have some more creative systems ready to go. Perhaps they didn’t want to show them as yet.

Moving Marner downlow seems to be an obvious solution. It allows him and Matthews to play catch, takes Marner out of a shooting spot, and forces him to move his feet more

 

[Dekes For Days]

5 pps tonight so far.

Mitch by far the most touches, and the only guy with space to shoot....but won't shoot. Tavares and Willy have barely touched the puck.
The few times he gets a pass through the shooters have no real time to shoot, with the defense and goalie ready and waiting.
Also messed up a couple zone entries.

Let's take a look at how accurate your eyes and claims actually are.

1. First off, it was 4.25 PPs. The last one got cut short when Tavares fumbled the puck and then took a penalty, and then the top unit didn't get any time for the one in the 3rd.

2. As for your claim that Mitch had "by far the most touches" and "Tavares and Nylander barely touched the puck", I went back and counted in-zone touches:

Matthews: 25
Marner: 15
Rielly: 13
Tavares: 11
Nylander: 10

As you can see, Matthews actually had by far the most touches, and none of the other 4 were that far off each other. I'm surprised you missed Nylander passing to nobody multiple times to lose in-zone possession, and Tavares fumbling the puck, colliding with Matthews, and taking a penalty.

3. As for your claim that Marner was the "only guy with space to shoot" and he "wouldn't shoot", I also went back and looked through for that. Matthews had the most shot attempts and shots that got through to the goalie. Marner also wasn't afraid to shoot. He made 4 shot attempts; 1 hit the net, 2 were blocked or deflected (because contrary to your claim, the opposition does not give him any significant space or lanes), and 1 missed the net.

Our two best chances actually came off Marner passes. One where the puck deflected off the tip of the goalie's stick, just past Tavares in the crease, who would have had a tap-in, and one where he passed to Matthews in the slot for a bang-bang slot shot and rebound shot.

4. As for your claim that he "messed up a couple zone entries", I couldn't find a single one. In fact, I counted 7 zone entries and all were successful. 3 by Matthews, 3 by Nylander, and 1 by Marner; often coming off initial passes from Marner or Rielly.

And once we were in the zone, let's take a look at why we lost the zone...

-Tavares lost face-off
-Tavares lost face-off and subsequent board battle
-Tavares lost the puck trying to deke
-Tavares fumbled the puck and then took a penalty
-Matthews missed his pass off a board battle
-Matthews pass intercepted for a 2 on 1 the other way
-Nylander bad pass to point
-Nylander bad pass to nobody
-Marner pass deflected, cleared as Matthews and Tavares collide with each other
-Marner missed shot

Conclusion: Your eyes aren't nearly as accurate as you think they are, and your claims singling out and blaming Marner for our top unit not scoring last night are ridiculous. They've been off for weeks, half the team is coming back from Covid and/or injuries, and they all looked rusty, so it's pretty silly to be drawing conclusions at all from like 4 minutes of PP time last night, but if we're going to point fingers, there's a lot to point at before we get to Marner.

 

[ShaneFalco]

I think this is just a troll job at this poinr

 

[Racer88]

I'm pretty sure that it is completely irrelevant to his comment. Do you have a comprehension issue?

I have no issues. I’m pretty sure scoring 2 goals in the game makes up for 1 bad move on the PP………how did golden boy do. Oh wait, nothing.
I sure hope you can understand that

 

[Peasy]

My man really went back and watched every powerplay and wrote a dissertation to defend Mitch Marner's honour

I now task you with recording the total amount of time each person had with the puck on the pp.

 

[Caroline Says ll]

I understand that some posters are too dramatic with how they want Marner off the powerplay and blame everything on him with the powerplay struggles.

It comes down to coaching not addressing an obvious flaw. Does anyone here like Marner on the halfwall running the powerplay for the first unit? Do you enjoy watching it?

 

[Dekes For Days]

My man really went back and watched every powerplay and wrote a dissertation to defend Mitch Marner's honour

Watching the in-zone PP time and entries of the top unit and recording some simple data took all of about 10 minutes. There's no dissertation; just some simple fact-checking in order to correct some clearly inaccurate claims. And it's not about "defending Mitch Marner's honour". It's about being accurate and truthful instead of pushing false narratives.

 

[Havoc]

Let's take a look at how accurate your eyes and claims actually are.

1. First off, it was 4.25 PPs. The last one got cut short when Tavares fumbled the puck and then took a penalty, and then the top unit didn't get any time for the one in the 3rd.

2. As for your claim that Mitch had "by far the most touches" and "Tavares and Nylander barely touched the puck", I went back and counted in-zone touches:

Matthews: 25
Marner: 15
Rielly: 13
Tavares: 11
Nylander: 10

As you can see, Matthews actually had by far the most touches, and none of the other 4 were that far off each other. I'm surprised you missed Nylander passing to nobody multiple times to lose in-zone possession, and Tavares fumbling the puck, colliding with Matthews, and taking a penalty.

3. As for your claim that Marner was the "only guy with space to shoot" and he "wouldn't shoot", I also went back and looked through for that. Matthews had the most shot attempts and shots that got through to the goalie. Marner also wasn't afraid to shoot. He made 4 shot attempts; 1 hit the net, 2 were blocked or deflected (because contrary to your claim, the opposition does not give him any significant space or lanes), and 1 missed the net.

Our two best chances actually came off Marner passes. One where the puck deflected off the tip of the goalie's stick, just past Tavares in the crease, who would have had a tap-in, and one where he passed to Matthews in the slot for a bang-bang slot shot and rebound shot.

4. As for your claim that he "messed up a couple zone entries", I couldn't find a single one. In fact, I counted 7 zone entries and all were successful. 3 by Matthews, 3 by Nylander, and 1 by Marner; often coming off initial passes from Marner or Rielly.

And once we were in the zone, let's take a look at why we lost the zone...

-Tavares lost face-off
-Tavares lost face-off and subsequent board battle
-Tavares lost the puck trying to deke
-Tavares fumbled the puck and then took a penalty
-Matthews missed pass off a board battle
-Matthews pass intercepted for a 2 on 1 the other way
-Nylander bad pass to point
-Nylander bad pass
-Marner pass deflected, cleared as Matthews and Tavares collide with each other
-Marner missed shot

Conclusion: Your eyes aren't nearly as accurate as you think they are, and your claims singling out and blaming Marner for our top unit not scoring last night are ridiculous. They've been off for weeks, half the team is coming back from Covid and/or injuries, and they all looked rusty, so it's pretty silly to be drawing conclusions at all from like 4 minutes of PP time last night, but if we're going to point fingers, there's a lot to point at before we get to Marner.

I think it's obvious the main concern from last night isn't negative things players did individually. It's the patterns and foundation that have sunk our PP the last 2 years that have people worried and majority of these patterns are due to Marner being on PP1. If the patterns were excellent nobody would be complaining today, it would be more "oh man when the rust comes off that PP is going to light it up".....we saw nothing from last nights PP that suggests it has the ability to light the lamp at a top 10 frequency moving forward. It was the "different year, same me" powerplay.

Please enlighten us to what plays you saw last night and over the past 1.5-2 years that suggest otherwise. Are you arguing that the unit needed 2 years of development time and the rewards from our patience are coming soon? It's a bit shocking how you're putting one player ahead of the entire team. It's not the end of the world if Marner is sent to quarterback PP2.

 

[Mess]

I think this is just a troll job at this point

When you have a star player there is a built in feeling/obligation you need to play him, even in the stats say otherwise.

Marner at the point is SOOOOO predictable to easily defend because ..

1) Nobody fears Marner's point shot that it needs to be blocked or defended, so a 5v4 really becomes a 4v4 in terms of who to defend.
2) Marner is a pass first player looking to filter pucks through the box and teams know this and setup to defend this, with sticks in lanes etc.
3) Even Leafs management understand these shortcomings to the PP, so they have attempted to move Marner to other spots including the bumper spot in front of the net, but then Marner's lack of strength and size make him vulnerable to physical abuse and contact is something Marner tries to avoid like the plague, because of the risk of injury.

The only spot for Marner on the PP is down low behind the icing line and setting up behind the net (like Wayne Gretzky) where he is not expected to score, but might be able to tap in an occasional rebound in crease, but set up his shooters as priority #1.

Hopefully come playoff time this problem is resolved as you need an effective PP to advance in the playoffs.

 

[ACC1224]

Moving Marner downlow seems to be an obvious solution. It allows him and Matthews to play catch, takes Marner out of a shooting spot, and forces him to move his feet more

Agreed. Love to know what their thought process is on this.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Is it the coach?
Is it Dubas making 16 promises?
Are they worried about his feelings?
Do they honestly think he's the best fit there? Does another coach have to be fired?

It's beyond the point of ridiculous now as it became with Jumbo.

 

[Dekes For Days]

I think it's obvious the main concern from last night isn't negative things players did individually.

Tell that to the person I responded to (and the multiple people after), who have targeted Marner specifically and exclusively for last night's results, based on claims and narratives that are factually untrue. And actually, there were some negative things that players did individually that didn't help last night, but because those things weren't done by Marner, they seem to have been dismissed and forgotten, in favour of defaulting back to blaming Marner.

It's the patterns and foundation that have sunk our PP the last 2 years that have people worried

We have a top-5 PP over the past 2 years, for the record, despite a really bad stretch last year that everybody on that unit contributed to, and despite underutilizing our stacked unit. I understand that the cold stretch last year freaked people out, but our PP is not "sunk".

and majority of these patterns are due to Marner being on PP1.

Except they're really not. So many claims about our PP, how it runs, how it's defended, and what goes wrong when it's not working are incorrect or incomplete, and I showed a bit of that in my post.

we saw nothing from last nights PP that suggests it has the ability to light the lamp at a top 10 frequency moving forward.

You really shouldn't be evaluating PPs off single games, but that's also not true. Despite coming off Covid and injuries and 3 weeks off, looking pretty rusty, and throwing away possession a number of times, they had a decent amount of zone time and a number of good looks. Our two best ones actually set up by Marner.

It's a bit shocking how you're putting one player ahead of the entire team.

I'm not at all. The team takes priority. The team benefits from a talent like Marner on the PP.

It's not the end of the world if Marner is sent to quarterback PP2.

It's not the end of the world if Marner remains on PP1, despite what some people claim.

 

[TheScandal89]

Does anyone know the stat for Tavares' faceoff percentage to open up PPs? I feel like that is pretty low, I swear it seems like he'll lose maybe 3 out of every 4.

 

[keonsbitterness]

I understand that some posters are too dramatic with how they want Marner off the powerplay and blame everything on him with the powerplay struggles.

It comes down to coaching not addressing an obvious flaw. Does anyone here like Marner on the halfwall running the powerplay for the first unit? Do you enjoy watching it?

No, and Ottawa was barely conscious last night.

I'm not opposed to keeping Marner on PP1 for the short term, but if he can't turn it around (as, for example, Rielly has), they need to make a change.

 

[Gabriel426]

It is their first game back. If they continue to struggle to score on PP, that’s where changes are needed.

Honestly, the skills players were all rusty last night. It is not a coincidence that those hard working and keep it simple players were the ones who played great.