Torey Krug Season Ending Surgery

[joe galiba]

The ignorance on this web site is truly mind bottling

having a albacore around their necks seems kind of fishy to me

 

[Louie the Blue]

The kings have a much better top 4 D and have better depth at forward.


Binnington & Hofer had a great year last year, but the Blues are worse on the back end and haven't added the play drivers to match up front. They've added better defensive forwards, but if that can't translate to clean zone entries and quality offensive possession, the team doesn't actually improve. People have been saying "better two way" as a stand in for better defensively, but those don't mean the same thing.

They have a better defense, yes, but I’d take the Blues goalie situation + the Blues top 3 forwards over LA’s. They might have more forwards that are worth something, but not that many that are high end that I’d currently take over some form of Buchnevich/Thomas/Kyrou.

How are the Blues worse on the backend this year vs last? If anything I think the forwards have improved and the defensive pairings are slightly better than last year.

 

[Thallis]

They have a better defense, yes, but I’d take the Blues goalie situation + the Blues top 3 forwards over LA’s. They might have more forwards that are worth something, but not that many that are high end that I’d currently take over some form of Buchnevich/Thomas/Kyrou.

How are the Blues worse on the backend this year vs last? If anything I think the forwards have improved and the defensive pairings are slightly better than last year.

Replacing Krug with Broberg or Suter is a massive downgrade. Krug was not good enough for his role or to justify his contract but he is a much better player in a 1 to 1 comparison. Replacing him with one of those 2 creates huge hole in the top 4 and puck moving from the defense is now a big weakness. Broberg has the potential to be a top 4 defender in the NHL but he is not that yet and struggled to keep a job on a thin defensive corps in Edmonton.

 

[HarrySPlinkett]

Is this the end of Krug playing in the NHL and going LTIretire or do we think Surgery will get him back on track?

Blues' Torey Krug emotional after decision to undergo season-ending ankle surgery

Torey Krug was emotional and contemplative while speaking to reporters on Wednesday following the announcement that he had chosen to undergo season-ending surgery on his ankle.

www.google.com

Already?

But it’s not even the season yet!

 

[saska sault]

Really wanted him on Detroit a few years ago...glad in a sense it didn't work out because the timing was not good during the rebuild. Exciting player to watch, hope he returns to health and gets back on the ice.

 

[KrisLetAngry]

Already?

But it’s not even the season yet!

Guess this has been a problem a long time. Seems surgery + time off to heal. He may come back next year. I hope he does. Great player just hate it when young guys have these problems.

 

[McGarnagle]

I loved Krug, great puck mover and PP guy in his prime, and lack of size was compensated for by pairing him with Chara. Great guy too and easy to root for. But Sweeney really made the right call in ghosting him in the contact negotiations and the Blues were insane to give him that contract.

 

[Bank Shot]

Not worried about the goaltending.

Holloway is also 22 and already showing signs of being a two-way player. And he should definitely improve in that area with more experience, which we will provide to him better than Edmonton.

You don’t consider them impact players because they don’t put up big numbers. Those guys absolutely impact games on the PK (where we have been weak lately) and in the defensive zone. It makes a difference.

Holloway didn't even play the PK.

And a guy like Ryan Suter looked finished as a third pairing guy last year. And Faksa wasn't even a regular player in the playoffs.

They aren't impact players because they are fringe players. Seems like you are imagining bigger impacts from these guys than is actually realistic.

 

[TK 421]

Replacing Krug with Broberg or Suter is a massive downgrade. Krug was not good enough for his role or to justify his contract but he is a much better player in a 1 to 1 comparison. Replacing him with one of those 2 creates huge hole in the top 4 and puck moving from the defense is now a big weakness. Broberg has the potential to be a top 4 defender in the NHL but he is not that yet and struggled to keep a job on a thin defensive corps in Edmonton.

Can you walk me through why you think Broberg will be a massive downgrade on Krug? I'm having a tough time squaring that with his high end skating, the zone exits I've seen from him etc. I know you look at underlying metrics a lot so I'm sure you have a reason but it just seemed off to me at first glance.

To me Krug doesn't have much transitional ability outside his passing and is more reliant on forwards providing him with an outlet while Broberg has size, tremendous skating ability and speed which give him more options to transition pucks out of his own end. Krug is not a strong skater and isn't fast either. He's very good in the offensive zone and his short passing game is excellent on the PP but that and a great work ethic appear to be all he brings at this point at least from what I can see. Anyway I'd love to hear what your thought process is on this.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Blows my mind that they missed the playoffs by six points when they were absolute dog water by possession metrics last year. 48% goal share at 5v5.

Their expected goal share was 43.65%.
Only two teams worse in the NHL were SJ and Chicago. You don't get out chanced that badly and come close to playoffs two seasons in a row.

Under Berube it's interesting. Blues weren't that great under him in that regard, but they can be better maybe under Bannister with a proper off season and getting his system tweaked and the remnants of Berube's washed away. The best was their cup year under Berube and then it just slowly got worse over time under him. They weren't that bad before him in that area as well.

Should be a fun experiment in Toronto lol.

From 2014-2018 they were 6th to 13th overall in expected goals. 2018-19 they were 5th, won the cup. Then in order from 5th to 15th, 27th, 21st, 28th, and 30th.

 

[Thallis]

Can you walk me through why you think Broberg will be a massive downgrade on Krug? I'm having a tough time squaring that with his high end skating, the zone exits I've seen from him etc. I know you look at underlying metrics a lot so I'm sure you have a reason but it just seemed off to me at first glance.

To me Krug doesn't have much transitional ability outside his passing and is more reliant on forwards providing him with an outlet while Broberg has size, tremendous skating ability and speed which give him more options to transition pucks out of his own end. Krug is not a strong skater and isn't fast either. He's very good in the offensive zone and his short passing game is excellent on the PP but that and a great work ethic appear to be all he brings at this point at least from what I can see. Anyway I'd love to hear what your thought process is on this.

First off, passing is the most important part of the transition game. Making the right read, making a good first pass, and retrievals are the most important parts of the breakout. Broberg has struggled with all 3 parts of this throughout his career, which has been the main obstacle in him becoming a regular NHL player. Krug is average on retrievals but significantly better on the other two portions in a much more difficult role than Broberg has been given in his career aside from 5 games in the cup final (which he got kind of caved in from a chances perspective). Skating the puck out of the zone is a decent option, but when you're reliant on it as your primary source of breakout, you run into offensive problems like Parayko has.

Passing moves the puck up ice faster, changes the angle of attack, and creates odd man rushes. Skating gives yourself more room to make a play and clears the zone, but it's predictable, energy consuming, an allows the defense to have a structured answer. This doesn't mean it's never a good option, but you want it to be a secondary option to keep forecheckers guessing instead of your main tool. Krug was undoubtedly the Blues best puck moving and offensive defenseman. Losing him makes Leddy the best on that front which is a scary prospect for a defense.

As a side note, it makes me feel like I'm taking crazy pills when I have to explain that a player who has been an established top 4 defender in the league for a decade is a better player than someone who has never had a regular job. Broberg has 13 points in his career over 3 years on a defense that isn't exactly deep 1-6. In those 10 years, krig's worst even strength seasons have produced more in fewer games than that. This isn't a guy who has shown he's a solid player in a 3rd pairing role and is ready to take another step, it's someone who has struggled to stay in the league who needs to establish themselves as a player.

 

[westc2]

This is no surprise to Blues fans at all. We've known about this for a while now but now it's official that he's getting the surgery. They've already replaced him. Krug was bad last year...I wonder if this injury is why.

Holloway didn't even play the PK.

And a guy like Ryan Suter looked finished as a third pairing guy last year. And Faksa wasn't even a regular player in the playoffs.

They aren't impact players because they are fringe players. Seems like you are imagining bigger impacts from these guys than is actually realistic.

People said the same thing about O'Reilly, Schenn, Buchnevich when they came to the Blues as well. The Blues have a tendency to go after players who they know will be a good fit for the team and will fit the coach's playstyle.

 

[TK 421]

First off, passing is the most important part of the transition game. Making the right read, making a good first pass, and retrievals are the most important parts of the breakout. Broberg has struggled with all 3 parts of this throughout his career, which has been the main obstacle in him becoming a regular NHL player. Krug is average on retrievals but significantly better on the other two portions in a much more difficult role than Broberg has been given in his career aside from 5 games in the cup final (which he got kind of caved in from a chances perspective). Skating the puck out of the zone is a decent option, but when you're reliant on it as your primary source of breakout, you run into offensive problems like Parayko has.

Passing moves the puck up ice faster, changes the angle of attack, and creates odd man rushes. Skating gives yourself more room to make a play and clears the zone, but it's predictable, energy consuming, an allows the defense to have a structured answer. This doesn't mean it's never a good option, but you want it to be a secondary option to keep forecheckers guessing instead of your main tool. Krug was undoubtedly the Blues best puck moving and offensive defenseman. Losing him makes Leddy the best on that front which is a scary prospect for a defense.

As a side note, it makes me feel like I'm taking crazy pills when I have to explain that a player who has been an established top 4 defender in the league for a decade is a better player than someone who has never had a regular job. Broberg has 13 points in his career over 3 years on a defense that isn't exactly deep 1-6. In those 10 years, krig's worst even strength seasons have produced more in fewer games than that. This isn't a guy who has shown he's a solid player in a 3rd pairing role and is ready to take another step, it's someone who has struggled to stay in the league who needs to establish themselves as a player.

Thanks for the response, we have different views on these two guys so no wonder your post caught my attention.

Torey is undoubtedly an excellent puck manager in general, no argument from me there and I'll throw in his IQ is also an asset. His passing game is his best attribute but unfortunately he doesn't have the skating ability, speed or size to make use of that skill set fully which leads directly to a limited usage profile. You cited him as a top 4 but he's best as a 3rd pair guy getting sheltered minutes or running a PP. Not exactly an offensive dynamo anymore either without his old linemates in Boston and he's gotten exposed for being small and slow as he's aged. Krug was once a force but he came with limitations that have only become more pronounced over time though I think he was pretty solid last season where he did indeed play top 4 minutes and did so absent Faulk at times. I can see downgrade as a possibility but crazy pills for thinking Broberg COULD be better given a bigger opportunity? Ok I guess I'm optimistically crazy that he could actually be an upgrade given the physical disparities between these two players. One is 23 years old, 6'4, 212 lbs and a tremendous skater. The other is 5'9, 185 lbs, old, slow and broken. Now Broberg has to actually do something with the opportunity of course but he's being given the chance here so this will be a fun storyline to follow. I suppose it really comes down to what kind of transitional skills Broberg can show along with what type of role he can actually handle here. He has several RD options here to play with and one or more could be good fits so I guess we'll see where it all lands.

 

[Thallis]

Thanks for the response, we have different views on these two guys so no wonder your post caught my attention.

Torey is undoubtedly an excellent puck manager in general, no argument from me there and I'll throw in his IQ is also an asset. His passing game is his best attribute but unfortunately he doesn't have the skating ability, speed or size to make use of that skill set fully which leads directly to a limited usage profile. You cited him as a top 4 but he's best as a 3rd pair guy getting sheltered minutes or running a PP. Not exactly an offensive dynamo anymore either without his old linemates in Boston and he's gotten exposed for being small and slow as he's aged. Krug was once a force but he came with limitations that have only become more pronounced over time though I think he was pretty solid last season where he did indeed play top 4 minutes and did so absent Faulk at times. I can see downgrade as a possibility but crazy pills for thinking Broberg COULD be better given a bigger opportunity? Ok I guess I'm optimistically crazy that he could actually be an upgrade given the physical disparities between these two players. One is 23 years old, 6'4, 212 lbs and a tremendous skater. The other is 5'9, 185 lbs, old, slow and broken. Now Broberg has to actually do something with the opportunity of course but he's being given the chance here so this will be a fun storyline to follow. I suppose it really comes down to what kind of transitional skills Broberg can show along with what type of role he can actually handle here. He has several RD options here to play with and one or more could be good fits so I guess we'll see where it all lands.

Krug's contract and play in the defensive end have been problems for the Blues, but he's been the best offensive defenseman on the roster since he joined. If he were paid Broberg's salary and played the minutes of a #4 instead of a 2/3, I think we would have a much better opinion of him. As disappointing as he's been, he's not an addition by subtraction player like Ceci or Suter.

As for Broberg, the bet with him is that he grows into the top 4 role over time, not that he's there now. He has the physical tools to do so for sure, and has done a pretty good job with entry defense so far in his career, but he played 22 games at the NHL level last season in a situation that should not have been prohibitive for a young player to navigate. Ask yourself this, if we had traded a 2nd for Brett Kulak and planned to pair him with Faulk would you still think we're better on defense? That's the baseline he wasn't overcoming last season. I find it an unreasonable expectation to consider that as better than Krug.

 

[Bank Shot]

People said the same thing about O'Reilly, Schenn, Buchnevich when they came to the Blues as well. The Blues have a tendency to go after players who they know will be a good fit for the team and will fit the coach's playstyle.

They brought in mostly cast offs from other teams.

I mean the Blues traded Patrik Berglund, Vladimir Sobotka, a 1st rounder, a 2nd rounder, and Tage Thompson for O'Rielly.

They acquired Faksa and Joseph for future considerations.

Why are you trying to paint this as a similar situation?

Its not even close.

 

[Xerloris]

First off, passing is the most important part of the transition game. Making the right read, making a good first pass, and retrievals are the most important parts of the breakout. Broberg has struggled with all 3 parts of this throughout his career, which has been the main obstacle in him becoming a regular NHL player. Krug is average on retrievals but significantly better on the other two portions in a much more difficult role than Broberg has been given in his career aside from 5 games in the cup final (which he got kind of caved in from a chances perspective). Skating the puck out of the zone is a decent option, but when you're reliant on it as your primary source of breakout, you run into offensive problems like Parayko has.

Passing moves the puck up ice faster, changes the angle of attack, and creates odd man rushes. Skating gives yourself more room to make a play and clears the zone, but it's predictable, energy consuming, an allows the defense to have a structured answer. This doesn't mean it's never a good option, but you want it to be a secondary option to keep forecheckers guessing instead of your main tool. Krug was undoubtedly the Blues best puck moving and offensive defenseman. Losing him makes Leddy the best on that front which is a scary prospect for a defense.

As a side note, it makes me feel like I'm taking crazy pills when I have to explain that a player who has been an established top 4 defender in the league for a decade is a better player than someone who has never had a regular job. Broberg has 13 points in his career over 3 years on a defense that isn't exactly deep 1-6. In those 10 years, krig's worst even strength seasons have produced more in fewer games than that. This isn't a guy who has shown he's a solid player in a 3rd pairing role and is ready to take another step, it's someone who has struggled to stay in the league who needs to establish themselves as a player.

The only reason Krug has had a roster spot in the NHL is because of the power play. You're delusional if you think Broberg and Suter are not defensive upgrades over Krug. Btw our PP sucked last year even with Krug so it's not like it matters. It's nice to see you still trying to pretend Armstrong hasn't had a good offseason.

They brought in mostly cast offs from other teams.

I mean the Blues traded Patrik Berglund, Vladimir Sobotka, a 1st rounder, a 2nd rounder, and Tage Thompson for O'Rielly.

They acquired Faksa and Joseph for future considerations.

Why are you trying to paint this as a similar situation?

Its not even close.

The players you're calling cast offs were brought in to be bottom 6 players. They are significant upgrades over our bottom 6 from last year. We were essentially a 2 line team last year and that's putting it nicely. Even as a 2 line team we nearly made the playoffs so if we can throw out an extra 2 lines that aren't 120% terrible then we're doing much better than we were.

 

[Reality Czech]

With the Blues primed for a lengthy rebuild there’s no reason to rush him back even next year

Unfortunate and hopefully he can get back in the future but I wouldn’t be surprised if this was the end

A lengthy rebuild? You're out of your element Donny.

 

[Thallis]

This is no surprise to Blues fans at all. We've known about this for a while now but now it's official that he's getting the surgery. They've already replaced him. Krug was bad last year...I wonder if this injury is why.


People said the same thing about O'Reilly, Schenn, Buchnevich when they came to the Blues as well. The Blues have a tendency to go after players who they know will be a good fit for the team and will fit the coach's playstyle.

What???? Nobody called those players cast offs or fringe players. Every single one of those players were considered impact players at the time of trade. What are we even saying here?

 

[KevinFinnerty]

Blues are a good team with a lot of good pieces all this rebuild talk is nonsense

 

[Louie the Blue]

First off, passing is the most important part of the transition game. Making the right read, making a good first pass, and retrievals are the most important parts of the breakout. Broberg has struggled with all 3 parts of this throughout his career, which has been the main obstacle in him becoming a regular NHL player. Krug is average on retrievals but significantly better on the other two portions in a much more difficult role than Broberg has been given in his career aside from 5 games in the cup final (which he got kind of caved in from a chances perspective). Skating the puck out of the zone is a decent option, but when you're reliant on it as your primary source of breakout, you run into offensive problems like Parayko has.

Passing moves the puck up ice faster, changes the angle of attack, and creates odd man rushes. Skating gives yourself more room to make a play and clears the zone, but it's predictable, energy consuming, an allows the defense to have a structured answer. This doesn't mean it's never a good option, but you want it to be a secondary option to keep forecheckers guessing instead of your main tool. Krug was undoubtedly the Blues best puck moving and offensive defenseman. Losing him makes Leddy the best on that front which is a scary prospect for a defense.

As a side note, it makes me feel like I'm taking crazy pills when I have to explain that a player who has been an established top 4 defender in the league for a decade is a better player than someone who has never had a regular job. Broberg has 13 points in his career over 3 years on a defense that isn't exactly deep 1-6. In those 10 years, krig's worst even strength seasons have produced more in fewer games than that. This isn't a guy who has shown he's a solid player in a 3rd pairing role and is ready to take another step, it's someone who has struggled to stay in the league who needs to establish themselves as a player.

Krug was (won’t say is because he’s out for the year) one of the best puck moving defensemen in his prime and played enough defense to justify playing him.

However, while Broberg is not as skilled as Krug as is with the puck, should be better positioned to stand his own as a top 4 D in his own end than Krug due to his height.

My problems with Krug were based on the construct of the defense outside of him (needing someone better than Scandella). Krug was adequately paid for what he was asked to do offensively.

 

[STL fan in MN]

Odd how a lot of this thread turned into how good the Blues are or aren’t and their playoff chances. I have my opinion but not the point of this thread.

Regarding Krug, this is a major surgery. Do yourself a favor and go google subtalar fusion. No wonder there’s no doubt he’s missing the entire season. He won’t even be weight bearing for many months. Won’t ever be able to rotate that foot/ankle side to side again. I don’t see how someone would be able to play hockey at the highest level in the world without that ability so I’d be surprised if this wasn’t career ending. And he seemed to know it in his press conference. That was tough to watch.

Subtalar fusion:

 

[TheDawnOfANewTage]

Odd how a lot of this thread turned into how good the Blues are or aren’t and their playoff chances. I have my opinion but not the point of this thread.

Regarding Krug, this is a major surgery. Do yourself a favor and go google subtalar fusion. No wonder there’s no doubt he’s missing the entire season. He won’t even be weight bearing for many months. Won’t ever be able to rotate that foot/ankle side to side again. I don’t see how someone would be able to play hockey at the highest level in the world without that ability so I’d be surprised if this wasn’t career ending. And he seemed to know it in his press conference. That was tough to watch.

Subtalar fusion:

A+ post.

 

[nturn06]

Can you walk me through why you think Broberg will be a massive downgrade on Krug? I'm having a tough time squaring that with his high end skating, the zone exits I've seen from him etc. I know you look at underlying metrics a lot so I'm sure you have a reason but it just seemed off to me at first glance.

Let me guess: you base your evaluation on 3 to 4 games you have seen Broberg play. He was actually pretty good in the last few games, but not too good in his other games. These 3-4 games could truly be a glimpse of the future, in which case Broberg is not a massive downgrade, but it seems more likely that this small sample is the exception. There are many players who were amazing for few games, but did not turn into stars.

I think even the management didn't sign him to be a Krug replacement next year, they signed him with the hope that in few seasons he may become one.

 

[McGarnagle]

This injury stems back to the 2018 playoffs when Krug was off-balance and Killorn drove him into the boards skate-first.

 

[TK 421]

Let me guess: you base your evaluation on 3 to 4 games you have seen Broberg play. He was actually pretty good in the last few games, but not too good in his other games. These 3-4 games could truly be a glimpse of the future, in which case Broberg is not a massive downgrade, but it seems more likely that this small sample is the exception. There are many players who were amazing for few games, but did not turn into stars.

I think even the management didn't sign him to be a Krug replacement next year, they signed him with the hope that in few seasons he may become one.

That's correct, I have very little to go off with Broberg other than watching a bit of recent footage of him so I'm not sure how he slots in however I am familiar with his new teammates and I know the Blues would like to dial back on what they're asking out of Nick Leddy. So naturally you start to play around with where the new guy will slot in and find the best defense pairs. My initial comment had to do with Thallis thinking he'd be a massive downgrade on Krug which I thought was a bit premature as a take considering we haven't see what he looks like with any of his new teammates yet.