Confirmed with Link: Torey Krug (7 years @ $6.5m)

[simon IC]

Am I happy that Pietrangelo is likely gone? No, of course not.
Do I think we are a better team with the moves made? Not necessarily.
Do I think the sky is falling? No it's not.
Will we be as good defensively? Probably not but it is important to remember our strength is TEAM defense.
Do I think we will still be a cup contender? Yes, I do.

Why? Because overall this is still a very good hockey team.

I am sad to see Pietrangelo go, he is one of my favorite Blues ever, but we will be fine. Many of us have seen this before, a lot us lived through Hull leaving and Pronger being traded for peanut but, and this is important to remember, the teams they left behind were significantly weaker than this current one. It sucks that Pietrangelo isn't a Blue but I will say this again, we will be fine.

I am not convinced that Krug, and especially Faulk, can be incorporated into a team defense-first system. They are both very much "do it all myself" kind of players. Even if they try to buy in, how much are the forwards expected to compensate for two defensively deficient defensemen in the top four? Three in the top six if Dunn stays. I get your point about surviving worse times, and you and I both were there, but I do not think we will be fine. We might be competitive, but we won't be contenders anymore.

 

[SneakerPimp82]

We will need to adjust.

Losing Bow and Petro in the same year is not going to bode well in terms of what we can do in the D-zone.

The solution is to keep spending time in our own zone to a minimum. Of course that would entail getting out as soon as we can (by having a top notched transition game); and have excellent possession in the O-zone (by having great zone entry and make creative and cohesive plays). I think we now actually have the D-corps personnel to do that now.

If Dunn resigns (big assumption which may not happen), and Perunovich makes the team (which I think is more likely than not); we would have one of the best groups of PMD in the league. We should take advantage of that. And the fact that nearly all of our forwards are good at possession and are competent at at least participating in plays up the ice really helps too (as long as we keep guys like DLR off the roster as much as possible).

I think it should be doable. The team will have a very different look, but should be entertaining as well. We will need to somehow get another forward that has a legitimate shot from the circle if Tank is out most of the season. We should have cap space to make that happen if Tank is out.

Mike Hoffman would be a welcome addition in this regard.

 

[EastVillageBlues]

Mike Hoffman would be a welcome addition in this regard.

Yeah, Hoffman is one of the ones that I have my eyes on.

Also someone like Dadonov, or possibly even Boedker or DuClair would potentially work.

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

I am not convinced that Krug, and especially Faulk, can be incorporated into a team defense-first system. They are both very much "do it all myself" kind of players. Even if they try to buy in, how much are the forwards expected to compensate for two defensively deficient defensemen in the top four? Three in the top six if Dunn stays. I get your point about surviving worse times, and you and I both were there, but I do not think we will be fine. We might be competitive, but we won't be contenders anymore.

You act like Krug wasn’t key part of Boston blueline when they were consistently among league best.

 

[Halak Ness Monster]

Parayko is a 1D though. He is not as good as Pietro, but you are going too far in saying the Blues lack a 1D. Parayko is most certainly in the top 31 D-men in the league, and probably in the top half of that group.

I don’t like this line of thinking. #1 Dmen are a lot like #1 centers, #1 QBs, #1 starting pitchers...just because you’re top 30 doesn’t mean you’re a true #1. Not every team is going to have a true #1. They’re difficult to find.

Parayko doesn’t have the offensive IQ and instincts to take over a game like a top dman can. I love his defensive and neutral zone game. The offensive side just isn’t quite there. We’ll see, though. Maybe it changes now that Petro is gone. I doubt it.

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

I don’t like this line of thinking. #1 Dmen are a lot like #1 centers, #1 QBs, #1 starting pitchers...just because you’re top 30 doesn’t mean you’re a true #1. Not every team is going to have a true #1. They’re difficult to find.

Parayko doesn’t have the offensive IQ and instincts to take over a game like a top dman can. I love his defensive and neutral zone game. The offensive side just isn’t quite there. We’ll see, though. Maybe it changes now that Petro is gone. I doubt it.

How many 1D are there?

 

[Halak Ness Monster]

Idk what language is needed to explain that it was never Krug and Faulk over Petro. Petro got offered the money he wants, just not the structure which has nothing to do with either of those signings.

One man’s opinion here but I think you have to take care of your MVP before you go handing out big dollars to far lesser players. Especially at the same exact position(offensive RH dman in Faulk)

The best course of action for the Blues was always to get Pietrangelo locked you long term. There really should have never been a plan B.

Now? We’re maaaaybe the 4th best team in the West(instead of the best) with two big contracts on D we have a strong chance of hating in 2 years. We already hate one of them.

 

[Halak Ness Monster]

How many 1D are there?

Less than 31.

 

[blues80]

Is petro circling back something stoped him

 

[stl76]

I am not convinced that Krug, and especially Faulk, can be incorporated into a team defense-first system. They are both very much "do it all myself" kind of players. Even if they try to buy in, how much are the forwards expected to compensate for two defensively deficient defensemen in the top four? Three in the top six if Dunn stays. I get your point about surviving worse times, and you and I both were there, but I do not think we will be fine. We might be competitive, but we won't be contenders anymore.

Simon, you've made your dislike of Faulk's game very clear, and I agree he was not very good last year. While I think you're putting too much stock into a single shortened season, you are of course entitled to your opinion on him. However, in regards to Krug, I would respectfully ask for you to keep an open mind about him and the rest of the d-core next season. They just might surprise us all.

Yeah, Hoffman is one of the ones that I have my eyes on.

Also someone like Dadonov, or possibly even Boedker or DuClair would potentially work.

Tyler Toffoli is the guy IMO. He will fit like a glove in our forward group.

 

[EastonBlues22]

You act like Krug wasn’t key part of Boston blueline when they were consistently among league best.

In what way?

Over the last three years when Boston has been at its best, he's been a huge part of their PP, he's generally been a liability at ES in spite of being one of their most sheltered defensemen, and he hasn't played the PK to any appreciable degree.

That's a useful niche player, and key in the sense that he was really important to the Bruins PP, but he's hasn't been one of the key driving forces for that team's defense at ES or on the PK.

 

[simon IC]

Simon, you've made your dislike of Faulk's game very clear, and I agree he was not very good last year. While I think you're putting too much stock into a single shortened season, you are of course entitled to your opinion on him. However, in regards to Krug, I would respectfully ask for you to keep an open mind about him and the rest of the d-core next season. They just might surprise us all.


Tyler Toffoli is the guy IMO. He will fit like a glove in our forward group.

As always, stl76, I appreciate your honest and respectful reply. Fair enough, I will try to keep an open mind in regards to Krug. There is one thing I need to make very clear, however. My familiarity with Justin Faulk's style of play goes back quite a bit. I read the trade boards voraciously, and I am constantly looking up stats and evaluations on players, and I like to a make a mental list of players that I would want on my team, and of those I wouldn't. As Faulk was in the last year of his contract, his name came up a lot on the trade boards. I got to read many insightful evaluations from Carolina fans. Because the Leafs were interested in a RD, I got to read Leafs fans observations as well, which of course provided a lot of reading material. Their posts were varied, and needed a bit more sifting, but were ultimately useful as well. In turn, this made me look up Faulk's career stats and whatever advanced stats I could comprehend at the time. The first thing I noticed was the abysmal +/- stats, but I kept in mind he was on a weak team with a history of bad goaltending. So I looked at more clips and continued reading the trade threads, and it wasn't long before I was convinced that I wanted absolutely no part of Justin Faulk. When I heard we traded for him, I almost threw my phone. So you see, my informed opinion of Justin Faulk goes a long way back, and my opposition to him being a Blue was right from the start. I assure you, my friend, my dislike of Faulk's play is not based in one shortened season.

 

[simon IC]

Btw, I am in exactly the same spot with Krug right now as I was when we acquired Faulk. (With the added bonus of getting to watch him for seven games in the SCF). I will keep my promise and keep an open mind. I hope Krug proves me wrong.

 

[Robb_K]

Btw, I am in exactly the same spot with Krug right now as I was when we acquired Faulk. (With the added bonus of getting to watch him for seven games in the SCF). I will keep my promise and keep an open mind. I hope Krug proves me wrong.

I'm in the same place, only, I hope beyond hope, that Pietrangelo will find no opportunities on the open market that he likes, and The Blues and he will reach a compromise, and The Blues will also be able to clear enough salary to re-sign him. I know the odds of that don't look good. But, I hate to see this split happening.

 

[TruBlu]

If Petro still wants to come there's room to be made. I can only imagine DA is still working to clear space anyway to make room for some forward help. Finding somewhere to package Dunn and Bozak together would probably be the ideal way to drop cap without having to retain. Right now seems like it is really hard to just make a trade for the sake of dropping cap. That might have something to do with the reasoning DA was so confident AP was going to have difficulty finding a better offer on a team that he'd actually want to go to. I think moving Dunn/Bozak and the tandem of Tank/Steen on LTIR makes the necessary room for now; at least to start the season.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

I think people need to think about what it really might cost to move cap dollars to make room for Pietrangelo coming back here.

Bozak + Dunn isn't a terrible cost (we can probably get decent value back), but then you're having to replace Bozak's spot. (Let's say that Krug = Dunn. Insert your own effective pun there.) There's not an obvious replacement for Bozak, and we're already down Tarasenko (which we managed last year) and Steen (who again, there's not an obvious replacement for and Clifford isn't it). Does that return get us a roster guy who plugs Bozak's spot? Doubtful; the goal here is to move salary, not take some back, so we probably don't want a roster guy in return. Plus, this kind of a deal makes Parayko the youngest defensemen in the current top-7 at age 27. More of them will be over 30 than under it, and Krug turns 30 in April. It puts even more pressure on the couple defensemen we have who have an NHL future to get up to speed sooner rather than later to take over for someone getting toward the oldish side of their career in the next year or two.

I think we could manage working around Tarasenko. Working around Tarasenko and Steen and Bozak? Thomas is going to have to take another step forward, Kyrou is going to have to "get it" quickly, and we probably still need contributions from elsewhere. That's really cutting into the margin of error we have.

If you don't do Bozak/Dunn, then here's our likely options:
-- Steen: no one is taking him at this point unless we're adding (future) assets to him and taking little to nothing back. Suggestion: don't do this.
-- Schwartz: this is a clear downgrade near-term, especially since we couldn't take a roster player back. Moving him would add future assets, but this would be a huge blow for playoff expectations going forward.
-- Parayko: see Schwartz, except now one has to argue that we've effectively swapped Parayko for Krug and we're better off as a result. I don't think anyone here will attempt to make that point.
-- Faulk: we gave up Edmundson and Bokk to get him; I don't see us getting something near that, especially in a world where the cap probably isn't moving for a couple years and he's taking up 6.5M on it. But, if you're OK with basically having shipped out Edmundson and Bokk for a year of a pretty mediocre Faulk, then swallow your pride and unload him to whoever will take him, for whatever you can get.
-- Scandella: wouldn't be enough, you'd probably have to package something with him. Plus, it's saying we got Scandella to replace Bouwmeester and now we're swapping Krug for that and we're better off - which I don't think anyone is going to say is true.

I think it's quaint to believe Pietrangelo could come back and Armstrong could move pieces to make it work and that it wouldn't hurt us short-term or long-term, but I think we need to accept reality: he's gone, and what we have right now is about what we should look forward to the roster being in 2021.

 

[Stealth JD]

Idk what language is needed to explain that it was never Krug and Faulk over Petro. Petro got offered the money he wants, just not the structure which has nothing to do with either of those signings.

It's really pretty simple. Had Armstrong not signed either of these guys, he'd be able to sign Petro to the $8.5 - $9.5M/yr contract likely needed to lock up Petro. Instead he's got a pair of middle-pairing defensemen paid at premiums, rather than a top-pairing defensemen signed to market-value.

 

[Vektor]

It's really pretty simple. Had Armstrong not signed either of these guys, he'd be able to sign Petro to the $8.5 - $9.5M/yr contract likely needed to lock up Petro. Instead he's got a pair of middle-pairing defensemen paid at premiums, rather than a top-pairing defensemen signed to market-value.

We can stop this conversation here. If you think Pietrangelo is worth more than Josi (pre covid at that), then we have nothing further to discuss.

 

[Stealth JD]

We can stop this conversation here. If you think Pietrangelo is worth more than Josi (pre covid at that), then we have nothing further to discuss.

it's not about whether you (or I) believe Pietrangelo is worth "more than Josi" (who is a better offensively and worse defensively). It's about finding the number needed to keep your team's Cup window open. If Josi was willing to sign for $6M/yr, does that mean Pietrangelo should be expected to do so as well? We're essentially watching the best defender this franchise has had in 15-years walk over what likely amounts to $1M/year (regardless of how it's structured)...an amount that otherwise could have been overcome by not spending money on guys that weren't needed. Feel free to stop the conversation whenever you'd like; but what is worse for the organization? Over-paying your star-player while keeping your championship window open; or watching your Cup-window slam shut because you'd prefer NOT to 'overpay' your star player, because you've instead chosen to over-pay inferior players?

And before anyone says "Army didn't overpay Krug or Faulk", ask yourselves just how easily it would be to move the latter, or why the former was so quick to put the pen to paper when that offer came in out of the blue? Army indeed 'got his guys' in free-agency; a period defined by over-payment and poor decision-making; yet wanted to squeeze his best player because of "organizational philosophy". Thank goodness the Blues were never in position to draft an Austin Matthews or Jack Eichel, because he'd refuse to pay them their value and instead probably prefer to load up with (moderately) cheaper guys.

 

[Halak Ness Monster]

We can stop this conversation here. If you think Pietrangelo is worth more than Josi (pre covid at that), then we have nothing further to discuss.

A little less than Josi(8.5 mil vs his 9.05 mil) and a full NMC. I couldn’t care less that we don’t normally give out a full NMC. This is your MVP. You make exceptions.

If we didn’t sign Krug then we could do that for 7 years easily right now. Remove one bad year at the end. Huge win for the Blues to not have to go 8 years.

I’m not sure why we rushed out to get Krug when the market for Petro looked weak on day one of free agency. I’d have been fine missing out on a PP specialist to get Petro signed.

 

[execwrite1]

Speculation - Stillman and Armstrong both got tired of Petro playing them. They made a final fair offer and he didn't take it.

 

[BlueKnight]

The market for Pietrangelo was weak on day 1. Armstrong couldn't even wait to let him make a decision? And we replace him with Krug. I blame Army for that one, If he didn't rushed, Pietrangelo still would've be here.

 

[Vektor]

A little less than Josi(8.5 mil vs his 9.05 mil) and a full NMC. I couldn’t care less that we don’t normally give out a full NMC. This is your MVP. You make exceptions.

If we didn’t sign Krug then we could do that for 7 years easily right now. Remove one bad year at the end. Huge win for the Blues to not have to go 8 years.

I’m not sure why we rushed out to get Krug when the market for Petro looked weak on day one of free agency. I’d have been fine missing out on a PP specialist to get Petro signed.

Why do you think nobody else has signed him for that amount yet? If this was such an obvious blunder from the Blues then don't you think someone else would have struck the deal?

 

[Halak Ness Monster]

Why do you think nobody else has signed him for that amount yet? If this was such an obvious blunder from the Blues then don't you think someone else would have struck the deal?

Simple: Covid hurt a lot of teams finances. Not just this year but next year with the shortened season. Not only did the salary cap not go up but there were no fans in the stands for the playoffs and maybe not even the start of next year(less likely). Revenues are shaky right now.

 

[Vektor]

Simple: Covid hurt a lot of teams finances. Not just this year but next year with the shortened season. Not only did the salary cap not go up but there were no fans in the stands for the playoffs and maybe not even the start of next year(less likely). Revenues are shaky right now.

And what makes you think this isn't the same reason the Blues didn't go above 8m to sign him?