Confirmed with Link: [TOR/WPG] TOR trades Par Lindholm to WPG for Nic Petan

[SprDaVE]

Tampa Bay and Nashville sure.


Not sure what Winnipeg has done to be considered objectively better. We are ahead in the standings and have more wins in a tough Conference. Nearly double the goal differential.

I don't understand why the Jets gets so much love to win the cup or as a cup contender. Blows my mind.

 

[Trapper]

Why? Our track record suggests that we should be more concerned about how we FINISH games against Boston in the playoffs.

Finish?
How about starting? We were rocked by Boston in the first 2 games of the series.
People remember game 7 because it’s the last one but win one of those first 2 games and there is no 7.

 

[Cor]

I don't understand why the Jets gets so much love to win the cup or as a cup contender. Blows my mind.

Grass is Greener with Toronto fans and media.

The Jets have a bigger cap crunch coming that we do, and it’s never talked about.

They are magically this cup contender and objectively better than us.

It doesn’t make sense to me. Yes, they are a good team. I’m not trying to take that away, but they have this rep, that frankly, they don’t deserve

 

[ACC1224]

A GM should be a wee bit more qualified for the art ofnteam building than a maitre'd is for the art of cooking.





losing to anyone other than tampa would be a disappointment, yeah.

Yes, building the Team not coaching a team.
Now if the GM has had previous coaching experience, that's a different matter.
GM provides the ingredients, the Coach creates the dish.

 

[Cor]

Yes, building the Team not coaching a team.
Now if the GM has had previous coaching experience, that's a different matter.
GM provides the ingredients, the Coach creates the dish.

Eh, the GM still needs to ensure the coach is using the ingredients properly.

 

[Warden of the North]

Winnipeg is 3-5-2 in their last 10.

Do people think that record is undeserved?

Every team plays part games. Sometimes good teams dont show up at all.

 

[ACC1224]

Eh, the GM still needs to ensure the coach is using the ingredients properly.

Sure by removing the ingredients or removing the coach, not telling him how to cook.
"Too many cooks......"

 

[Gary Nylund]

Eh, the GM still needs to ensure the coach is using the ingredients properly.

How's he supposed to do that? Who defines "properly"? Is it the GM's job to make the defence pairings, line combos, PP units and to tell the coach who gets how much ice time?

 

[Cor]

Sure by removing the ingredients or removing the coach, not telling him how to cook.
"Too many cooks......"

That’s jumping from 0 to 100 though.

It makes more sense to show the cook the receipe and how it should be cooked, than to fire the guy on the spot or throw the ingredients in the garbage

 

[zeke]

Those criteria are somewhat arbitrary IMO but OK.

arbitrary? not at all. they're pretty crucial elements in assessing teams' records imo.

the leafs are in a group of team's with a similar overall record clumped behind tampa, but when we look closer we see a number of those teams are being boosted by SO/OTL points, which are much more luck based. in addition, goal differential indicates even more so that the leafs haven't been as dependant on close-game luck as the others. and lastly, the only other team that beats the leafs in either category, Calgary, is playing in the worst division in hockey and the much weaker conference.

Goal differential is nice (and is something I keep an eye on myself) but if it doesn't translate into wins, what good is it?

it has translated into regulation wins. it doesn't say anything about shootouts though.

Most importantly though - if we're so good, why has Boston out-performed us by a substantial margin over the last 2 months?

because they've managed to squeeze out 7 more SO/OTL pts.

 

[ACC1224]

That’s jumping from 0 to 100 though.

It makes more sense to show the cook the receipe and how it should be cooked, than to fire the guy on the spot or throw the ingredients in the garbage

Any top chef, has his own recipes, he's not following someone else's.
If you need to explain a recipe to a chef, you've hired the wrong chef.

 

[Cor]

How's he supposed to do that? Who defines "properly"? Is it the GM's job to make the defence pairings, line combos, PP units and to tell the coach who gets how much ice time?

That’s for Dubas to figure out.

This isn’t a new thing. Earlier in the season the Marlies tried out a 5 person powerplay. It didn’t work so well, and Dubas told Keefe to knock it off. Keefe wanted to keep going with it. It was one of the Marlies reporters on the SDP, which said it’s the worst argument Keefe and Dubas ever had.

GM’s do care how the players they bring in are used, believe it or not.

 

[Cor]

Any top chef, has his own recipes, he's not following someone else's.
If you need to explain a recipe to a chef, you've hired the wrong chef.

I think every professional, in any line of work, can get ahead of themselves and sometimes need to be sat down and shown the recipe again.

Every person makes missteps. If Dubas sees Babcock making a misstep, he needs to step up, and have that discussion.

 

[zeke]

Yes, building the Team not coaching a team.
Now if the GM has had previous coaching experience, that's a different matter.
GM provides the ingredients, the Coach creates the dish.

and if you provide him with the best ingredients and he keeps sending out meatloaf and mashed potatoes .....you make some suggestions.

 

[ACC1224]

I think every professional, in any line of work, can get ahead of themselves and sometimes need to be sat down and shown the recipe again.

Every person makes missteps. If Dubas sees Babcock making a misstep, he needs to step up, and have that discussion.

Obviously discussions can and will occur.
The assistants will be part of the lineup discussion as well.
End of the day, the Coach has to have the final say, right or wrong.

 

[ACC1224]

and if you provide him with the best ingredients and he keeps sending out meatloaf and mashed potatoes .....you make some suggestions.

As the 2nd best team in hockey, we can only imagine where the team would be if the coach could fill out the lineup properly.

 

[KuleminFan41]

I don't understand why the Jets gets so much love to win the cup or as a cup contender. Blows my mind.

Well, there's a couple reasons. They're likely going to win their division, their defence is quite a bit better than ours and they made the conference finals last season. If you compare the forward core, can you really say the Leafs are significantly better? There's some similarities there and they've had some guys have down seasons and or have been hurt like Ehlers and Laine. Byfuglien has been hurt this season too. Where would The Leafs be if Rielly had only played 37 games this season? The only position we can argue that the Leafs are objectively better at would be goalie. So I understand why the Jets wouldd be picked as favourites over the Leafs

 

[zeke]

As the 2nd best team in hockey, we can only imagine where the team would be if the coach could fill out the lineup properly.

Our GM agrees.

 

[Gary Nylund]

arbitrary? not at all. they're pretty crucial elements in assessing teams' records imo.

the leafs are in a group of team's with a similar overall record clumped behind tampa, but when we look closer we see a number of those teams are being boosted by SO/OTL points, which are much more luck based. in addition, goal differential indicates even more so that the leafs haven't been as dependant on close-game luck as the others. and lastly, the only other team that beats the leafs in either category, Calgary, is playing in the worst division in hockey and the much weaker conference.

it has translated into regulation wins. it doesn't say anything about shootouts though.

because they've managed to squeeze out 7 more SO/OTL pts.

There are hundreds of "elements" you could look at, it's arbitrary IMHO to say that these couple you picked are somehow more crucial than the others. For example:

Are you sure that winning close games is really just luck?

OT wins are to me not only not crucial but irrelevant considering 3on3 hockey is a regular season gimmick and doesn't exist in the playoffs.

As for the West being "much" weaker, I'm curious as to what you're basing this on.

That’s for Dubas to figure out.

This isn’t a new thing. Earlier in the season the Marlies tried out a 5 person powerplay. It didn’t work so well, and Dubas told Keefe to knock it off. Keefe wanted to keep going with it. It was one of the Marlies reporters on the SDP, which said it’s the worst argument Keefe and Dubas ever had.

GM’s do care how the players they bring in are used, believe it or not.

Of course GM's care, who said they didn't?

Go read my post again an tell me:

Who has the final work on defence pairings, the GM or the coach?
Who decides on line combos and PP units, the GM or the coach?
Who decides who gets how much ice time, the GM or the coach?

The GM can offer input of course but I'm pretty sure the coach has the final say here.

 

[SprDaVE]

Well, there's a couple reasons. They're likely going to win their division, their defence is quite a bit better than ours and they made the conference finals last season. If you compare the forward core, can you really say the Leafs are significantly better? There's some similarities there and they've had some guys have down seasons and or have been hurt like Ehlers and Laine. Byfuglien has been hurt this season too. Where would The Leafs be if Rielly had only played 37 games this season? The only position we can argue that the Leafs are objectively better at would be goalie. So I understand why the Jets wouldd be picked as favourites over the Leafs

All that is fair to a certain degree but this year vs last year is not exactly what's the talking point here. The Leafs are significantly stronger on paper versus last season. Vegas went to the Finals last year and barely anybody picks them to be cup contenders.

The Leafs lost plenty of players to injuries this season too. Sure losing Rielly would have hurt but we've lost Matthews for a good month or so, we didn't have Nylander for awhile (or completely snake bitten), we've had Kadri, Hyman and Johnsson injured for stretches. Not sure it matters much that they've lost Byfuglien for awhile with their superior defensive depth.

The Leafs are also in the same division as the best team in the league and probably another top 5 team according to most. It's the hardest division this season.

 

[ACC1224]

Our GM agrees.

Agrees with me?

 

[zeke]

, their defence is quite a bit better than ours

no it's not.

rielly/muzzin/Gardiner and buff/morrissey/trouba are comparable up top, but I'll take dermott/hainsey/Zaitsev over myers/chiarot/kulikov any day.

If you compare the forward core, can you really say the Leafs are significantly better?

similar depth, but the Leafs are significantly better at the top - matthews/tavares/Marner is hands down better than scheifele/wheeler/Laine.

 

[Gary Nylund]

and if you provide him with the best ingredients and he keeps sending out meatloaf and mashed potatoes .....you make some suggestions.

And the coach is likely to say you do your job and I'll do mine. This is especially likely to be the case when you have a coach with Babcock's resume and the GM is a rookie like Dubas.

 

[zeke]

Agrees with me?

tor-trades-par-lindholm-to-wpg

 

[zeke]

And the coach is likely to say you do your job and I'll do mine. This is especially likely to be the case when you have a coach with Babcock's resume and the GM is a rookie like Dubas.

no doubt.

in which case the gm is forced to trade guys away.

not a good way to run the team long-term though.