Confirmed with Link: [TOR/PIT] RW Kapanen, D Lindgren, LW Aberg for '20 1st(15th), LW Rodrigues, C Hallander, D Warsofsky

[3headeddragon]

I've never claimed it was a bad trade nor criticized him for making it.

In fact this helps offset the really bad trade he made by dumping Marleau and so recovering the 1st helps soften that.

However I think this is the precursor to more trades to come and I'm not hopeful that draft pick survives if the right trade comes along to strengthen the current team.

Dubas needs results now and dealing away Kapanen for futures and weakening the current team does not improve the team on the ice for next year.

You claimed it as a move of desperation.

A move of desperation is always a bad move, odds are you over pay when you are desperate.

 

[Trapper]

There are a lot on here like that. To many on here that make a statement and can't realize each move must be evaluated individually.

It's self damaging to hate blindly.

Ultimately though, Dubas will be judged on the success of the team.
Even though I like the return he generated for Kapanen (good move), if Dubas is fired down the road, nobody will say but he got the 15th for Kapanen.

Jersey got Hall for Larson and everyone has been fired from the Devils in the end.

 

[BertCorbeau]

You claimed it as a move of desperation.

A move of desperation is always a bad move, odds are you over pay when you are desperate.

If anything Rutherford made a desperate move... Both GM's are pressured to win right now.

I can tell you if the Leafs gave up a mid 1st round pick and a solid B prospect for a tweener winger, we probably wouldn't be that happy.

 

[3headeddragon]

Ultimately though, Dubas will be judged on the success of the team.
Even though I like the return he generated for Kapanen (good move), if Dubas is fired down the road, nobody will say but he got the 15th for Kapanen.

Jersey got Hall for Larson and everyone has been fired from the Devils in the end.

All pro sport execs/coaches are fired eventually.

Yes he will be judged by his body of work. I agreed that Kadri needed to be traded and absolutely hated it was for Barrie.

I'm not going to send him to slaughter for me disagreeing with him. I need a larger body of work. No GM make all the right decisions.

This was a good trade as most and yourself agree.

 

[3headeddragon]

If anything Rutherford made a desperate move... Both GM's are pressured to win right now.

I can tell you if the Leafs gave up a mid 1st round pick and a solid B prospect for a tweener winger, we probably wouldn't be that happy.

Agreed, that's what I was responding to Mess.

 

[egd27]

You still don't shoot 50 cal at 22 target. He had time before the start of the season to maneuver, he panicked. Dubas just got a deal beyond his wildest dreams.

You can't twist this to reflect badly on him. It's a great deal.

Jury is still out on it's "greatness"......it looks ok on the surface, but "great" assumes the 15th OA is going to be a great choice, Hallander pans out into something, and KD uses the gained cap space effectively.

Now all of those could happen, but just as easily, none of those things could happen.

 

[3headeddragon]

Jury is still out on it's "greatness"......it looks ok on the surface, but "great" assumes the 15th OA is going to be a great choice, Hallander pans out into something, and KD uses the gained cap space effectively.

Now all of those could happen, but just as easily, none of those things could happen.

You're arguing symantecs on whether its great.

We have other players able to do the job cheaper while we needed to clear cap space. Opportunity was afforded the player to move up the depth chart and he was unable to take advantage of.

He was an asset limited in value on teams able to aquire, the 15th overall pick increases the pool for possible trade options.

Kapanen was a luxury that the Leafs could not afford. So unless you can show a deal that was on the table with higher value, this was a great deal for the Leafs

 

[egd27]

You're arguing symantecs on whether its great.

We have other players able to do the job cheaper while we needed to clear cap space. Opportunity was afforded the player to move up the depth chart and he was unable to take advantage of.

He was an asset limited in value on teams able to aquire, the 15th overall pick increases the pool for possible trade options.

Kapanen was a luxury that the Leafs could not afford. So unless you can show a deal that was on the table with higher value, this was a great deal for the Leafs

Sure, if the pick pans out, Hallander pans out, and Dubas doesn't use the cap space on something stupid like resigning Ceci and/or Barrie.

If the pick turns out to be Tyler Biggs, Hallander turns out to be (insert any number of failed prospects), and Dubas really didn't understand the "referendum" on Ceci because his underlying "numbers" were strong and brings him back at 2.5........well, then it's not so great.

 

[3headeddragon]

Sure, if the pick pans out, Hallander pans out, and Dubas doesn't use the cap space on something stupid like resigning Ceci and/or Barrie.

If the pick turns out to be Tyler Biggs, Hallander turns out to be (insert any number of failed prospects), and Dubas really didn't understand the "referendum" on Ceci because his underlying "numbers" were strong and brings him back at 2.5........well, then it's not so great.

This deal is not reflective to what is done after. Quit trying to deflect from the deal itself. The deal in itself is great everything after are their own transaction. This transaction is great
Maybe the next one isn't but this in itself is great.

 

[ToneDog]

If you knew you could sign Petro for $9M would you trade Marner and his $10.893 cap hit for #2OA, #3OA, #4OA or #5OA? Somebody proposed it on the main board and it is food for thought.

So Marner for Petro + top 2-5 pick + 1.893M to sign Demelo.

 

[stickty111]

I've never claimed it was a bad trade nor criticized him for making it.

In fact this helps offset the really bad trade he made by dumping Marleau and so recovering the 1st helps soften that.

However I think this is the precursor to more trades to come and I'm not hopeful that draft pick survives if the right trade comes along to strengthen the current team.

Dubas needs results now and dealing away Kapanen for futures and weakening the current team does not improve the team on the ice for next year.

Don't hide now. You claimed Dubas was desperate to make this move. Something tells me you don't know the difference between proactive and desperation. You also changed up the wording to what Dubas actually said to suit your argument. Dishonesty is not a good thing buddy.

Rutherford publically attacked his team, and then fired the assistant coaching staff. Seems like the desperation came from him, and Dubas took advantage of Rutherford's desperation, and as a result got a bigger package then thought. A proper GM like Dubas surveys everything, and a bad GM like Rutherford makes panic trades.

 

[egd27]

This deal is not reflective to what is done after. Quit trying to deflect from the deal itself. The deal in itself is great everything after are their own transaction. This transaction is great
Maybe the next one isn't but this in itself is great.

Oh, I see where you're saying now. A deal should be judged at the time it occurs rather than how the actual results of the deal impact the organization going forward.

Well, I'd be a fool to continue to argue with you based on that criteria.

 

[ToneDog]

Don't hide now. You claimed Dubas was desperate to make this move. Something tells me you don't know the difference between proactive and desperation. You also changed up the wording to what Dubas actually said to suit your argument. Dishonesty is not a good thing buddy.

Rutherford publically attacked his team, and then fired the assistant coaching staff. Seems like the desperation came from him, and Dubas took advantage of Rutherford's desperation, and as a result got a bigger package then thought. A proper GM like Dubas surveys everything, and a bad GM like Rutherford makes panic trades.

You were doing good until you called Rutherford a 3 time SC winning GM bad. Sure he might have overpaid to get Kappy but to call him a "bad GM" is not right. Shall we call Dubas a bad GM for the Kadri trade ??

 

[3headeddragon]

Oh, I see where you're saying now. A deal should be judged at the time it occurs rather than how the actual results of the deal impact the organization going forward.

Well, I'd be a fool to continue to argue with you based on that criteria.

When you don't know the accumulation of moves you can't argue in anything but "ifs".

But if you want to argue the accumulation of moves I'll meet you you in ten years to find out how it all turns out.

No deal in itself by your argument can be argued on face value of the move but must be evaluated on all moves reflective of the players involved. This could really take a long time

 

[baton elevated]

Sure, if the pick pans out, Hallander pans out, and Dubas doesn't use the cap space on something stupid like resigning Ceci and/or Barrie.

If the pick turns out to be Tyler Biggs, Hallander turns out to be (insert any number of failed prospects), and Dubas really didn't understand the "referendum" on Ceci because his underlying "numbers" were strong and brings him back at 2.5........well, then it's not so great.

Could turn into a Chabot or Aho or Barzal too. Scouts have be better here.

 

[Gabriel426]

You were doing good until you called Rutherford a 3 time SC winning GM bad. Sure he might have overpaid to get Kappy but to call him a "bad GM" is not right. Shall we call Dubas a bad GM for the Kadri trade ??

Can someone be a bad GM if they won 3 Cups, 2 of which being within the last 5 yrs.

 

[ToneDog]

Can someone be a bad GM if they won 3 Cups, 2 of which being within the last 5 yrs.

I would not think so but I could be wrong.

 

[Gabriel426]

I would not think so but I could be wrong.

Me too. As far as I know, if you win multiple Cups in Hockey, you might not be a Great GM but definitely a pretty good one.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

One of the insiders Friedman or someone like that was reporting Dubas was offering Kapanen around the league for a 1st and a prospect and it seems Pitts was the team willing to meet his asking price. It was also mentioned that Dubas has been actively shopping/listening to offers on AJ and Kerfoot etc as he is looking to reshape the roster.

So it seems Dubas is being extremely proactive burning up the phone lines and considering the timing of now during the playoffs with some teams not even in trading mode but rather Cup winning mode, there certainly seems to be some urgency in getting things done. The one making the calls as opposed to sitting back and waiting for the phone to ring is the GM showing more desire to make changes.

Rutherford was probably sitting on the dock of the bay fishing and drinking beer relaxing when his phone was ringing.

I believe of the 3 forwards that Kappy had the most trade value and the best contract so ROI would be the highest.

Well you would be semi right for today and every day leading to the trades. Kerfoot has value. You know the value of a center and building down the middle. Johnsson has 20g/20a potential. I went out and shook the tree and no players fell out. They have favourable bonus money already paid in their contracts as a kicker to their quality also.

I don’t think i will agree on minimizing their value just yet.

 

[ACC1224]

You were doing good until you called Rutherford a 3 time SC winning GM bad. Sure he might have overpaid to get Kappy but to call him a "bad GM" is not right. Shall we call Dubas a bad GM for the Kadri trade ??

Yes that’s one of the reasons

 

[Gabriel426]

If you knew you could sign Petro for $9M would you trade Marner and his $10.893 cap hit for #2OA, #3OA, #4OA or #5OA? Somebody proposed it on the main board and it is food for thought.

So Marner for Petro + top 2-5 pick + 1.893M to sign Demelo.

I don’t see why you would say no. Essentially, you get one top pick, Pietra and DeMelo on D but lose a 90pts winger.
From production stand point, since AJ missed last year, he is the direct replacements at another top 6 winger. His production should be about 45pts playing with JT or AM. Pietra and DeMelo should get 35pts combined. The drop off in production is about 10pts but mainly are assists since I think Pietra, DeMelo and AJ should scored about 30goals combine which is more than Marner’s best season.
Ofcourse at the end of the day will be if the Leafs can win the Cup or not. If they can even win it once, it is a worth while trade even if the top pick is a bust and Marner wins Multiple Harts.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

I've never claimed it was a bad trade nor criticized him for making it.

In fact this helps offset the really bad trade he made by dumping Marleau and so recovering the 1st helps soften that.

However I think this is the precursor to more trades to come and I'm not hopeful that draft pick survives if the right trade comes along to strengthen the current team.

Dubas needs results now and dealing away Kapanen for futures and weakening the current team does not improve the team on the ice for next year.

The loss of Kappy actually does not weaken us. Traded from the position of strength took care of that. Barabanov,Mikheyev and Robertson and possibly Hallander as a 3rd line center fills the void no.

 

[Menzinger]

I've never claimed it was a bad trade nor criticized him for making it.

In fact this helps offset the really bad trade he made by dumping Marleau and so recovering the 1st helps soften that.

However I think this is the precursor to more trades to come and I'm not hopeful that draft pick survives if the right trade comes along to strengthen the current team.

Dubas needs results now and dealing away Kapanen for futures and weakening the current team does not improve the team on the ice for next year.

While I'd be happy if the Leafs kepe the pick and draft a good prospect, if it's flipped (maybe with another asset) for a top 4 D man who can be a a core player for the team, I see anything wrong with that.

 

[kb]

The loss of Kappy actually does not weaken us. Traded from the position of strength took care of that. Barabanov,Mikheyev and Robertson and possibly Hallander as a 3rd line center fills the void no.

How will the Leafs ever replace his low IQ and 13 goals? DISASTER DESPERATE TRADE!!!

 

[Wafflewhipper]

How will the Leafs ever replace his low IQ and 13 goals? DISASTER DESPERATE TRADE!!!

Who ever is G.M of my team i want to do good deals. This is a good deal for both teams. I think there is some sour because they just dont like him. I accepted the Kadri trade. I didn’t like it. Dubas is active thats good. I was hoping for early moves.