Confirmed with Link: [TOR/PIT] RW Kapanen, D Lindgren, LW Aberg for '20 1st(15th), LW Rodrigues, C Hallander, D Warsofsky

[robertmac43]

Reading an Athletic post with an interview from Dubas. There were a couple of takeaways:

1. They believed in Kap and still do. He cannot really anythign different here but he wanted to make it clear the org supported him
2. Dubas said they don't think they need to trade another forward
3. They may hold on to the cap space generated from the Kap trade and make a move later in the year similar to what happened when we got Muzzin

Again all of this can be taken with a huge grain of salt, just one of the first interviews that has come out since the trade.

 

[Go4soda]

What makes you think that?

I’m on the Askarov wagon. Our goaltending depth is pathetic and this kid has Vaselivsky (sp) potential so I don’t think BPA is a consideration here. Reminds me a lot of Shestyorkin as well.

What makes you think that?

I’m on the Askarov wagon. Our goaltending depth is pathetic and this kid has Vaselivsky (sp) potential so I don’t think BPA is a consideration here. Reminds me a lot of Shestyorkin as well.

wish we had taken Carter Hart instead of Korshkov in 2016. I was puzzled by that. thought it was a no brainer.

 

[Go4soda]

I think what happens alot is when certain D get labelled "defensive", some people just assume low skilled (Luke Schenn).

Sometimes that is the truth but other times its not accurate and the player can actually be a shutdown defensive D while also having a good skillset like a Brodin, Manson, Muzzin etc.

You can see from that video that Schneider is a excellent skater, has poise with the puck and is active offensively.

Not saying we should draft him but have noticed this trend of people hating on potential draft prospects because they have the shutdown defencemen tag.

We could definitely use alot of the characteristics he brings tho.

he looks like he has great instincts. great defensive acumen, also knows when to jump into the rush. i enjoyed his big hits too.

 

[Mess]

IMO comes down to working out a better deal (bridge??) with Marner so you could retain part of Marleau's cap hit in which case you did not have to give up the first to dump Marleau. No sense in beating up a dead horse but you asked

In the big picture it won't really matter because when the dust settles the final outcome will be the same.

This current Kapanen deal weakens the present but strengthens the future... However Dubas future as GM is dependent on the present. So we have a conundrum here presented before us to solve.

So while I appreciate Dubas' effort for not leaving the prospect cupboard bare for the next Leafs GM by this move, its also highly probable that this new 1st rounder obtained is also dealt away in an effort to strengthen this current squad as we're now in job preservation mode and need immediate results.

The panel discussed this yesterday during the games and its already been confirmed that Leafs 1st this year is in play if the right deal comes along that helps the Leafs improve. So the motivation will be high that the future once again will be invested in the present all things considered.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Reading an Athletic post with an interview from Dubas. There were a couple of takeaways:

1. They believed in Kap and still do. He cannot really anythign different here but he wanted to make it clear the org supported him
2. Dubas said they don't think they need to trade another forward
3. They may hold on to the cap space generated from the Kap trade and make a move later in the year similar to what happened when we got Muzzin

Again all of this can be taken with a huge grain of salt, just one of the first interviews that has come out since the trade.

If we plan to go deeper in 2021 playoffs (assuming there is even a season) then we need 3 defensive defenders (one for each pairing) and to account for injury which happens frequently to defenders. Right now we got Muzzy. We need 2 more guys who can play like him. Maybe Gudas and Dillon/Edmundson. Then we got a real shot at advancing assuming we get better tending.
Rielly Edmundson
Muzzy Dermy
Sandin Gudas
Holl
Now we got 7 guys going into playoffs who can play.
If we stay PAT with Holl in our top 4 then we should all expect exactly same issues next year. This issue must be fixed NOW. It has been a HUGE problem for team past 4 years. Until it is solved we are going nowhere come playoff time. To me that is all that matters is playoff hockey. I could care less about regular season hockey.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

In the picture it won't really matter because when the dust settles the final outcome will be the same.

This current Kapanen deal weakens the present but strengthens the future.

However Dubas future as GM is dependent on the present.

So while I appreciate Dubas effort for not leaving the prospect cupboard bare for the next Leafs GM by this move, its also highly probable that this new 1st rounder is also dealt away in an effort to strengthen this current squad as we're now in job preservation mode and need immediate results. The panel discussed this yesterday during the games and its already been confirmed that Leafs 1st this year is in play if the right deal comes along that helps the Leafs improve.

Mess I think they may use next years 2021 1st rounder in discussions. Everyone knows it is worst draft class ever. Many playoff teams will be unloading 2021 1st rounders though so it gets more difficult to trade them. You will see clubs offer them up to improve their teams.
2020 1st rounders are GOLD. 2nd/3rd rounder SILVER. This 2020 draft is very very very deep into round 3.

 

[Spargon]

no use in crying over spilt milk but imagine if we had #13 and #15 and took Askarov and Schnieder ?

If we had kept Marleau and our 1st, it would be higher than 13th because we would be a worse team and Kapanen would be gone and possible no other 1st coming back. Can't pretend the 2 things would go together

 

[GLobello]

no use in crying over spilt milk but imagine if we had #13 and #15 and took Askarov and Schnieder ?

Imagine our ball doesn't bounce out and we have the #1 and #15 picks.

 

[Mess]

Mess I think they may use next years 2021 1st rounder in discussions. Everyone knows it is worst draft class ever. Many playoff teams will be unloading 2021 1st rounders though so it gets more difficult to trade them. You will see clubs offer them up to improve their teams.
2020 1st rounders are GOLD. 2nd/3rd rounder SILVER. This 2020 draft is very very very deep into round 3.

No argument here that it could be next years 1st the preferred choice to go first, but I guess that depends on what deals are being discussed as NHL GM also realize the value attached to different draft classes.

For Leafs sake its certainly better to have 2019 (draft pick traded) --- 2020 (draft pick made) ---- 2021 (draft pick traded).

 

[willmma]

thought we traded Liljegren when i first saw this and was like wtf.

i like the trade a lot better when i read his name properly.

You and Rutherford

 

[Wafflewhipper]

The uncertainty around this guy continues.

If it was disciplinary, you’d imagine the team would be fine saying something about it. If it’s something private, I hope he’s getting through it and can make his way back.

He was projecting well up until early this season as an offensive contributor.

He’s a good player. Personal things are not my concern. He’s just a good player that had something go wrong that looks internal and should stay internal. I’m talking strictly as a hockey player. He missed leading the AHL in scoring. Was killing penalties well and progressing on his defensive game. Playing powerplay. Everything that indicated he was coming along. Then boom,he’s home. Whatever that was i hope they forget it is my thinking. He was becoming a decent prospect.
Even if it was a battle between him and the team it’s all forgettable because as long as they weren’t insulting each others Mothers all is good ha. I would like to see him around. Most don’t but i am not one of them. Actually I completely disagree with the posters that slag him with no understanding of what was going on. I don’t know what happened i know that. So as a hockey player he was coming along nice is my thinking. I hope they can keep him,he’s a good kid.

 

[kb]

no use in crying over spilt milk but imagine if we had #13 and #15 and took Askarov and Schnieder ?

Not quite sure why people the Leafs could ever have ended up with that. They would have had to trade both Johnsson and Kapanen last summer to keep Marleau, and their values would have been lower seeing that neither could sign a contract until Marleau was traded.

 

[ToneDog]

If we had kept Marleau and our 1st, it would be higher than 13th because we would be a worse team and Kapanen would be gone and possible no other 1st coming back. Can't pretend the 2 things would go together

Marleau was not playing here. He still goes to another team but for 1/2 his cap hit and a 2nd instead of 100% of his cap hit and the 1st. Nothing changes on the ice.

 

[Dangles McGavin]

Engvall? Really eh

Do I think Engvall can replace Kapanen's output at a very modestly (if at all) diminished rate? Yes.

Do I think that Engvall is our ideal third liner? No.

 

[ToneDog]

Imagine our ball doesn't bounce out and we have the #1 and #15 picks.

Book your spot on the parade route

 

[ToneDog]

Not quite sure why people the Leafs could ever have ended up with that. They would have had to trade both Johnsson and Kapanen last summer to keep Marleau, and their values would have been lower seeing that neither could sign a contract until Marleau was traded.

Not under my scenario where Marner takes 2.5-3M less on a bridge deal and Leafs retain that from Marleau's cap hit. You then deal Marleau and the rest of his cap hit and a 2nd or AJ if you like.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Except he can skate. Exactly what is needed.

Whether we get that kid or Sanderson's kid we need one of those 2 kids. We need a bigger kid who plays with a competitive defensive edge. We may have to trade up a bit using our very late round picks. Hoping we can use Kerfoot and later round picks to end up with a better 1st round pick, a couple 2nd rounders and keep our 3rd rounder. That gives us 4 guys for prospect pool. And go for 2 defenders, a centre and a goalie. We don't need anymore winger types.

 

[X66]

The only thing that sours me on Askarov is that he is a right hand glove goalie.

Historically they don't really thrive.

 

[Marshy]

IMO comes down to working out a better deal (bridge??) with Marner so you could retain part of Marleau's cap hit in which case you did not have to give up the first to dump Marleau. No sense in beating up a dead horse but you asked

I too wish a more hard line would have been taken with Marner. He would have stayed and if he didn't - well at least other agents would have said "why bother strong-arming this guy (Dubas)"?" --> which has its own obvious future benefits.

 

[Mr Knies Guy]

Whether we get that kid or Sanderson's kid we need one of those 2 kids. We need a bigger kid who plays with a competitive defensive edge. We may have to trade up a bit using our very late round picks. Hoping we can use Kerfoot and later round picks to end up with a better 1st round pick, a couple 2nd rounders and keep our 3rd rounder. That gives us 4 guys for prospect pool. And go for 2 defenders, a centre and a goalie. We don't need anymore winger types.

Let's be careful with the big kids with competitive edge desires, they don't always work out. For a 1st rounder, I look at IQ, compete and skill above all else, don't care if he's 6'4 or 5'11

 

[JT AM da real deal]

The only thing that sours me on Askarov is that he is a right hand glove goalie.

Historically they don't really thrive.

Does he have that extra mental edge?????????????????????? Some people question it????????????????? Big risk maybe big reward or big failure... There are goalies in league today who can help us over da playoff hump.

 

[Martin Skoula]

Marleau was not playing here. He still goes to another team but for 1/2 his cap hit and a 2nd instead of 100% of his cap hit and the 1st. Nothing changes on the ice.

He has an NMC and needs to be bought out because he decided to change his mind to SJS only last second. The buy out deadline is before his bonuses are paid, so regardless of retention the team trading for him would need to pay his bonus and carry his buyout cap hit as dead money.

The actual solution was having Marleau not be a child and accept a trade somewhere close to SJS with no buyout demands, that would have cost much less with no residual cap hit on our side.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Let's be careful with the big kids with competitive edge desires, they don't always work out. For a 1st rounder, I look at IQ, compete and skill above all else, don't care if he's 6'4 or 5'11

We need an anchor Pronger/Chara type ...it is what we are missing MOST ... they don't last in draft EVER because they are what makes you WIN

 

[Matthews34]

Except he can skate. Exactly what is needed.

It's what the Leafs need today. What if in 3 years which is probably best case scenario for an NHL debut for most middle of the 1st rd drafted dmen and Dermott, Rielly, Anderson, Johnsson and Kerfoot are all gone? Will the Leafs need still be a defence first dman when the team is in a franchise retool? Odds are he won't truly make a difference until is 4th or 5th season which projects to be 7-8 years way when the no current roster player is still on the books. See why you don't draft for today's need? You draft BPA.

 

[kb]

Not under my scenario where Marner takes 2.5-3M less on a bridge deal and Leafs retain that from Marleau's cap hit. You then deal Marleau and the rest of his cap hit and a 2nd or AJ if you like.

I do see your point, but trading Kapanen last summer still doesn't get you #15 and Hallander....for an unsigned RFA, you are looking at probably a second and 3rd/4th at best.

In retrospect, a Marner bridge deal in all likelihood would have killed the contention window. The flat cap means no money to resign Marner when he needs a new contract as he would come up at the same time as Rielly, Sandin, and Campbell.....and a 4 year deal would have walked him straight to UFA.

In the end, the Leafs got to keep Kapanen for an extra season, and then sold high on him. Not a bad consolation prize.

If you combine those 2 deals, this is the outcome.

Out: Marleau, Kapanen, 1st, Lindgren, Aberg

In: Hallander, 1st, 6th, Rodrigues, Warsofsky, $7.5 million cap space.

Seems to be a decent trade off all things considered.

 

[kb]

It's what the Leafs need today. What if in 3 years which is probably best case scenario for an NHL debut for most middle of the 1st rd drafted dmen and Dermott, Rielly, Anderson, Johnsson and Kerfoot are all gone? Will the Leafs need still be a defence first dman when the team is in a franchise retool? Odds are he won't truly make a difference until is 4th or 5th season which projects to be 7-8 years way when the no current roster player is still on the books. See why you don't draft for today's need? You draft BPA.

How long did it take Carlo to play? Same player but better wheels and tools.