Proposal: TOR-PHI 6 Player Deal Giroux and Nylander the main pieces

[Starat327]

Looks like Kadri has the tougher matchups but yet generates more offence or am I wrong?

Not sure. Is that what your hero charts are telling you? If so, it has to be true.

 

[Stuzchuk]

as my brother would say...
"dans l'cul pas d'bave sti"!

 

[Mr Hockey*]

Not sure. Is that what your hero charts are telling you? If so, it has to be true.

CRQoC - 1.329, Relative Corsi - 6.3 -- 39 pt
CRQoC - 1.405, Relative Corsi - 6.9 -- 45 pts

 

[Stephen]

Wait, why do we want Claude Giroux again? Two consecutive declining years in production, prime aged, massive contract, and a big age gap between him and the new core. I'm not seeing any purpose to adding a player who will be 31 when Matthews and Marner are just exiting their ELCs.

 

[lifelonghockeyfan]

Mason and Delzotto are UFAs after next summer. So their value for a rebuilding team is meaningless.

Kadri and Nylander for Giroux. Good deal for Leafs. But as suggested by others, for a rebuilding team, I'd keep Nylander.

Hey both teams turn down the proposal.

 

[Grazzy]

Mason and Delzotto are UFAs after next summer. So their value for a rebuilding team is meaningless.

Kadri and Nylander for Giroux. Good deal for Leafs. But as suggested by others, for a rebuilding team, I'd keep Nylander.

Hey both teams turn down the proposal.

No they don't. Best case scenario for Nylander is he turns into Giroux, but that's a best case scenario. No GM in the history of the NHL would make that trade on the Flyers behalf. It's not about need, it's about value and it's not close.

 

[leaflover]

Mason and Delzotto are UFAs after next summer. So their value for a rebuilding team is meaningless.

Kadri and Nylander for Giroux. Good deal for Leafs. But as suggested by others, for a rebuilding team, I'd keep Nylander.

Hey both teams turn down the proposal.

Indeed, and both teams would be making the right decision once their current state is taken into consideration.
It's really quite simple.

 

[Mr Hockey*]

No they don't. Best case scenario for Nylander is he turns into Giroux, but that's a best case scenario. No GM in the history of the NHL would make that trade on the Flyers behalf. It's not about need, it's about value and it's not close.

28 yrs - Giroux - two way #1 c, 60 -70 pts

25 yrs - kadri - two way #2 c, 50 -60 pts
20 yrs - Nylander - 50 - 60 pts

 

[Jason MacIsaac]

28 yrs - Giroux - two way #1 c, 60 -70 pts

25 yrs - kadri - two way #2 c, 50 -60 pts
20 yrs - Nylander - 50 - 60 pts

It's settled! Two 50-60 point NHL players are better than one 60-70 point player. Dynamics of building a hockey team don't work that way. Nylander and Kadri will not be putting up 50-60 points on the same team. Especially a team with Auston Mathews as a center unless both are on his wing.

 

[TheLeastOfTheBunch]

Wait, why do we want Claude Giroux again? Two consecutive declining years in production, prime aged, massive contract, and a big age gap between him and the new core. I'm not seeing any purpose to adding a player who will be 31 when Matthews and Marner are just exiting their ELCs.

Pretty much. Love the way Giroux plays the game, but he's turning 29 this season, and the Leafs aren't in a position where they're one or two piece away from being contenders. By the time that window opens up for Toronto, Giroux will be on the decline.

 

[aufheben]

Looks like Kadri has the tougher matchups but yet generates more offence or am I wrong?

I don't know where you saw that. Couturier is a special player.

 

[Starat327]

I don't know where you saw that. Couturier is a special player.

Hero charts, bro.

 

[aufheben]

Hero charts, bro.

I've always envied the Flyers for having him, I can't believe he's still only like 23.

Players like he and Bergeron who can produce as top-6 players and not only handle but excel in absurd usage are rare.

 

[nbwingsfan]

28 yrs - Giroux - two way #1 c, 60 -70 pts

25 yrs - kadri - two way #2 c, 50 -60 pts
20 yrs - Nylander - 50 - 60 pts

I like how Giroux has never had a season lower than 67 points since 09/10 and Kadri has never had a season above 50 points EVER yet you call Kadri a potential 60 point player as well as Giroux

Going by their averages over the last 3 seasons:

Giroux- 77pts

Kadri- 48pts
Nylander- Unknown

Now do you realize how ridiculous you sound? It's not a 10 point difference like you try and make it sound... its closer to 30.

 

[Starat327]

I've always envied the Flyers for having him, I can't believe he's still only like 23.

His usage is insane. I'm excited to see what he can do if we can get him out of our own zone a little more. His zone start is crazy and really inhibits his game I think. We just don't have anyone else to do the heavy lifting.

 

[aufheben]

His usage is insane. I'm excited to see what he can do if we can get him out of our own zone a little more. His zone start is crazy and really inhibits his game I think. We just don't have anyone else to do the heavy lifting.

Just trade Giroux for Kadri and put Kadri in Couturier's spot.

I like Kadri too but they're not similar players.

 

[Tripod]

CRQoC - 1.329, Relative Corsi - 6.3 -- 39 pt
CRQoC - 1.405, Relative Corsi - 6.9 -- 45 pts

Lol...you do realize that Couturier missed 19 games too, right?

Couts had a better PPG than Kadri this year.

http://www.quanthockey.com/nhl/seasons/2015-16-nhl-players-stats.html

The fact that certain people need to go look at the flawed Hero charts to compare players just show that you don't watch the guys enough to comment....yet you do.

 

[Starat327]

Just trade Giroux for Kadri and put Kadri in Couturier's spot.

I like Kadri too but they're not similar players.

I said heavy lifting. Not lighter lifting.

Wait, never mind. Apparently Kadri is the superior defensive player.

 

[aufheben]

Lol...you do realize that Couturier missed 19 games too, right?

Couts had a better PPG than Kadri this year.

http://www.quanthockey.com/nhl/seasons/2015-16-nhl-players-stats.html

The fact that certain people need to go look at the flawed Hero charts to compare players just show that you don't watch the guys enough to comment....yet you do.

Where is that CF%Rel from as well? Kadri was 1.9% and Coutier was 3.5%....which is pretty great considering he gets totally boned w/r/t usage.

 

[Magua]

Where is that CF%Rel from as well? Kadri was 1.9% and Coutier was 3.5%....which is pretty great considering he gets totally boned w/r/t usage.

Like I posted on the last page, last year Couturier had a score/zone adjusted Relative CF% of +5.1% to Kadri's +1.33%. Relative scoring chances for +17.89% to Kadri's +0.89%. Couturier has a relative zone start ratio of -9.10 to Kadri's +1.39

 

[Magua]

His usage is insane. I'm excited to see what he can do if we can get him out of our own zone a little more. His zone start is crazy and really inhibits his game I think. We just don't have anyone else to do the heavy lifting.

Like the guy said, he's special like a Bergeron. He doesn't need easier usage because the difficulty doesn't inhibit him. The only real difference between this past year and previous years were that he was given actual top 6 linemates and not injured or just ****** linemates. Quality of teammate is more important than competition or zone starts.

 

[Mr Hockey*]

I would not doubt that Couturier is the #1 c in few years and you guys are paying 8 mil on a declining #2 c. Matthews is #1 c, no need for 8 mil #2 in Toronto.

 

[Starat327]

Like the guy said, he's special like a Bergeron. He doesn't need easier usage because the difficulty doesn't inhibit him. The only real difference between this past year and previous years were that he was given actual top 6 linemates and not injured or just ****** linemates. Quality of teammate is more important than competition or zone starts.

Agreed. But I find it difficult to believe he wouldn't produce a little better if given slightly easier assignments. Constantly fighting to get out of your zone wears on you.

And yeah, better line mates would certainly help.

 

[KrisLetAngry]

I would not doubt that Couturier is the #1 c in few years and you guys are paying 8 mil on a declining #2 c. Matthews is #1 c, no need for 8 mil #2 in Toronto.

Lol Giroux is better then Towes.

Tell me I am biased plz say I am aND then look at my avatar.

Giroux is almost as good as Crosby at playmaking.
As well as a better two way player then Crosby by a bit.

I'd take Crosby Malkin Backstrom and Seguin and that is it over Giroux. Oh and Mcdavid

Giroux is not gonna become a 2c and in 2 years.

 

[billybudd]

TOR decides that their winning window is sooner. PHI sees their winning window as later.

This entire premise is flawed. Philadelphia is getting close to turning the corner. Toronto is still a ways off. This is the situation up and down the lineup for both teams.

Toronto can decide they're on the verge of arriving all they want--it won't be true until it's true and upgrading on Nazeem Kadri isn't enough to make it true.

As far as Philly, I have no concept of why they'd want to push the rebuild later by about two years. Or more.