Confirmed with Link: [TOR/OTT] Matt Murray (25% retention), a 3rd in 2023 and a 7th in 2024 for Future Considerations.

[Gary Nylund]

Funny. I see the opposite a lot. Any time someone posts something that doesn't lap up Dubas, they're told to go follow the Kraken. Or you're not even a Leafs fan.

I see it happens to Mess nearly every day. The idea he's not a Leafs fan is laughable, but Pro-Dubas guys do Pro-Dubas.

I've seen Mess called out a number of times for his ahem, "interesting" takes, haven't seen anyone tell him to follow the Kraken but I'll take your word for it.

Re. the bolded, yeah I really don't think so. From what I've seen, the Dubas haters outnumber the fanboys by a massive margin. Though there are two fanboys that post a ton as if it was their fulltime job, maybe that's skewing the perception a tad.

Interesting takes on both sides. One thing for sure is that Dubas is a divisive figure.

Indeed. I'd be shocked if there was anyone that would debate this point!

 

[Nineteen67]

...and then after he came back from waivers due to the other two goalies being out , they threw him to the wolves against Toronto (outshot 40-20 in the game and they lost 6-0) and we all thought he was done and what does he do? he went .941 his next 11 starts, mostly against top-end offenses (Edmx2, Carolina, Bos, Pit, Wsh, etc.) I want to see what he will do on a good team.

Looking at all the top teams this season, The Leafs are in the best shape IMO. They've lost no really key parts while overhauling the worst parts of their team (3rd/4th lines, goaltending). I mean, big gamble? That Florida deal looks like the biggest gamble we've seen in forever....and it looks plain awful on the surface. Gutted the Presidents trophy winning team while completely gutting their future as well the last year.......and yet you have people thinking that was some sort of genius deal for the Cats while criticizing this one. Even that one could still well work out and they are reasonably close to when they were last season but the Panthers are still down all their firsts and prospects. Need to hit on some ELC's and picks, especially in the covid cap era.

Murray and Samsanov are both gambles, regardless of what other teams do.

 

[kb]

Murray and Samsanov are both gambles, regardless of what other teams do.

Half a season with goaltending under .900 and ending up with 115 points suggests it's not.

 

[Stephen]

Half a season with goaltending under .900 and ending up with 115 points suggests it's not.

People have a short memory, but when the Leafs got out of the gate slowly the first two weeks of the season, it was Campbell's Vezina caliber play that helped stabilize the ship and give them a foundation to find their stride.

We have also proven capable of overcoming mediocre goaltending for long stretches, but we absolutely do need Murray and Samsonov to be strong for us as much as they can. And we'll absolutely need them to be quality in the playoffs. We can't refer to the Colorado method. As strong as the Leafs are, we would need Rielly to be a near Matthews level defenseman in order to dominate like Colorado and outscore all their goaltending issues.

 

[Racer88]

I've seen Mess called out a number of times for his ahem, "interesting" takes, haven't seen anyone tell him to follow the Kraken but I'll take your word for it.

Re. the bolded, yeah I really don't think so. From what I've seen, the Dubas haters outnumber the fanboys by a massive margin. Though there are two fanboys that post a ton as if it was their fulltime job, maybe that's skewing the perception a tad.


Indeed. I'd be shocked if there was anyone that would debate this point!

Oh I’m betting we could get a debate going about how divisive he is and is it just bad luck or the Refs fault……..lol

 

[Nineteen67]

Half a season with goaltending under .900 and ending up with 115 points suggests it's not.

They we’re not on the Leafs last season.

 

[A1LeafNation]

There are only 2 goalies under 30 who have over 20 wins in the last 6 years. One is Vasilevskiy.

 

[deprw]

It’s amazing (but not surprising in the least) that the Mrazek and Murray moves that have universally been looked at as failures can be so rigorously defended by the folks at Dubas HQ.
Defense never rests, it must be exhausting.

I think it should be other way around. I don't understand why Dubas haters aren't ecstatic, because of Murray. If he fails and Samsonov can't save it -> Dubas probably walks and you ditch Murray: clean plate.

If Dubas signs Kuemper or Campbell and either of them fails -> immovable contract left and Dubas walks. Almost same with Husso who you paid assets for.

Campbell is killing blow for any cup hopes if he fails, it is contract that costs a ton to move. They should pray for him in Edmonton.

Also if Hellebyuck is available next summer we can make a move, if we sign Campbell we can't.

Also Dubas haters: this team can't make it, fire Dubas and Shanahan. If you don't believe that we can't make it anyway. Why care about this at all? Murray can't make it any worse, can he? Plate is cleaner once this team fails and Dubas is gone...

ps. I don't see you as Dubas hater and I don't see myself operating from Dubas HQ.

 

[ACC1224]

I think it should be other way around. I don't understand why Dubas haters aren't ecstatic, because of Murray. If he fails and Samsonov can't save it -> Dubas probably walks and you ditch Murray: clean plate.

If Dubas signs Kuemper or Campbell and either of them fails -> immovable contract left and Dubas walks. Almost same with Husso who you paid assets for.

Campbell is killing blow for any cup hopes if he fails, it is contract that costs a ton to move. They should pray for him in Edmonton.

Also if Hellebyuck is available next summer we can make a move, if we sign Campbell we can't.

Also Dubas haters: this team can't make it, fire Dubas and Shanahan. If you don't believe that we can't make it anyway. Why care about this at all? Murray can't make it any worse, can he? Plate is cleaner once this team fails and Dubas is gone...

ps. I don't see you as Dubas hater and I don't see myself operating from Dubas HQ.

I just want the team to have success, part of that is making good moves. I would love nothing more than the team to be so successful that Dubas gets a lifetime extension. IMO, he dropped the ball on both of these which seems to be the consensus.

 

[deprw]

I just want the team to have success, part of that is making good moves. I would love nothing more than the team to be so successful that Dubas gets a lifetime extension. IMO, he dropped the ball on both of these which seems to be the consensus.

I would have liked Husso here, but I didn't anticipate that someone would trade for him. I'm also biased since I'm from Finland and probably think more highly about him than I should.

I didn't see any goaltenders on the market that I really liked. I'm happy that we didn't sign Campbell for that contract, but would have been happy to jump on him 1.5 years before with reasonable contract.

This market was like last years full of lottery tickets. Andersen was one that won last year until playoffs time came. Many teams made mistakes with that crop, Leafs included.

I just hope they really believe in Murray and know what they're doing. If he was the one we wanted, then he was and I don't care about price at the moment. If he fails, it lands on Dubas. If they want him and don't get him, that is worse mistake, than not getting full value with him.

We will see in 40 games what's going on with 2022 goalie crop. With our history with goalies I see lots of reasons to be sour, but I think that is true no matter who you chose from the market.

 

[Punch Drunk Loov]

Having a hard time being positive on this. Still feel like this was a bad bet at 4.7Mx2. We should have played hardball that it needed to be 50% retention or no deal and Ottawa could keep their picks. We have Matthews for 2 more years and Murray is occupying a lot of hyper valuable cap space. If Murray has a bad year I suppose we can unload him but it's going to cost more than Mrazek given the extra mill

 

[saltming]

I would have liked Husso here, but I didn't anticipate that someone would trade for him. I'm also biased since I'm from Finland and probably think more highly about him than I should.

I didn't see any goaltenders on the market that I really liked. I'm happy that we didn't sign Campbell for that contract, but would have been happy to jump on him 1.5 years before with reasonable contract.

This market was like last years full of lottery tickets. Andersen was one that won last year until playoffs time came. Many teams made mistakes with that crop, Leafs included.

I just hope they really believe in Murray and know what they're doing. If he was the one we wanted, then he was and I don't care about price at the moment. If he fails, it lands on Dubas. If they want him and don't get him, that is worse mistake, than not getting full value with him.

We will see in 40 games what's going on with 2022 goalie crop. With our history with goalies I see lots of reasons to be sour, but I think that is true no matter who you chose from the market.

The only logical reason to have hope or at least suspend dissension is that it is a new goalie department.
Thus this is technically not song the same thing and expecting different results

 

[acrobaticgoalie]

Having a hard time being positive on this. Still feel like this was a bad bet at 4.7Mx2. We should have played hardball that it needed to be 50% retention or no deal and Ottawa could keep their picks. We have Matthews for 2 more years and Murray is occupying a lot of hyper valuable cap space. If Murray has a bad year I suppose we can unload him but it's going to cost more than Mrazek given the extra mill

The word is that 50% was never going to be on the table given the Sens internal cap budget being a small market team. Even the other rumored trades with Buffalo and I forget who the other team was, was for 25%. There was the other option of getting a 3rd team involved to retain but I think Dubas had said the cost was too much.

 

[deprw]

The only logical reason to have hope or at least suspend dissension is that it is a new goalie department.
Thus this is technically not song the same thing and expecting different results

My hope is based on that we could kept our team, when other contenders outside Carolina couldn't. Goalies aren't voodoo, but it would be false statement of saying that choosing goalie this summer wasn't partly voodoo. Every team acquiring goalie from that market is spinning the wheel and since we have good foundation, it should support that decision we make.

I'm hopeful because of that new goalie department, but time will tell. Has to say that I'm generally underwhelmed how Dubas has approached goalies and that department.

Last summer I was pessimistic, before that optimistic and now I'm somewhere in between.

 

[Punch Drunk Loov]

The word is that 50% was never going to be on the table given the Sens internal cap budget being a small market team. Even the other rumored trades with Buffalo and I forget who the other team was, was for 25%. There was the other option of getting a 3rd team involved to retain but I think Dubas had said the cost was too much.

Dorion apparently had another team interested in Murray which made Dubas want to pull the trigger as well. We'll never know if that was a bluff or not. Sens were prepared to buy him out, and it may be wishful thinking, but I would've left them to figure that out on their own if 50% wasn't on the table.

 

[ACC1224]

Dorion apparently had another team interested in Murray which made Dubas want to pull the trigger as well. We'll never know if that was a bluff or not. Sens were prepared to buy him out, and it may be wishful thinking, but I would've left them to figure that out on their own if 50% wasn't on the table.

...or pushed for more than a couple middling picks.

 

[kk87]

Is our goaltending situation going into this season optimal? No - but people are looking at this in a vacuum. There weren't any goalies on the market who didn't have question marks around them. The best goalie available (who just won a cup) is over 30 already and had to retrain his eye three times a day for the entire playoff run... and as much as I love Campbell, he comes with his own risks at five years.

The fact that we have a goaltending duo with this much upside, and we actually gained assets to assemble it, has to be seen as a worthwhile bet. There's a high level of risk with both these guys, but they've both proven they can be competent NHL goalies and they're both young enough to get better. All in all, I feel as good about this duo as any we could've realistically ended up with.

 

[Extra Texture]

Man oh man, two weeks later i still cant believe this move happened. I love Murray and will be forever grateful for his contributions as a Penguin. He was exactly the right guy that team needed in spring 2016: excited for his chance, nonchalant about any setbacks, a cool head unburdened by past years of failure.

All in all, he is a good dude who overcame adversity in Pittsburgh and did alot as a young man to help support his local community and keep his mind focused on the game when other things were getting to him. I was sad about the injuries and the setbacks, but in spring of 2018, I genuinely thought this guy was going to anchor the Pens in net for the next 10 years.

For his sake, I hope he hits the ground running in Toronto. The amount of ink spilled in anger from the Toronto media if he continues to struggle will drown him, the front office, and half the team. But if he follows a similar arc to what happened in 2016, he might be exactly the tonic in net that the team is looking for. Especially a team that is "pressing" and feeling the weight of expectations, as the Pens were in 2016. I hope he can recover some of that magic with a fresh start like he has now.

edit: sorry, I wasnt trying to stir the pot as an outsider. Just a Pens fan who wandered in from the trade board.

 

[Punch Drunk Loov]

Is our goaltending situation going into this season optimal? No - but people are looking at this in a vacuum. There weren't any goalies on the market who didn't have question marks around them. The best goalie available (who just won a cup) is over 30 already and had to retrain his eye three times a day for the entire playoff run... and as much as I love Campbell, he comes with his own risks at five years.

The fact that we have a goaltending duo with this much upside, and we actually gained assets to assemble it, has to be seen as a worthwhile bet. There's a high level of risk with both these guys, but they've both proven they can be competent NHL goalies and they're both young enough to get better. All in all, I feel as good about this duo as any we could've realistically ended up with.

It's nice that we were paid a 3rd and a 7th, but these aren't great assets. The 7th is in 2024 and it will probably cost more than a 3rd to unload Murray this offseason if it doesn't work out.

If you want to go risky I'm on board, but we went expensive and risky with Murray. If we want to go for a duo and ride whoever is hot, I think we would've been better off with Samsonov and any number of middling goalies. I really hope I'm wrong but it's a little difficult to picture Murray being both healthy and above average. I think we could've achieved that result by spending far less than 4.7M

 

[Punch Drunk Loov]

Man oh man, two weeks later i still cant believe this move happened. I love Murray and will be forever grateful for his contributions as a Penguin. He was exactly the right guy that team needed in spring 2016: excited for his chance, nonchalant about any setbacks, a cool head unburdened by past years of failure.

All in all, he is a good dude who overcame adversity in Pittsburgh and did alot as a young man to help support his local community and keep his mind focused on the game when other things were getting to him. I was sad about the injuries and the setbacks, but in spring of 2018, I genuinely thought this guy was going to anchor the Pens in net for the next 10 years.

For his sake, I hope he hits the ground running in Toronto. The amount of ink spilled in anger from the Toronto media if he continues to struggle will drown him, the front office, and half the team. But if he follows a similar arc to what happened in 2016, he might be exactly the tonic in net that the team is looking for. Especially a team that is "pressing" and feeling the weight of expectations, as the Pens were in 2016. I hope he can recover some of that magic with a fresh start like he has now.

edit: sorry, I wasnt trying to stir the pot as an outsider. Just a Pens fan who wandered in from the trade board.

Here's hoping! Maybe if we make it to game 7 this year the players will look at Murray who has a great record in elimination games and it gives us a slight margin of confidence we need. It's a lot of pressure and we'll all be pulling for him.

 

[Brobust]

People have a short memory, but when the Leafs got out of the gate slowly the first two weeks of the season, it was Campbell's Vezina caliber play that helped stabilize the ship and give them a foundation to find their stride.

We have also proven capable of overcoming mediocre goaltending for long stretches, but we absolutely do need Murray and Samsonov to be strong for us as much as they can. And we'll absolutely need them to be quality in the playoffs. We can't refer to the Colorado method. As strong as the Leafs are, we would need Rielly to be a near Matthews level defenseman in order to dominate like Colorado and outscore all their goaltending issues.

They had a terrible record for the first two weeks.

 

[saltming]

My hope is based on that we could kept our team, when other contenders outside Carolina couldn't. Goalies aren't voodoo, but it would be false statement of saying that choosing goalie this summer wasn't partly voodoo. Every team acquiring goalie from that market is spinning the wheel and since we have good foundation, it should support that decision we make.

I'm hopeful because of that new goalie department, but time will tell. Has to say that I'm generally underwhelmed how Dubas has approached goalies and that department.

Last summer I was pessimistic, before that optimistic and now I'm somewhere in between.

Last year I was pessimistic and even the hot start for Campbell didn't shake it.
This year I'm optimistic, solely because they got rid of Briere and I like elkin. He's been around for a while and started very modestly in the field. His connection to Murray can work either way and as you said, time will tell.
Also I think the underrated pickup of samsonov was good. From the Woodley interview it sounds like he's matured and realized that his style needed tweaking to work in the NHL and he has been working on it and apparently Sanford is very versed in the adjustments samsonov needs to make for consistency.
We are due for a solid hit in net.

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

They had a terrible record for the first two weeks.

Yeah it was real bad. The team looked completely out of sorts and it seemed the Montreal loss had broken them permanently until that comeback win against Chicago.

 

[Punch Drunk Loov]

Here are some 2022 stats I'm presenting without comment:

Jack Campbell
Really bad starts (sv under 85%) - 10
Quality start percentage - .596%
Career Quality Starts: 70

Matt Murray
RBS - 3
QS% - .600%
Career Quality Starts: 126

 

[zeke]

They had a terrible record for the first two weeks.

Yep, Matthews missed the start and nobody on the team could score. it was kind of funny how poor their shooting luck was at the start.