Confirmed with Link: [TOR/OTT] Matt Murray (25% retention), a 3rd in 2023 and a 7th in 2024 for Future Considerations.

[Dekes For Days]

It’s amazing (but not surprising in the least) that the Mrazek and Murray moves that have universally been looked at as failures can be so rigorously defended by the folks at Dubas HQ.

What's amazing (but not surprising) is that you continue to believe that your niche, personal perception of things represents the "universal" opinion.

The Mrazek trade was widely regarded as good, for the record, and the Murray trade has received a varied mix of opinions, both positive and negative.

 

[Mess]

Matt Murray has always been a band-aid, even in Pittsburgh. Here's a headline from 2018:

Matt-alytics: Matt Murray Injury Numbers are Staggering

Murray has some history to overcome as he prepares for what would be his third Stanley Cup playoff run.

pittsburghhockeynow.com

Murray has dealt with injuries over NHL career - TSN.ca

Championships and injuries have made the first three seasons of Pittsburgh Penguins goaltender Matt Murray’s NHL career very eventful. Is Murray injury prone, unlucky or a combination for the two?

www.tsn.ca

Even as far back as the 2017 run, Marc-Andre Fleury played 15 games to Murray's cup clinching 12.

There's no point in trying to frame his injury track record another way. Just hope our staff can load manage him properly and there's enough redundancy in the tandem with Samsonov that we can navigate the 82 game regular season and have a hot hand during the playoff run.

Murray long injury history dates back to his Pittsburgh days, but has even increased in volume and intensity including now multiple concussions his past 2 years with Ottawa,

He dressed for just 27 games in 2021 and a mere 20 games in 2022 seasons. So the average being about 23-24 games (approximately 1/4 a season of availability on average).

So if this continues along these trending lines Leafs will need about 3/4 a seasons workload from Samsonov, Woll and Erik Källgren.

The playoffs are a grind playing in high tense situations every other day and requires availability of 22-24 games on average to go 4 rounds and hoist a Cup and might not be based on who is hot, but rather who is an option able to play.

 

[Nineteen67]

It’s amazing (but not surprising in the least) that the Mrazek and Murray moves that have universally been looked at as failures can be so rigorously defended by the folks at Dubas HQ.
Defense never rests, it must be exhausting.

I will be surprised if Samsonov is not the number 1 by Christmas and certainly when the playoffs begin.

 

[Zybalto]

It’s amazing (but not surprising in the least) that the Mrazek and Murray moves that have universally been looked at as failures can be so rigorously defended by the folks at Dubas HQ.
Defense never rests, it must be exhausting.

Anyone with half a brain thinks that Mrazek was an awful signing and are glad to be rid of him (the cost to get rid of him was actually pretty good considering how bad he was).

Attacking the Murray move before hes even played a game in front of an actual D for the first time in years is pretty dumb too though. Injuries are the big worry. I mean, Murray had the 4th best save% from Dec. to Feb. among regular goalies in the league last year while playing for the Sens.

Its like with Andersen the previous season putting up an .895 save% while Campbell and Hutch put up roughly .920s behind the same D. No one knew if he was gonna be able to stay healthy with the Canes but he managed to do it for a few months before getting knocked out for the final stretch/playoffs (and therfor having a first season failure)

The Leafs needed to switch their goaltending more than any team in the league and banked on a proven playoff performer with not much term whose been stuck on a bad team combined with a high pedegree underachiver who needed a change of local.

Hard to do anything for all the cap teams as we finish up the Covid cap era so lets see how our gambles pay off compared with the other big guns gambles before declaring them failures.

The goaltending was already near the bottom of the league. Lets wait and see here.

 

[Nineteen67]

Anyone with half a brain thinks that Mrazek was an awful signing and are glad to be rid of him (the cost to get rid of him was actually pretty good considering how bad he was).

Attacking the Murray move before hes even played a game in front of an actual D for the first time in years is pretty dumb too though. Injuries are the big worry. I mean, Murray had the 4th best save% from Dec. to Feb. among regular goalies in the league last year while playing for the Sens.

Its like with Andersen the previous season putting up an .895 save% while Campbell and Hutch put up roughly .920s behind the same D. No one knew if he was gonna be able to stay healthy with the Canes but he managed to do it for a few months before getting knocked out for the final stretch/playoffs (and therfor having a first season failure)

The Leafs needed to switch their goaltending more than any team in the league and banked on a proven playoff performer with not much term whose been stuck on a bad team combined with a high pedegree underachiver who needed a change of local.

Hard to do anything for all the cap teams as we finish up the Covid cap era so lets see how our gambles pay off compared with the other big guns gambles before declaring them failures.

The goaltending was already near the bottom of the league. Lets wait and see here.

Most people see the trade as gamble and the 75% cap hit is universally regarded as a failure. You have to wonder how far down the list Dubas went when settling on Murray.

 

[notbias]

Most people see the trade as gamble and the 75% cap hit is universally regarded as a failure. You have to wonder how far down the list Dubas went when settling on Murray.

The list was terrible this offseason. Name a good goalie to target. Murray may be close to #1.

 

[Nineteen67]

The list was terrible this offseason. Name a good goalie to target. Murray may be close to #1.

was Murray their #1 target?

 

[Zybalto]

Most people see the trade as gamble and the 75% cap hit is universally regarded as a failure. You have to wonder how far down the list Dubas went when settling on Murray.

Looking at the timing and statements, Murray looked to be at the or near the top of the list.

I personally didnt want him as Im sick of the injury issues the keepers have had but I also awknowlege he could work out great.

From December 1st to the end of the year, the Leafs had the 27th ranked goaltending (31st 5v5) in the NHL while having D numbers in the top ten accross the board. You would figure fans would love to see the change, especially seeing the guy is a proven playoff performer with 2 rings at only 28 (something we havnt had since Belfour) Lets see how the new guys do before obsessing over the deal as bad.

 

[notbias]

was Murray their #1 target?

Not sure. This is better than a lot of other options, still not happy with the trade, but hard to see many better potential tandems that were available.

 

[BrannigansLaw]

This is going to be a disaster. Plain as day to see.

 

[Nineteen67]

Looking at the timing and statements, Murray looked to be at the or near the top of the list.

I personally didnt want him as Im sick of the injury issues the keepers have had but I also awknowlege he could work out great.

From December 1st to the end of the year, the Leafs had the 27th ranked goaltending (31st 5v5) in the NHL while having D numbers in the top ten accross the board. You would figure fans would love to see the change, especially seeing the guy is a proven playoff performer with 2 rings at only 28 (something we havnt had since Belfour) Lets see how the new guys do before obsessing over the deal as bad.

The two issues that people are judging are the fact it’s a big gamble and the cap hit, which forced them into taking another gamble.

He can redeem himself and would be a huge story throughout the NHL, but there are reasons he cleared waivers.

Not sure. This is better than a lot of other options, still not happy with the trade, but hard to see many better potential tandems that were available.

I can’t imagine Murray at 4.7 was plan A.

 

[Nineteen67]

This is going to be a disaster. Plain as day to see.

Either that or great redemption story.

 

[saltming]

The two issues that people are judging are the fact it’s a big gamble and the cap hit, which forced them into taking another gamble.

He can redeem himself and would be a huge story throughout the NHL, but there are reasons he cleared waivers.


I can’t imagine Murray at 4.7 was plan A.

Cap hit should be judged by performance with the Leafs and any new acquisition is a gamble.

He cleared waiver because its pretty much impossible for any team to take on that cap hit mid season would be the biggest reason.

Plan A might have been to acquire Murray. The terms would be the details. All trades are barter so it becomes what the Leafs were willing or thought would be reasonable to take Murray.

 

[Notsince67]

What's amazing (but not surprising) is that you continue to believe that your niche, personal perception of things represents the "universal" opinion.

The Mrazek trade was widely regarded as good, for the record, and the Murray trade has received a varied mix of opinions, both positive and negative.

Mrazek wasnt this good...https://www.instagram.com/p/CgS0kcmFfvV/

 

[All Mod Cons]

The goaltending went really bad last year, and they still managed 54 wins, 115 points, and 2nd in the toughest division in hockey.

"Unlikely" isn't a strong enough word

I get the same feeling as I got when the usual suspects were jumping for joy that we managed to have a tandem of Campbell and Mrazek. Expected saves above average per 60 up the Ying yang.

It currently feels like we could trade for any goalie and there would be joy.

 

[Voodoo Child]

Campbell had some hard stretches, to call him bad though, I’m not sure. I’m 100% sure I didn’t want to give him the deal he ended up getting.

One thing though is that he was a well-liked guy and the boys liked playing in front of him. Those last few Freddy years they looked nervous.

We’d all love a guy like Vasilevskiy in net, but for this team to make the playoffs goaltending needs to be mediocre - which unless something unexpected happens like Samsonov taking the next step is about what I expect: league average with periods above and below the mean.

But it has to be resolved. Colorado was good enough to win with a mediocre goalie, but the Leafs aren’t.

 

[Jmo89]

Anyone with half a brain thinks that Mrazek was an awful signing and are glad to be rid of him (the cost to get rid of him was actually pretty good considering how bad he was).

Attacking the Murray move before hes even played a game in front of an actual D for the first time in years is pretty dumb too though. Injuries are the big worry. I mean, Murray had the 4th best save% from Dec. to Feb. among regular goalies in the league last year while playing for the Sens.

Its like with Andersen the previous season putting up an .895 save% while Campbell and Hutch put up roughly .920s behind the same D. No one knew if he was gonna be able to stay healthy with the Canes but he managed to do it for a few months before getting knocked out for the final stretch/playoffs (and therfor having a first season failure)

The Leafs needed to switch their goaltending more than any team in the league and banked on a proven playoff performer with not much term whose been stuck on a bad team combined with a high pedegree underachiver who needed a change of local.

Hard to do anything for all the cap teams as we finish up the Covid cap era so lets see how our gambles pay off compared with the other big guns gambles before declaring them failures.

The goaltending was already near the bottom of the league. Lets wait and see here.

The problem with the trade isn't whether Murray can rebound. Many of us think he can. The value of the trade was still garbage though. The picks they got are more in line for what you would expect from 50% retention not 25%, and even then its a little light. And for the record, I never thought we're getting one of their young prospects, that was always a pipe dream.

For me personally, I think it was a good move but bad trade.

 

[Zybalto]

Campbell had some hard stretches, to call him bad though, I’m not sure. I’m 100% sure I didn’t want to give him the deal he ended up getting.

One thing though is that he was a well-liked guy and the boys liked playing in front of him. Those last few Freddy years they looked nervous.

We’d all love a guy like Vasilevskiy in net, but for this team to make the playoffs goaltending needs to be mediocre - which unless something unexpected happens like Samsonov taking the next step is about what I expect: league average with periods above and below the mean.

But it has to be resolved. Colorado was good enough to win with a mediocre goalie, but the Leafs aren’t.

Kuemper was a .921 goalie last year and had 2 .920+ years playing in frigging Arizona. He didnt have a great playoffs but he didnt need to be great as the level of comp the Avs faced in the West was a bit of a joke TBH. In the end he made the saves when he needed to in the playoffs (and Tampa being completely injury-riddled by the finals sure helped as well).

The Leafs wernt giving him 6 million with term, thats for sure.

 

[Zybalto]

The two issues that people are judging are the fact it’s a big gamble and the cap hit, which forced them into taking another gamble.

He can redeem himself and would be a huge story throughout the NHL, but there are reasons he cleared waivers.

...and then after he came back from waivers due to the other two goalies being out , they threw him to the wolves against Toronto (outshot 40-20 in the game and they lost 6-0) and we all thought he was done and what does he do? he went .941 his next 11 starts, mostly against top-end offenses (Edmx2, Carolina, Bos, Pit, Wsh, etc.) I want to see what he will do on a good team.

Looking at all the top teams this season, The Leafs are in the best shape IMO. They've lost no really key parts while overhauling the worst parts of their team (3rd/4th lines, goaltending). I mean, big gamble? That Florida deal looks like the biggest gamble we've seen in forever....and it looks plain awful on the surface. Gutted the Presidents trophy winning team while completely gutting their future as well the last year.......and yet you have people thinking that was some sort of genius deal for the Cats while criticizing this one. Even that one could still well work out and they are reasonably close to when they were last season but the Panthers are still down all their firsts and prospects. Need to hit on some ELC's and picks, especially in the covid cap era.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Mrazek wasnt this good...https://www.instagram.com/p/CgS0kcmFfvV/

I don't know what you're trying to say. The link doesn't work.

 

[Notsince67]

I don't know what you're trying to say. The link doesn't work.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I get the same feeling as I got when the usual suspects were jumping for joy that we managed to have a tandem of Campbell and Mrazek. Expected saves above average per 60 up the Ying yang.

It currently feels like we could trade for any goalie and there would be joy.

Ha, interesting, I've been thinking more or less the opposite for a while now. Any time someone dares to make a post that contains some positivity or optimism, they immediately get responses such as "Dubas apologists", "drinking the koolaid", "insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result", "6 1st round exits" and so on.

The substance of any positive/optimistic/thoughtful post seems to be irrelevant (goalies, forwards, draftpicks, whatever) as this large number of posters assumes that anything Dubas does is wrong by default and they are always at their keyboards, ready to pounce.

 

[All Mod Cons]

Ha, interesting, I've been thinking more or less the opposite for a while now. Any time someone dares to make a post that contains some positivity or optimism, they immediately get responses such as "Dubas apologists", "drinking the koolaid", "insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result", "6 1st round exits" and so on.

The substance of any positive/optimistic/thoughtful post seems to be irrelevant (goalies, forwards, draftpicks, whatever) as this large number of posters assumes that anything Dubas does is wrong by default and they are always at their keyboards, ready to pounce.

Funny. I see the opposite a lot. Any time someone posts something that doesn't lap up Dubas, they're told to go follow the Kraken. Or you're not even a Leafs fan.

I see it happens to Mess nearly every day. The idea he's not a Leafs fan is laughable, but Pro-Dubas guys do Pro-Dubas.

 

[Dekes For Days]

He dressed for just 27 games in 2021 and a mere 20 games in 2022 seasons. So the average being about 23-24 games (approximately 1/4 a season of availability on average).

27 games was half the season in 2021.

 

[Racer88]

Ha, interesting, I've been thinking more or less the opposite for a while now. Any time someone dares to make a post that contains some positivity or optimism, they immediately get responses such as "Dubas apologists", "drinking the koolaid", "insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result", "6 1st round exits" and so on.

The substance of any positive/optimistic/thoughtful post seems to be irrelevant (goalies, forwards, draftpicks, whatever) as this large number of posters assumes that anything Dubas does is wrong by default and they are always at their keyboards, ready to pounce.

Interesting takes on both sides. One thing for sure is that Dubas is a divisive figure.