Confirmed with Link: [TOR/OTT] Matt Murray (25% retention), a 3rd in 2023 and a 7th in 2024 for Future Considerations.

[ACC1224]

How can it be a poor return if he wins the Vezina or takes us to the cup?
If he shuts the bed or is just mediocre I would agree, if we judge him at the end of the season compared to all the goalies that make the same money, we could better evaluate his worth.
That's jmho

I prefer to seperate the return from the player in this instance.
They were paid to take the player, they should have received more for helping the Sens out.

The trade for Foligno for example, they paid a price for a player to help them succeed.
Had that happened it would have been a fine price to pay, as it was it was another disaster.

** I can appreciate your view, just don't totally agree with it.

 

[DueDiligence]

the Leafs had already been elite for a number of years at the Sens' current age (where they've been a bottom feeder)

So if the Leafs win a round will they be super elite?

 

[ACC1224]

So if the Leafs win a round will they be super elite?

Some have a very different definition of 'elite'.

 

[saltming]

I prefer to seperate the return from the player in this instance.
They were paid to take the player, they should have received more for helping the Sens out.

The trade for Foligno for example, they paid a price for a player to help them succeed.
Had that happened it would have been a fine price to pay, as it was it was another disaster.

** I can appreciate your view, just don't totally agree with it.

So how do you separate the player and the return? Wouldn't the player value be based on the player performance?

Like if it was a complete cap dump for the Sens I would 100% agree, but I think there is the idea that this is a hockey trade. Yes, it's a risky one, but since it's not just a cap dump, shouldn't the value olbe measured against the player performance?

 

[ACC1224]

So how do you separate the player and the return? Wouldn't the player value be based on the player performance?

Like if it was a complete cap dump for the Sens I would 100% agree, but I think there is the idea that this is a hockey trade. Yes, it's a risky one, but since it's not just a cap dump, shouldn't the value olbe measured against the player performance?

I get what you're saying.
It's not often a bad team cap dumps a player on a good team.
Have to think about it some more.
One thing for certain, Murray had better work out regardless of the deal.

 

[notbias]

Why does suddenly no one care about playoff numbers here?

 

[Hoglund4MvP]

Why does suddenly no one care about playoff numbers here?

Why does suddenly no one care about health here?

 

[Dekes For Days]

Kinda crazy the team has the 2nd best record in the league while also having the 20th best goaltending.

To add on to this... Over the past 3 seasons, the goaltenders for the other 5 teams in the top-6 (Colorado, Florida, Boston, Tampa, Carolina) have had their goalies save between 33.6 and 80.9 more goals above expected than Toronto's goaltenders.

 

[saltming]

I get what you're saying.
It's not often a bad team cap dumps a player on a good team.
Have to think about it some more.
One thing for certain, Murray had better work out regardless of the deal.

Agreed! It's a big gamble and at a glance it seems the odds are this will be a bad trade. Let's see how smart this new goalie team is.

 

[Racer88]

So if the Leafs win a round will they be super elite?

Hahahahahahahah

Why does suddenly no one care about health here?

Because it’s to scary for some to consider

 

[Mess]

Well, the good thing is there is no carryover rule in the NHL, so no matter how good or bad you were last year they all start at zero this year.

Looks like if they play Samsonov 82 games he'd end up with 95 points.
So a slight improvement should get them into the playoffs.

That is what some us Leaf fans have been clinging to for the past 55 years and counting, and able to take solace knowing that after each disappointing season end, we all start fresh from zero the next year and do it again.

So in reality is really just short lived pain, and then only long-term accumulative pain.

In a Matt Murray thread we're hoping Samsonov the other goalie can save us. That sounds about right for Leaf Nation.

Now Matt Murray last year cleared NHL waivers and spent time in the AHL to try and find his game, and Samsonov was released without a qualifying offer by Washington also a Cup competitive team.
So if a slight improvement will get the Leafs into the playoffs (which hasn't been a problem the past 6 years), then how much of an improvement will be required from this cast of castoffs in net to hoist the Cup?

What was expected to be a meaningless regular season, with all eyes only the playoff results, has now added some intrigue with this new goalie swap out with Leafs going with reclamation castoff projects thinking it brings them c;loser to the Cup...
NO Problem !!! Last year Matthews needed to score 60 goals to overcome the goaltending, so this year he might need 75 goals for Leafs to outscore their weaknesses.

 

[Hoglund4MvP]

Hahahahahahahah


Because it’s to scary for some to consider

We fill all our missing need with broken down versions of what we need then people ask what the problem is.

We need playoff sandpaper spend a 1st on foligno. Run it through simmonds whose body is 45 years old. Run it through injury prone muzzin.

Need veterans to help lead in playoffs run it through Joe Thornton who cost us a game.

Now we need playoff pedigree as well as no.1 goalie kill two bird one stone run it through the no.1 goalie whose health this season is a coin flip.

Then they ask what the problem is.

 

[ULF_55]

That is what some us Leaf fans have been clinging to for the past 55 years and counting, and able to take solace knowing that after each disappointing season end, we all start fresh from zero the next year and do it again.

So in reality is really just short lived pain, and then only long-term accumulative pain.

In a Matt Murray thread we're hoping Samsonov the other goalie can save us. That sounds about right for Leaf Nation.

Now Matt Murray last year cleared NHL waivers and spent time in the AHL to try and find his game, and Samsonov was released without a qualifying offer by Washington also a Cup competitive team.
So if a slight improvement will get the Leafs into the playoffs (which hasn't been a problem the past 6 years), then how much of an improvement will be required from this cast of castoffs in net to hoist the Cup?

What was expected to be a meaningless regular season, with all eyes only the playoff results, has now added some intrigue with this new goalie swap out with Leafs going with reclamation castoff projects thinking it brings them c;loser to the Cup...
NO Problem !!! Last year Matthews needed to score 60 goals to overcome the goaltending, so this year he might need 75 goals for Leafs to outscore their weaknesses.

Well Murray wins Cups when he's in the playoffs.

 

[notbias]

Why does suddenly no one care about health here?

Health is a concern and a gamble, each goalie had a gamble that moved this offseason.

Everyone should be happy about his playoff stats.

 

[as Pure as Evil]

so if both goalies have a great years can we consider we have a defensive system that gets the most out of goalies. or will it be the goalie found another gear or regained

 

[saltming]

Why does suddenly no one care about health here?

The Leafs waited for an extensive health report on Murray before pulling the trigger, so the ones that count care.

Apparently a big injury he had last year was caused by the Sens doctor, so take that into account because a player won't be as willing to push through an injury if they don't trust the medical staff supporting them

 

[Golden_Jet]

The Leafs waited for an extensive health report on Murray before pulling the trigger, so the ones that count care.

Apparently a big injury he had last year was caused by the Sens doctor, so take that into account because a player won't be as willing to push through an injury if they don't trust the medical staff supporting them

I’m assuming that was like the Crosby one, neck or concussion.

 

[ACC1224]

The Leafs waited for an extensive health report on Murray before pulling the trigger, so the ones that count care.

Apparently a big injury he had last year was caused by the Sens doctor, so take that into account because a player won't be as willing to push through an injury if they don't trust the medical staff supporting them

The Doctor caused the injury ?

so if both goalies have a great years can we consider we have a defensive system that gets the most out of goalies. or will it be the goalie found another gear or regained

The defensive system is fine but no system can overcome poor goaltending.

 

[saltming]

The Doctor caused the injury ?


The defensive system is fine but no system can overcome poor goaltending.

Yes. He was treating Murray and caused a neck injury which caused Murray to be unable to close his glove hand and had problems raising it IIRC.

I’m assuming that was like the Crosby one, neck or concussion.

I'm thinking everything. I don't recall there being any specifics

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[Golden_Jet]

Yes. He was treating Murray and caused a neck injury which caused Murray to be unable to close his glove hand and had problems raising it IIRC.


I'm thinking everything. I don't recall there being any specifics

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Murray has always had issues with his glove hand, ask Pittsburg fans.
He’s like a lot of goalies now who seem to knock puck down with glove as opposed to catching it.

Sens medical staff is rated as one of the best, they frequently get asked by Hockey Canada to represent them at Olympics and World Championships.

Murray did play much better after they fired Goalie coach and hired a new one. If he stays healthy he could be good, Sens issue was they were always running with 3 goalies, as they couldn’t trust him.

If he does get injured give him a few games to get his groove back, then he’s pretty good.

I think the neck injury was caused by Kreider accidentally on purpose hitting him in the neck/ head with his knee.
That’s why I mentioned similar to Crosby where they thought maybe concussion But was neck.

 

[saltming]

Murray has always had issues with his glove hand, ask Pittsburg fans.
He’s like a lot of goalies now who seem to knock puck down with glove as opposed to catching it.

Sens medical staff is rated as one of the best, they frequently get asked by Hockey Canada to represent them at Olympics and World Championships.

Murray did play much better after they fired Goalie coach and hired a new one. If he stays healthy he could be good, Sens issue was they were always running with 3 goalies, as they couldn’t trust him.

If he does get injured give him a few games to get his groove back, then he’s pretty good.

I think the neck injury was caused by Kreider accidentally on purpose hitting him in the neck/ head with his knee.
That’s why I mentioned similar to Crosby where they thought maybe concussion But was neck.

Knocking the puck down with the glove is a ligit technique. Lots of goalies are targeted high glove. Not many have a glove hand like price.

Yes when they changed the goalie coach he narrowed his stance which improved his movement and made him better against East/West plays, that's another good sign for his potential to rebound.

Their medical team can have a high rating and still not be that good and or make mistakes. Being asked by team Canada only makes me think they have good contacts in the hockey political structure. I personally know a dentist that's highly rated and works for a globally known organization and I refuse his dental work and continue to see my dentist as his work is much much better in every aspect.

I didn't catch your meaning with the Crosby reference, so ya agreed there

 

[Golden_Jet]

Knocking the puck down with the glove is a ligit technique. Lots of goalies are targeted high glove. Not many have a glove hand like price.

Yes when they changed the goalie coach he narrowed his stance which improved his movement and made him better against East/West plays, that's another good sign for his potential to rebound.

Their medical team can have a high rating and still not be that good and or make mistakes. Being asked by team Canada only makes me think they have good contacts in the hockey political structure. I personally know a dentist that's highly rated and works for a globally known organization and I refuse his dental work and continue to see my dentist as his work is much much better in every aspect.

I didn't catch your meaning with the Crosby reference, so ya agreed there

I think we agree on a lot then.
The Crosby one they thought was a concussion but many months later they realized it was a neck injury.

This was the Kreider play I was referring to

 

[Racer88]

100% right

We fill all our missing need with broken down versions of what we need then people ask what the problem is.

We need playoff sandpaper spend a 1st on foligno. Run it through simmonds whose body is 45 years old. Run it through injury prone muzzin.

Need veterans to help lead in playoffs run it through Joe Thornton who cost us a game.

Now we need playoff pedigree as well as no.1 goalie kill two bird one stone run it through the no.1 goalie whose health this season is a coin flip.

Then they ask what the problem is.

100% right

The Doctor caused the injury ?


The defensive system is fine but no system can overcome poor goaltending.

nasty doctor

 

[saltming]

I think we agree on a lot then.
The Crosby one they thought was a concussion but many months later they realized it was a neck injury.

This was the Kreider play I was referring to

Ya that was nasty.
The fact it was a neck injury works in our favor too because concussions are usually a downward spiral

 

[Leaf Fans]

Are a 3rd, a 7th, and 1.6 million in cap space, not a lot?

People value cap space here like it is worth an insane amount, just not now?

Not for this deal anyway.