Confirmed with Link: [TOR/OTT] Matt Murray (25% retention), a 3rd in 2023 and a 7th in 2024 for Future Considerations.

[NMacrules]

Which is why they shouldn't talk if they don't understand incremental accounting.

People are allowed to talk about anything they want. You are not the posting police.

 

[kb]

Some wanted Forsberg at the TDL but Sens extended him. More proof that Sens were moving on from Murray. Dubas blew the negotiations but it is what it is. Until we see Murray in action this trade is going to sting.

Ah, so a 30 year old with a track record of being waived is now a goalie we are now coronating as better than 28 year old Murray?

 

[ShaneFalco]

If you think that Marner, a first-team NHL all-star, should only be valued at 8 mil, your understanding of player evaluation is off.

11 mill minus 2
But whatever
First team -all star, playoff GOD!

 

[Leafed]

I don't doubt that Murray can put up a great season. There is an upside where he's the best goalie the team's had since Belfour.

Still, questions arise about the deal itself - It's impossible to know everything that goes on behind the scenes, and it's partly due to insiders claiming "sweeteners" that expectations of what the deal would look like were so distorted, but it was believed that the Sens were determined to make this trade before today's buyout deadline. Had the move not happened, Murray would likely be bought out. So what was the motivation to make this deal as it was if you're the Leafs?

If he was the Leafs' guy, wouldn't he be more appealing as a free agent? Would he demand more than 4,687,500/2? Would term be the issue? If Ottawa determined the value of retaining 25% of the contract to be worth a 3rd + 7th, why not push Ottawa to offer those same terms to a third team to retain a further 25%? Murray @ 3,125,000 would be much more appealing to the Leafs than a 3rd + 7th pick.

 

[Ianturnedbull]

Such nonsense - he still has ~$6m in cap space, and could easily create more by moving Kerfoot/Holl/Muzzin, all guys that would gather interest.

He could also have paid more for Jack.

Don't put Dubas in the wise spender category if you don't want, but please use a little common sense. The Oilers went huge on term in some of their deals knowing the pressure that's on them, and probably do the same tomorrow

Why do you do this? Why prop up Dubas by putting another GM down?

Dubas could not pay for Jack because he didn't. They made an offer for him last year. This offseason they never even called him. Jack was not an option. Dubas has moved on from him. This is why TOR lost this deal. Dubas' options were the following:

1. Murray
2. Woll/Källgren

Now I don't want to just put down Kyle completely. If Murray bounces back then Dubas looks great (in regards to this deal).

Just to add: the 6 million dollars left will go into the RFAs, a 3rd line forward, and whole 4th line. Heck he could possibly spend 3 million on the 4th line alone.

 

[Fogelhund]

1967 Bower/Sawchuk
2022 Murray/Kalgren

Raise your hand if you thought Murray would be the next Leaf goalie to hoist the SC ?? Sigh.

Edit: God I hope this post does not age well. LOL

Perhaps wishful thinking, but it wouldn't shock me to see a breakout year, for Joseph Woll.

 

[ToneDog]

Ah, so a 30 year old with a track record of being waived is now a goalie we are now coronating as better than 28 year old Murray?

You got all the answers as usual. So what did you think of the return? I mean from what you were saying yesterday do you think Dubas got enough ??

 

[BertCorbeau]

The real question how much Anaheim would have retained and what picks they would have attached for us to take Gibson off their hands and hope he bounces back.

0 and 0

 

[CapspaceKiller]

If you think that Marner, a first-team NHL all-star, should only be valued at 8 mil, your understanding of player evaluation is off.

No kidding, Marner's a 10+m player any way you look at it.

 

[kb]

He could have just spent 3x4.75 on husso and had a goalie that hasn't been hurt for 3 years

Yep, he could have paid a 3rd plus a higher cap and longer term to sign a goalie who has one 3-4 week heater under his belt in 60 something career NHL games.

 

[ACC1224]

Perhaps wishful thinking, but it wouldn't shock me to see a breakout year, for Joseph Woll.

We are due for a pleasant surprise.

 

[rocketman588]

Florida, Colorado, Rangers, Edmonton, Carolina, and Calgary all need to replace a significant amount fo their roster (stopped looking for more), and many more important positions than the 4th line and a backup goalie.

Our situation is not too dire if Murray is a #1, that is the issue right now (and I agree with the issue).

Florida is pretty boned but

Oilers 15 mil (10 after jack)
Avs 14 mill 3/4 FWs 1 D
Flames 6/8 at most after tkachuck and mangiapane if they resign. 4 FWs 2 D
Carolina 26 mill 4 FWs 2 D

The flames and Panthers are the only ones in close to a situation like us obviously the flames might be a complete Shitshow next year however

 

[Gary Nylund]

I think that was the problem for the leafs. It was term vs. AAV. I think they easily match the AAV from Edmonton. However they don't want to sign anyone beyond the end of Matthews contract. If he doesn't return it's an instant rebuild.

That being said they could always buy out the last couple years of Campbell's contract.

I think that behind closed doors Campbell was getting blame from management for the first round losses when in fact it had much more to do with coaching and management than with Campbell.

No way to know for sure but I don't think that's it myself. I mean, it is term that is the issue with Campbell but I don't think they're that paranoid about Matthews leaving. Sure we lose in the playoffs every year but if he leaves, those losses are on him as well and we still have one of the top contenders here, he has Marner to play with and so on so there are many reasons to stay and stars like him rarely leave as UFA's anyway. So he could leave of course, it's just not that likely IMO.

I think it's just that 5 years for a guy with Campbell's history was seen to be a bigger risk than 2 years for a guy with Murray's history which seems reasonable to me.

 

[kb]

Even if you think Matthews doesn't f*** off outta here the first chance he gets, the window gets slammed shut when he's being paid $16m or whatever it'll take to keep him

The Leafs have to clear about $3 million to get Matthews $15 m x 8 AAV.

Any other team would have to clear over $17 million over 7 years just to fit him in.

Which ($3 m vs $17 m) is more likely to slam shut a window of contention?

 

[Captain Crunch]

Pretty bold to bet your job on this move
I mean that is what he is essentially doing

it is such a polarizing move that if it doesnt work, there is no way he survives it next offseason.

With the way the ownership has been going, I imagine they have told Dubas he has nothing to worry about and to do whatever he thinks is the best way.
I believe we will look back on his time here and wonder how he was able to screw things up so royally, with all the talent he was given. It’s possible JFJ won’t go down as one of the worst Leafs GM because of Dubas.

 

[rocketman588]

Yep, he could have paid a 3rd plus a higher cap and longer term to sign a goalie who has one 3-4 week heater under his belt in 62 career games.

Yet we're banking on a dude who had a two week heater and a bunch of ass 4 years at a cap hit of 200k less.

Instead of trying to get husso for a third we traded a 4th for a 4th this year to take a gamble on an overage swedish goalie

 

[Mess]

Well in that scenario they would give up a draft pick and have to sign an extra year.

In this case they gain two draft picks, with one less year.

Husso has nice numbers but is 27, with 66 games under his belt. And he wasn’t that good in the playoffs.

Who’s a bigger risk? Hard to say but the Leafs at least gained assets in assuming their risk.

It’s almost the same with Georgiev

If the Leafs dealt their 1st to dump Mrazak and recapture $3.8 mil and then apply the new cap space to cover incoming Murray's new $4.68 mil then don't our Leafs have draft capital also connected to their goalie position?

 

[Dragao6]

This team made Anderson and Campbell look like all stars yes?
Just improve the back line and it will be fine
Not a huge fan of this but in the past people on here prob wished for leafs to get him?
He’s a 2 time Stanley cup champ I think?
Let’s Waite till the puck gets dropped

 

[Razz]

Campbell's play during the 2022 calendar year was so bad, that we really can't be surprised that the Leafs would balk at a long-term deal. It was that bad...I am astounded we continued to win despite our goaltending last season. Matt Murray is at worst a lateral move and at best a major upgrade over what we had last season. Let's hope a reliable backup is found because clearly we will need one given Murray's injury history.

 

[rocketman588]

11 mill minus 2
But whatever
First team -all star, playoff GOD!

Didn't Phillip forsburg just get 8x8.5 as a pending ufa?

He's pretty trash I hear

 

[BertCorbeau]

If the Leafs dealt their 1st to dump Mrazak and recapture $3.8 mil and then apply the new cap space to cover incoming Murray's new $4.68 mil then don't our Leafs have draft capital also connected to their goalie position?

Yes but in either scenario (Husso or Murray, or whoever else would/might be brought in) that cost would be the same. Moving Mrazek was necessary to bring in new goalies.

 

[ACC1224]

Has Dubas commented on the trade yet?

 

[JKG33]

The Leafs have to clear about $3 million to get Matthews $15 m x 8 AAV.

Any other team would have to clear over $17 million over 7 years just to fit him in.

Which ($3 m vs $17 m) is more likely to slam shut a window of contention?

I don't think Matthews cares about 7 vs 8 years, either way he'll be in his early 30's when it expires and eligible for another huge contract. It's not like he'll be washed and that extra year means something. He won't care if it's an 8th year of one contract or a 1st year of another contract

 

[zeke]

This is a pretty crazy move.

Way too much money to make a gamble like this. Chances of Murray being even a solid average full time #1 are not great.

Dubey betting his career on this one.

 

[kb]

Florida is pretty boned but

Oilers 15 mil (10 after jack)
Avs 14 mill 3/4 FWs 1 D
Flames 6/8 at most after tkachuck and mangiapane if they resign. 4 FWs 2 D
Carolina 26 mill 4 FWs 2 D

The flames and Panthers are the only ones in close to a situation like us obviously the flames might be a complete Shitshow next year however

Edmonton currently has 13 players signed, including 4 RFA's left to sign. Worse than the Leafs
Avs have to make decisions going forward on Kadri, but they are in decent shape (but with Mack's new contract on the horizon).
Carolina has $19 million and needs 4 F and 2D. Not bad shape.