Confirmed with Link: [TOR/OTT] Matt Murray (25% retention), a 3rd in 2023 and a 7th in 2024 for Future Considerations.

[ToneDog]

Dorian ' And to sweaten the deal I will throw in a seventh rd pick, you seem to like those "

Dubas can't help himself with smurfs and players he is familiar with from the Soo. Everybody knew the Sens were desperate to dump this guy and his salary and he took him with a 4.7m cap hit. Makes zero sense unless the doctors figured out that he can do straight to LTIR.

 

[sxvnert]

View attachment 567672

The plan failed once they bent over on all contracts and cap increases ground to a halt.

 

[smitty10]

Friedman said this morning that Murray can't be bought out because he ended the season on LTIR.

Then shouldn't this have been more ammunition for Dubas to get more retention? Or at least more value? I understand the trade. I don't understand the value at all.

 

[LastOne2100]

This is pure BS. Nice try. Cap friendly still has teams over the cap and the Leafs are nowhere near it.

You do realize that every point made by lying is negated by the lie.

There are as few teams that have had to make as many significant compromises over as long of a period due to the cap as the Leafs have.

Except maybe teams like the Lightning, and they have cups to show for it.

No other team has a salary crap structure like ours.

Usually teams have expiring contracts that help, or can move something out that frees something up. We don't have many of those moves to make as our top 4 make an insane percentage of our cap, and are either untradeable, or tradeable but you'd never win that trade.

 

[phil162888]

Honestly I would've thought 50% retention and a 2nd and 3rd rd pick....Dubas ripped off Chicago kid GM but looks to have fallen into a similar fate in this deal

 

[NMacrules]

Good lord you obviously have not taken a course on cost/managerial accounting. Could we have realistically taken this deal without giving up mrazek? That cost needs to be factored. The cost of cap space needs to be factored and the cost of not upgrading other spots need to be factored. Most of all we got less than what buffalo was going to get for 25 pct. So no, you're analogy makes no sense.

You make it sound like everyone takes that course? Maybe you, but believe it or not, most haven't taken that course....obviously.

 

[CanHeDoIt99]

He literally bridged them. They're all walking to free agency on a non max term the only difference was that he did it while paying them all insane amounts of money

He bet on the cap going way up and got burned then refused to fix his mistake

He didn't have to keep all 4 of them after the pandemic hit

if 6 year deals (8 years max allowed) are bridges to Nylander and Marner... I don't know what to tell you.

He bet on the cap going up. Pandemic hit - cap didn't go up. He needs to pivot - go back to the day COVID hit and the pandemic started. What do you do - which of Nylander/Marner are you trading and for what exactly? You can't trade JT, he has a NMC.

 

[ToneDog]

And in Ottawa Pierre Dorion is getting a bonus for getting rid of his more expensive Petr Mrazek and he did so to their rivals.

 

[OptimusReim]

Two sides to this and they're both positive IMO:

1) Dubas was actually a genius all along and we go deep in the playoffs
2) Leafs fail to advance in the playoffs again, Dubas gets fired and we can move on with a competent GM.

 

[PromisedLand]

Without looking it up I'm going to guess Murray is owed a big signing bonus on Wednesday and that's why Ottawa was in such a rush to get this done?

Why else wouldn't Dubas' have waited to see what shakes out with free agents?

No signing bonus but he is actually owed more in actual dollars compared to prior two years. Dorion had no leverage and still came out on top like a boss. He saves his franchise money, gets cap space and can get a better asset that can contribute OR start negotiations with DeBrincat for resigning.

 

[Goose]

I generally don’t get too riled up about Dubas’ moves, but this one is hard to take.

Feels like such a patently bad deal that I feel like I must be missing something.

 

[LeafEgo]

I don’t get that sense.

In fact, a safer target with long term or selling futures to acquire is more desperate than a huge gamble to keep term down and maintain long term flexibility.

Why would he care about not committing a lot of money or term if he doesn’t plan to be here to see it through?

If his job was officially on the line you would think some limitations would be put in place on mortgaging the future.

 

[kb]

Let be 100% honest here.

There are only 3 goalies who I consider to be at the top tier (Vasi, Shesterkin, Helly).

Anyone else carries risks. All of them - whether it be age, injury - whatever....carry a risk. So failing one of those 3, you aren't getting any performance guarantees from year to year.

This whole thing about "Goaltending shouldn't ever have been an issue" is bunk, because right now there are only 3 that can give you that guarantee.

 

[Stephen]

I mean its pretty easy to see the receipts of opinions/decisions - ones praised by folks to utilize the data, and ones ripped on by the same.

When Matt Murray was traded to Ottawa, i'm curious what the pro scouting community thought.

No, I’m saying if you lead with the idea you don’t understand goalies and write it off as voodoo, maybe let goalies speak for themselves and their craft.

 

[CanHeDoIt99]

There are as few teams that have had to make as many significant compromises over as long of a period due to the cap as the Leafs have.

Except maybe teams like the Lightning, and they have cups to show for it.

No other team has a salary crap structure like ours.

Usually teams have expiring contracts that help, or can move something out that frees something up. We don't have many of those moves to make as our top 4 make an insane percentage of our cap, and are either untradeable, or tradeable but you'd never win that trade.

The Leafs not having bad contracts coming off the books to help fund additional players speaks more to positive cap management to be honest, which in a lot of ways makes up for the pandemic's impact. I'm pretty happy Dubas was the GM throughout the pandemic because Lou's ability to go stupid with money would have ensured one of Nylander/Marner had to be traded for pennies so the Leafs could pay Leo Komarov or something.

 

[NMacrules]

Sorry another thing to add, I would usually edit but just wanted more eyes on this comment.

Why do people quote games played as if it’s an analytically projectable thing? As far as I’m concerned, Murray has no lingering injury concerns.

It’s like saying since Matthews didn’t complete a full season from 17-19 don’t expect him to play 75+ games in 20. It just doesn’t work that way.

So you didn't take "probability 101" in university then?

 

[wingman75]

First off, I think Murray is terrible... would love for him to prove me wrong.
Secondly, does he even play 20 games? This guy has been softer than Freddy by a long shot.
If this was the best solution, one of the big forwards should have been traded. We have zero chance imo, regardless of who our backup ends up being. Think of how good Jack was at the start, and the end of the season... now imagine a full season with bad Jack... do we even make the playoffs? Hope to fck this works out.

 

[CanHeDoIt99]

No, I’m saying if you lead with the idea you don’t understand goalies and write it off as voodoo, maybe let goalies speak for themselves and their craft.

Isn't that is what the Leafs are doing here with Murray and their goaltending team group (Elken?)

 

[Stephen]

That's the second time this fallacy has been spewed.

They lost out on Husso, who took a 3rd to acquire, and was vastly overpaid for a 3-4 week heater and absolutely nothing else, and Vanacek.

Please share this long list of all the goalies that he was 'outmanoeuvred' on?

Fleury? They couldn’t have back channeled a trade for his rights? Soon to be Campbell who is headed to Edmonton? Georgiev for scraps to the cup champs?

 

[CherryToke]

The problem goes higher up than Dubas.

Leafs horribly managed, Jays horribly managed, Rogers network horribly managed.

Does Rogers have a management problem? Stupid hires stupid as they say.

 

[BertCorbeau]

Fleury? They couldn’t have back channeled a trade for his rights? Soon to be Campbell who is headed to Edmonton? Georgiev for scraps to the cup champs?

I mean Minny was always wanting to re-sign him, and they did .. so that really wasn't a realistic option. They weren't trading his rights.

 

[Icelevel]

Murray was really good for us most of the time. It’s a better fit for him there and I’m expecting him to be pretty good next yr.

 

[saffronleaf]

So Matt Murray for two years at 4.7 is Dubas grand plan? Are you f*cking serious? All this is is a gamble, with this core he is literally just gambling, hoping and praying he returns to form, if he was like last season we let the better goalie walk in free agency.

What a joke.

maybe he's laying the groundwork for his future career at Sports Interaction

 

[CanHeDoIt99]

Fleury? They couldn’t have back channeled a trade for his rights? Soon to be Campbell who is headed to Edmonton? Georgiev for scraps to the cup champs?

How do they convince Minnesota to trade them Fleury's rights when Minnesota wanted to sign Fleury and ultimately did?

Campbell 5x5 is matchable by TOR - they chose not to. Its not about being out maneuvered, the just didn't want to sign that deal.

Georgiev was available, I guess you can say they were out manoeuvred on him - but the price COL paid for him (multiple picks) and to give him a 3 year deal at over 3M despite having a worse season than Murray did last year (and frankly, doesn't have Murray's pedigree)?

 

[SprDaVE]

Seems like there's a call for positivity. Here it is.

The Leafs are putting their risks into a goaltender signed for a couple years instead of risking it into a Grubauer and Ullmark level goaltender. Kuemper and Campbell are 5 years at least, Murray is 2.

If it doesn't work out, getting out of the Murray deal won't be that bad. If it doesn't work out on the Campbell or Kuemper deals, it's a disaster. Leafs got a top 90 pick for taking that risk.

I'm not gonna sit here and say that Murray can be a star level goaltender. I thought Mrazek would be good. So I think Murray on a great team could probably work out. He had a decent season on an awful team. The bigger issue is health.