Confirmed with Link: [TOR/OTT] Matt Murray (25% retention), a 3rd in 2023 and a 7th in 2024 for Future Considerations.

[Mess]

It has been discussed before but understand that it's got to be over 95% of NHL players and personnel who have no connection whatsoever to the Soo. It's a crazy over-representation. If you've got pro and amateur scouting you've hired and believe in, that should never happen because the best player (or front office hire) available at any time has at least a 95% chance of not having a connection to the Soo Greyhound organization.

I see your 95% and raise you 100%

Dubas already made trades involving 3 X ex-Soo Greyhound goalie Jack Campbell, Robin Lehhner and now Matt Murray that makes him batting 1000%, since there are currently only 3 NHL goalies with ties to he Soo.

Its just too bad really that none of the really good goalies in the NHL played in the SOO, or we might have better lower risk options available.

You do have to like the irony that an ex Soo GM Dubas, hires an ex-Soo coach Keefe, and ex-Soo Goalie coach Jon Elkin, who all worked together and failed together in the Soo with ex Soo goalie Matt Murray in net at the OHL level, that now the gang is all back together again, they believe its Leafs answer to playoff success at the NHL level, because the reason given past "familiarity" with the netminder for this attempted experiment.

 

[Tarmore]

I see your 95% and raise you 100%

Dubas already made trades involving 3 X ex-Soo Greyhound goalie Jack Campbell, Robin Lehhner and now Matt Murray that makes him batting 1000%, since there are currently only 3 NHL goalies with ties to he Soo.

Its just too bad really that none of the really good goalies in the NHL played in the SOO, or we might have better lower risk options available.

I fail to see the problem with your example

Jack Campbell - great performance for the salary we were paying him -good
Robin Lehhner - Turned for assets - good
Matt Murray - TBD

So far Dubas is batting 100% good with one outcome yet to be determined. That's very good.

 

[Dekes For Days]

How many is too many Soo players?

Where players have played throughout their career is irrelevant. What's important is that they can help the NHL team now.

Also, hilarious that you attempted to count somebody we just retained on for a draft pick. Talk about reaching.

 

[Gabriel426]

Haha indeed. I'm accused of being a clone/alt of two guys who I've argued with so much, that they're the only two posters that I'm on mutual ignore with. I guess it's a sign of the times, you can criticize a number of things Dubas has done but as soon as you defend him for something, some people just lose their minds.

This place has gone so far downhill, I can only hope things get better once the games start but who knows.

I hope so too.

 

[Stephen]

It has been discussed before but understand that it's got to be over 95% of NHL players and personnel who have no connection whatsoever to the Soo. It's a crazy over-representation. If you've got pro and amateur scouting you've hired and believe in, that should never happen because the best player (or front office hire) available at any time has at least a 95% chance of not having a connection to the Soo Greyhound organization.

There’s nothing egregiously wrong with going back to Soo alumni or prior relationships in this sport but when it feels like a go to move you kind of wonder if it’s the Gord Stellick and his Belleville Bulls obsession in 1989…

Getting back to Murray. Knowing what we know now about Ottawa’s offseason ambitions, I wonder if there was any pressure point that could have been applied so that Ottawa would have just bought out Murray? Make waves about a hard pitch for Giroux, force them to buy Murray out and scoop him up for league minimum.

 

[Stephen]

Where players have played throughout their career is irrelevant. What's important is that they can help the NHL team now.

Also, hilarious that you attempted to count somebody we just retained on for a draft pick. Talk about reaching.

You might want to check your notes on that first point. Think Dubas has spoken about the strength of relationships in the game and belief in people when talking about Soo guys.

 

[Gabriel426]

There’s nothing egregiously wrong with going back to Soo alumni or prior relationships in this sport but when it feels like a go to move you kind of wonder if it’s the Gord Stellick and his Belleville Bulls obsession in 1989…

Getting back to Murray. Knowing what we know now about Ottawa’s offseason ambitions, I wonder if there was any pressure point that could have been applied so that Ottawa would have just bought out Murray? Make waves about a hard pitch for Giroux, force them to buy Murray out and scoop him up for league minimum.

but to some here, they believe if Murray is actually a UFA this off-season, teamS will be rushing to sign him on multi year deals around 5 mil.

 

[Mess]

I fail to see the problem with your example

Jack Campbell - great performance for the salary we were paying him -good
Robin Lehhner - Turned for assets - good
Matt Murray - TBD

So far Dubas is batting 100% good with one outcome yet to be determined. That's very good.

Here is my viewpoint, calling balls and strikes when calculating batting average.

Jack Campbell - Leafs Salary Cap issues and mismanagement resulted in Leafs having to go cheap and only afford $1,650,000 for a starting goalie Campbell (an NHL backup) and then thought they could beat Carey Price @ $10 mil AAV and Andrei Vasilevskiy $9.5 mil AAV in a playoff series, who are arguably 2 of the best goalies in the game (when healthy) resulting in Lost in round #1 in 2021 and 2022. While Montreal with Price played Tampa with Vas for the Stanley Cup in 2021.

Robin Lehner - Leafs decided to retain $1.1 mil salary to facilitate a deal between Chicago and Vegas at trade deadline instead of helping their own team.
Toronto traded • rights to Martins Dzierkals in a 3-team trade with Blackhawks, Golden Knights for • 2020 fifth round pick (from Golden Knights) while retaining $1.1 mil (44% of Chicago 50%) retention on 2020-02-24. Leafs back in 2015 traded back & out of the 1st round #24 (Travis Konecny) to pick up 3rd #68 Martin Dzierkals, and now dealt him for a 5th in return, while eating $1.1 mil cap in retention. Instead of using that free cap space of $1.1 mil to help the Leafs in the playoffs resulting in Lost in play-in round to Columbus in 2020.

Matt Murray - Inter-divisional contract dump with retention and draft picks for a goalie that only played in 20 games, while missing 38 to injury coming off an Ottawa career with 3.34 GAA and .899 sv%, with a combined GSAx of -12.7 in 47 games with Sens, that saw him win only 15 games these past 2 seasons. Toronto playoff results in 2023 TBD.

So far all ex-Soo goalie connections have resulted in Lost in round #1 X 3 and gambling on a high risk reclamation contract dump to prevent Lost in round #1 in 2023, but that is still TBD at present. I also have Dubas batting 100% but I'm counting only the strike-outs so far.

PS. I believe Chicago taking on Mrazek contract dump this year to help out Toronto, was likely payback in part for that earlier 3-way deal that helped Hawks with cap space assistance when they needed it, Leafs needed the $3.8 mil from Mrazek to afford to attempt the $$4,687,500 ex Soo Greyhound Matt Murray attempt. Would Matt Murray be a Leaf today if Chicago didn't make that trade at the draft?

 

[Stephen]

Here is my viewpoint, calling balls and strikes when calculating batting average.

Jack Campbell - Leafs Salary Cap issues and mismanagement resulted in Leafs having to go cheap and only afford $1,650,000 for a starting goalie and then thought they could beat Carey Price @ $10 mil AAV and Andrei Vasilevskiy $9.5 mil AAV in a playoff series, who are arguably 2 of the best goalies in the game (when healthy) resulting in Lost in round #1 in 2021 and 2022. While Montreal with Price played Tampa with Vas for the Stanley Cup in 2021.

Robin Lehner - Leafs decided to retain $1.1 mil salary to facilitate a deal between Chicago and Vegas at trade deadline instead of helping their own team.
Toronto traded • rights to Martins Dzierkals in a 3-team trade with Blackhawks, Golden Knights for • 2020 fifth round pick (from Golden Knights) while retaining $1.1 mil (44% of Chicago 50%) retention on 2020-02-24. Leafs back in 2015 traded back & out of the 1st round #24 (Travis Konecny) to pick up 3rd #68 Martin Dzierkals, and now dealt him for a 5th in return. Instead of using that free cap space of $1.1 mil to help the Leafs in the playoffs resulting in Lost in play-in round to Columbus in 2021.

Matt Murray - Inter-divisional contract dump with retention and draft picks for a goalie that only played in 20 games, while missing 38 to injury coming off an Ottawa career with 3.34 GAA and .899 sv%, with a combined GSAx of -12.7 in 47 games with Sens, that saw him win only 15 games these past 2 seasons. Toronto playoff results in 2023 TBD.

So far all ex-Soo goalie connections have resulted in Lost in round #1 X 3 and gambling on a high risk reclamation contract dump to prevent Lost in round #1 in 2023, but that is still TBD at present. I also have Dubas batting 100% but I'm counting only the strike-outs so far.

Just comes down to optics. Like I always say your evaluation of Dubas starts with expectations. Remember around 2015 he was hired as the hockey equivalent of a Theo Epstein. Young genius who could restore a storied franchise, win a cup, build the best team in the world.

If the recipe looks like it just relies heavily on bringing in buds from back home, the process just looks unimaginative even if there’s nothing wrong with the players themselves.

 

[Nineteen67]

When does training camp start?

 

[Dekes For Days]

You might want to check your notes on that first point. Think Dubas has spoken about the strength of relationships in the game and belief in people when talking about Soo guys.

Sure, familiarity can assist you in getting the most out of somebody or help you target undervalued or high character players, which is why most GMs have these tendencies, but the important thing is that the acquired player helps the team (which they largely have), not where they played a decade ago.

Knowing what we know now about Ottawa’s offseason ambitions, I wonder if there was any pressure point that could have been applied so that Ottawa would have just bought out Murray? Make waves about a hard pitch for Giroux, force them to buy Murray out and scoop him up for league minimum.

It's unlikely that they would have bought him out. They probably would have just traded him elsewhere or kept him if we didn't acquire him. And if he was bought out, he certainly was getting far more than league minimum.

 

[Mess]

Just comes down to optics. Like I always say your evaluation of Dubas starts with expectations. Remember around 2015 he was hired as the hockey equivalent of a Theo Epstein. Young genius who could restore a storied franchise, win a cup, build the best team in the world.

If the recipe looks like it just relies heavily on bringing in buds from back home, the process just looks unimaginative even if there’s nothing wrong with the players themselves.

What was funny about the ex-Soo Greyhound connection with Dubas and Lehner familiarity of the past, was that Lehner decided to troll Dubas thereafter jokingly.

This was his tweet "spoofing the Tavares to Toronto move, because a young JT was in Leaf bed sheets" and got to come to Toronto.

As part of the trade, Toronto retained part of Lehner’s salary, and their inclusion in the trade led to a fantastic tweet by the Golden Knights’ new goalie.

Robin Lehner trolls the Maple Leafs with another brilliant tweet



The man whose nickname is “The Panda” tweeted out a photo shopped picture of a panda sleeping in Maple Leafs bed sheets. Leafs fans are already a little down after a quiet day at the deadline, and this hilarious photoshop is a little salt in the wound. Looks like Lehner will fit in nicely with the Golden Knights after all. Leafs missed out on an opportunity for a goalie upgrade.

John Tavares original tweet.

 

[notbias]

I already did .. ".because of need to protect Justin Holl in the expansion draft." He should have protected McCann as he went on score 27 goals and was Seattle's leading scorer.

Seattle could have chosen Kerfoot or Engvall also but they made a good choice with McCann otherwise Leafs would have had him on last years roster.

Just because Dubas acquires ex Soo Greyhound, doesn't mean they all stay and work out..

Dubas let Jack Campbell walk and he signed and then traded Nick Ritchie when those former Soo Greyhounds were no longer needed or wanted.

What you're describing, to me, tells me that he doesn't have blind loyalty to ex-Soo players, if he is willing to ship them out when they don't work out or if they are not preferred over a non-Soo player.

This whole narrative started cause Sandin was his first pick, it also looks like a really good pick, so maybe it had nothing to do with a Soo connection, he hasn't been their GM in a long time.

This is no different than the myth he overpays everyone, he overpaid Marner, not much else.

People who hate Dubas ride these narratives, just go back to writing "can't win a round" it has far more relevance than this made-up need for Soo players.

 

[DarkKnight]

It makes sense in a general approach like you would choose Sandin over Holl, or likely keep Robertson over a Simmonds or something like that. But you need your goalie experts to be able to weigh in and just tell you Sparks has X, Y, Z issues and here are some alternative options.

I think goaltending perhaps has to be looked at differently. You’d never turf a a Holl until a Sandin shows he has some game at this level. Position players have the benefit of “easing ” into the lineup, goalies are baptism by fire. So, on one hand they could say Sparks proved himself (although people may recall that AHL championship run he was close to losing the net a couple times) and you wanted to show you reward development. Trouble is, you had the NHL solution in place, McBackup gave you exactly what you needed and it’s the toughest mental job in hockey. As we sit here now, Sparks was a headcase, and he was fundamentally flawed as a goaltender…both those things should have been well considered by the Marlies brass and the question was then simple: does Spark possess the skillset and mindset to succeed in the NHL? They obviously concluded he did and forced him into the lineup, despite a red flag training camp to boot. To me it boils down to inserting uncertainty when none existed, and that’s not sound logic.

 

[LeafEgo]

Here is my viewpoint, calling balls and strikes when calculating batting average.

Jack Campbell - Leafs Salary Cap issues and mismanagement resulted in Leafs having to go cheap and only afford $1,650,000 for a starting goalie Campbell (an NHL backup) and then thought they could beat Carey Price @ $10 mil AAV and Andrei Vasilevskiy $9.5 mil AAV in a playoff series, who are arguably 2 of the best goalies in the game (when healthy) resulting in Lost in round #1 in 2021 and 2022. While Montreal with Price played Tampa with Vas for the Stanley Cup in 2021.

Robin Lehner - Leafs decided to retain $1.1 mil salary to facilitate a deal between Chicago and Vegas at trade deadline instead of helping their own team.
Toronto traded • rights to Martins Dzierkals in a 3-team trade with Blackhawks, Golden Knights for • 2020 fifth round pick (from Golden Knights) while retaining $1.1 mil (44% of Chicago 50%) retention on 2020-02-24. Leafs back in 2015 traded back & out of the 1st round #24 (Travis Konecny) to pick up 3rd #68 Martin Dzierkals, and now dealt him for a 5th in return, while eating $1.1 mil cap in retention. Instead of using that free cap space of $1.1 mil to help the Leafs in the playoffs resulting in Lost in play-in round to Columbus in 2020.

Matt Murray - Inter-divisional contract dump with retention and draft picks for a goalie that only played in 20 games, while missing 38 to injury coming off an Ottawa career with 3.34 GAA and .899 sv%, with a combined GSAx of -12.7 in 47 games with Sens, that saw him win only 15 games these past 2 seasons. Toronto playoff results in 2023 TBD.

So far all ex-Soo goalie connections have resulted in Lost in round #1 X 3 and gambling on a high risk reclamation contract dump to prevent Lost in round #1 in 2023, but that is still TBD at present. I also have Dubas batting 100% but I'm counting only the strike-outs so far.

PS. I believe Chicago taking on Mrazek contract dump this year to help out Toronto, was likely payback in part for that earlier 3-way deal that helped Hawks with cap space assistance when they needed it, Leafs needed the $3.8 mil from Mrazek to afford to attempt the $$4,687,500 ex Soo Greyhound Matt Murray attempt. Would Matt Murray be a Leaf today if Chicago didn't make that trade at the draft?

Pretty wild Leafs paid more than a milly to draft Grebyonkin. Good chance they never pay him that amount in salary over his whole career.

It's good to be rich.

 

[ACC1224]

When does training camp start?

Not soon enough

 

[Dekes For Days]

Pretty wild Leafs paid more than a milly to draft Grebyonkin.

Except they didn't. The Lehner retention deal cost them 242k.

 

[Leaf Fans]

Here is my viewpoint, calling balls and strikes when calculating batting average.

Jack Campbell - Leafs Salary Cap issues and mismanagement resulted in Leafs having to go cheap and only afford $1,650,000 for a starting goalie Campbell (an NHL backup) and then thought they could beat Carey Price @ $10 mil AAV and Andrei Vasilevskiy $9.5 mil AAV in a playoff series, who are arguably 2 of the best goalies in the game (when healthy) resulting in Lost in round #1 in 2021 and 2022. While Montreal with Price played Tampa with Vas for the Stanley Cup in 2021.

Robin Lehner - Leafs decided to retain $1.1 mil salary to facilitate a deal between Chicago and Vegas at trade deadline instead of helping their own team.
Toronto traded • rights to Martins Dzierkals in a 3-team trade with Blackhawks, Golden Knights for • 2020 fifth round pick (from Golden Knights) while retaining $1.1 mil (44% of Chicago 50%) retention on 2020-02-24. Leafs back in 2015 traded back & out of the 1st round #24 (Travis Konecny) to pick up 3rd #68 Martin Dzierkals, and now dealt him for a 5th in return, while eating $1.1 mil cap in retention. Instead of using that free cap space of $1.1 mil to help the Leafs in the playoffs resulting in Lost in play-in round to Columbus in 2020.

Matt Murray - Inter-divisional contract dump with retention and draft picks for a goalie that only played in 20 games, while missing 38 to injury coming off an Ottawa career with 3.34 GAA and .899 sv%, with a combined GSAx of -12.7 in 47 games with Sens, that saw him win only 15 games these past 2 seasons. Toronto playoff results in 2023 TBD.

So far all ex-Soo goalie connections have resulted in Lost in round #1 X 3 and gambling on a high risk reclamation contract dump to prevent Lost in round #1 in 2023, but that is still TBD at present. I also have Dubas batting 100% but I'm counting only the strike-outs so far.

PS. I believe Chicago taking on Mrazek contract dump this year to help out Toronto, was likely payback in part for that earlier 3-way deal that helped Hawks with cap space assistance when they needed it, Leafs needed the $3.8 mil from Mrazek to afford to attempt the $$4,687,500 ex Soo Greyhound Matt Murray attempt. Would Matt Murray be a Leaf today if Chicago didn't make that trade at the draft?

Sure. If your game is baseball. It doesn't apply to hockey though.

 

[justashadowof]

Just comes down to optics. Like I always say your evaluation of Dubas starts with expectations. Remember around 2015 he was hired as the hockey equivalent of a Theo Epstein. Young genius who could restore a storied franchise, win a cup, build the best team in the world.

If the recipe looks like it just relies heavily on bringing in buds from back home, the process just looks unimaginative even if there’s nothing wrong with the players themselves.

We were sold that we were getting Theo Epstein but in reality we got J.P. Ricciardi.

 

[crump]

Hope these moves work out. Murray injury history and downward slide is concerning, but both the new goalies have played on bottom half defensive teams in the NHL over the last few years. Something needs to be said for support around them. I mean Jack Campbell tanked for a few months the last half of the season and still came out smelling rosie with a new contract from the Oilers. Leafs good defensive game covered for him and still finished with a great record.

I expect both new goalies to put up better numbers than their last few seasons, the key is getting one of them super hot in time for the playoffs.

 

[Nineteen67]

Not soon enough

Id rather discuss how bad they are vs how bad they’re going to be.

 

[kb]

Haha indeed. I'm accused of being a clone/alt of two guys who I've argued with so much, that they're the only two posters that I'm on mutual ignore with. I guess it's a sign of the times, you can criticize a number of things Dubas has done but as soon as you defend him for something, some people just lose their minds.

This place has gone so far downhill, I can only hope things get better once the games start but who knows.

Anyone who doesn't immediately criticize each and every move immediately is a 'Dubas homer'. It's a cult based on lack of reasoning and logic.

And the haters are far too blind to see their own biases at play - because they get their backs up and start pounding away furiously on their keyboard/keypad/etch-a-sketch to post something snarky.

 

[All Mod Cons]

I see your 95% and raise you 100%

Dubas already made trades involving 3 X ex-Soo Greyhound goalie Jack Campbell, Robin Lehhner and now Matt Murray that makes him batting 1000%, since there are currently only 3 NHL goalies with ties to he Soo.

Its just too bad really that none of the really good goalies in the NHL played in the SOO, or we might have better lower risk options available.

You do have to like the irony that an ex Soo GM Dubas, hires an ex-Soo coach Keefe, and ex-Soo Goalie coach Jon Elkin, who all worked together and failed together in the Soo with ex Soo goalie Matt Murray in net at the OHL level, that now the gang is all back together again, they believe its Leafs answer to playoff success at the NHL level, because the reason given past "familiarity" with the netminder for this attempted experiment.

Yes. He's more old boys club, that the supposed old boys club.

 

[kb]

It has been discussed before but understand that it's got to be over 95% of NHL players and personnel who have no connection whatsoever to the Soo. It's a crazy over-representation. If you've got pro and amateur scouting you've hired and believe in, that should never happen because the best player (or front office hire) available at any time has at least a 95% chance of not having a connection to the Soo Greyhound organization.

2 of Lou's first moves on the Island were to trade for Martin and sign Komarov. This is not something isolated to the Leafs. You tend to trust what you know.

 

[Tufted Titmouse]

I get the distinct feeling this thread will be locked if Matt Murray ends up doing well.